Ham

Then look at the stiffi's.. they started their organization, on the basis of the worst arrogance that had ever embodied the way.. didn't sit around and read their bibles and stuff for a few years.. "we've left Egypt, and WE've got the GOLD...." and it got worse.. "personal prophecy" and all.. embracing the austerity of momentus..

and the worst part is, this is where they start. It took the vicster a number of years to develop this kind of harshness in the organization. And where he failed, loy picked up the cause.. these guys are starting their their little organization at one of the worse levels of corruption in da way's history. The sowers grad kid.. after nine months of browbeating acknowledged he didn't like the rules, that it wasn't exactly a pleasurable experience, but somehow da "manogawd" is not to be questioned, but defended at all costs.. practically. I wonder about the other three..

Just when you thought the beast breathed its last breath.. there it is again.. Its not twi so much anymore, I don't think. Its its spawn.. organizations who embrace the same theology, arrogance, tiered organizational structure, practical methods of beating submission and subservience into the lower tier, unchallengeable authority for those on top, and the like. Particular beliefs do not really bother me. Its the other issues they inherited from the mother organization. And they think twi was a good thing, that just went "sour" when the "bad people" came along.. I think ANY organization, who produces trainees who sing the praises of a "great manogawd" who happens to be a under thirty year old, unmarried (probably still) inexperienced still sopping wet behind the ears KID.. qualifies as dangerous. They inherit the arrogance of vic I, that one can just read the bible, and PRESUME to be "God's Spokesman".. As far as the way itself, I think they are hobbled, damaged, and even if they repent in sack-cloth and ashes, likely will not recover.. so the discussion isn't so much about them any more, at least in my opinion. I think it is highly relevant addressing it's spawn.. using the same tools, trying to produce different results..

Just so I get the wording correct here.. he confronted the vicster, who was at the time rambling on about demanding accountability and putting "teeth" in the "love of god", vic I hissing about how the "love of god" doesn't work.. hafta do something drastic to people.. I don't think there is anybody left in that organization who would have an ounce of objectivity, at least as regards this little adventure in the swamp. I don't think there is a competent "body" or "church" to even work with here..

I can almost see him saying "I'll be stone cold dead before this happens again.." say whatever negative you would like about him.. he did confront gramps on putting some kind of austerity and accountability (teeth) into the love of God.. and what do you particular set of morons do..

And to the board.. the only one I'd remotely consider in your "support group" who I'd trust to launch any kind of inquiry.. is dead.. and you waited what.. about a month so he'd be cold in the ground, before you did your official ground breaking..

wowser.. maybe this existence is a cosmic five second "time out".. sheesh..we came from perfection.. and in any fundamental belief, this is true.. I watched my cat play with a small blue toy mouse today.. she would toss it, hide it.. and pretend to discover it anew in play.. maybe we are the same..

and.. the main reason I did not go through your "support group".. I don't think your aunt should have to relive this kind of bull crap..I will never bring matters to that.. though you might.. you're on your own fella..

So after the great "training".. you've got one "graduate" that's confused.. but still sold (somewhat) on your product.. 1. Didn't like the "rules" 2. Admits it wasn't "perfect" 3. Learned "something".. but cannot exactly verbalise what "it" is.. 4. Calls a largely unproven youth a "great man of god".. and doesn't really exactly know why.. that's twenty five percent of the results that we know, of your program.. of everything he posts.. the only thing he is really solid on.. he considers a young, unproven youth as a "great man of god". was that the entire aim of the "training"? well, just one more question to put in queue..

A "real" organization would have someone responsible to respond to this kind of public inquiry.. long before it got "out of hand".. now you've got hundreds of issues to address.. to show not to me, though that would be nice.. but to yourself.. that your organization is worth even a grain of salt..

And I'll add.. what is the sowers bylaws or ethics regarding sexual relations between staff and "students"..? is it ok for the spiritually "mature"? or is it another way for a "manogawd" to be able to "minister" to the group.. like gramps said, an area for a "manogawd" to "lighten up" in.. or is it.. what? Can you honestly say, "wrong on all counts"? or is that too much "legalism" to yoke a blood sucking sycophant with? Can you just say ANYTHING? Note: this is not an accusation. It is a question.. I would have much rather have preferred a discrete simple personal answer.. but now its long past that.. like the original question, what are you doing that is any bit different from the old "ministry".. These really should not be "hard questions".. if they are that hard.. I've made it easy.. try multiple choice.. I've made it as easy as it can possibly be.. If you don't like inquiry, you are in the wrong business, bub..

I've seen people "believe" for the "required donation" for pfal. Checked the checking account balance.. "miraculously" there was about a hundred and fifty extra bucks.. cashed out the $100 for the class.. and inside of two weeks, the couple of straggling checks made it to the bank.. kinda like "walking out on a limb" with "believing".. and sawing the limb off..

I couldn't agree more.. any good.. had absolutely NOTHING to do with him..

If you want crazy.. yep. Had I still been associated or affiliated with herr vey.. I doubt seriously my child would have survived.. we would have isolated ourselves from the rest of the "devilish" community.. and refused their love, help and blessing.. and waited in vain for "help" from the "one true househole" of herr vey.. and it likely.. never would have materialized.. very likely. we had bouts with treatments.. that this kid could not hold down any kind of hospital food. what does one do.. oh.. just "renew the mind".. that should do it.. hah.. the high school had a few activities to make a pizza fund.. sound weird? This kid on chemo.. couldn't handle consuming a bagel from the hospital cafetieria.. but she could readily eat the most spiciest pizza you could dream of..as long as it was not hospital food..so what do I do, argue? anybody through this kind of thing.. if one could find something the patient can hold down.. its almost a miracle.. I've posted all of this, by her permission, once..

yeah Frank.. and what a blessing he is.. same with my two kids.. one of them was inflicted with a dreadful disease.. but I still think her recovery was not less than miraculous. and it wasn't on a *way* schedule either.. it took a whole community of "believers" (not Way) for the miracle to occur..

the nice thing about this micropower kind of thing.. that's about what it takes to run cell phones and such.. calculators, other little modern conveniences.. Unless we develop renewable energy.. even if we do, within twenty years, I think people (especially in colder climates) will wear some kind of environmental body suits. The cost of heating ones immediate environment, vs. heating a whole house must be quite significant. No, they won't be "space suits".. special units will be fitted to pre-heat and humidify air for breathing, for some.. so they will use natural sources to fuel communication needs.. and along with led technology, very little power required for lighting.. anything that has energy "muscle" will be very localized. Well.. it's a thought, take it or leave it..

I may have been there.. I forget which year it was exactly, 95, 94.. must have been 95, I remember the rain. It rained so hard, we went out in the parking lot and rubbed soap on the car.. let the rain do the rest. Didn't need a car wash or anything..

ok.. as to his desire, I won't use the words. But does the word "sixty" ring a bell?

The real "miraculous" in my life happened about six years ago.. I went back to school.. who would have thought a profitable business would be driven into the ground by an absolutely asinine employer.. but somehow I saw this coming eight years ago. so I went ahead and started planning. I really don't want to open another shop, Nor did I want to end up working for a similar "numbnuts" employer. The choice at the time- part time education.. I was in a chemistry curriculum at a community college. Then I came to be in a position scholarships and Pell grants did not apply anymore. The labs for the chemistry classes were only one credit of education, but the "technology fees" were just too horrendous to consider continuing. So I gathered up my credits, and went to another university, a four year college.. and entered the math curriculum. all the while, the amount of business continued, probably to the chagrin of the employer, to justify keeping the shop open. Until this year. So.. in celebration of the inauguration of the new president, and *possible* new taxes.. he finally axed the electronics repair department. Fine. I continue school and graduate.. but nobody is hiring tv repair people at the moment.. Now.. I have barely enough unemployment payments to get me through until the fall. And in the fall.. I begin the graduate program. They are actually willing to PAY to teach me how to teach kids algebra.. and provide graduate level classes besides.. and I haven't even sat down for any kind of formal interview. So if I don't find suitable employment by then.. I have suitable employment.. and in two years, god willing.. I'll have a masters degree in math, if not in applied mathematics. Along with teaching skills.. And with *possible* returning veterans seeking better employment than what the market has to have without some kind of degree.. they will return to school.. where will they start.. ah. Community colleges. And who will be in great demand to teach Algebra, Discrete math, calculus.. differential equations.. I just hope I live long enough.. it should be fun..

Yeah.. that's crazy.. I've seen some things "happen".. but my experience.. if there isn't some kind of "grace" or something.. it just does not happen. And you can't put it on a schedule.. I don't think there's a single "law" or anything to rely on to make it happen either. I think we were sold a bill of goods..

I "believed" for it to rain once, in a very specific way.. this one character I worked with at the time was ranting on and on how's there's no God and all.. I say "no God, eh? how about if it rains as far as the eye can see, except for this little block around us.. and it actually happened.. a person could see the downpour of water the next block over.. and it was perfectly dry where we were at. The character quit mumbling about there not being a God, and started babbling something about witchcraft.. no, I did not invite him to twig. Just seemed inappropriate at the time to hang some kind of advertisement on it..

Now the greasespot "club".. the Greasespot justification for existence..is supposed to be to tell the other side of the story, the abuse, the insanity, the nuttiness.. That's the purpose, isn't it? we've already had the "initiation".. in the old ministry.. everybody was betrayed, in my opinion.. Greasespot is not too bad of a "club".. I jointed a squirrel haters club once. No kidding.. they had no sense of humor..

Part of it is just human nature.. in my opinion.. I think everybody wants to belong somewhere.. with the old organization.. I think we just found the wrong club. A pretty much useless, self-serving lot.. more so than the rest.. I belong to likely about half a dozen "clubs". Now at one point or another, they all could be characterized as being self-serving. The ham club performs public service. Of course it is altruistic and all, but if it does not receive some kind of response, or recognition.. however small, it would feel "slighted".. why? I think because those who enjoy the hobby would like people to know what the hobby is about, its usefulness, and possibly perpetuate the hobby itself. Individuals contribute to hopefully promote a greater good.. then there's the math "club". It is a smaller subset of the higher education club. Same reasoning.. it might be a living, but it must justify itself..is it self-serving? Yes, to some extent.. and there is an "initiation" of sorts. Same for the ham club.. whereas these two mentioned "clubs" perform a useful function in society, I don't see where twi does, or ever did. Some offshoots do a little better..

I was thinking something like that.. look what the "cult" life turned a college educated jock into in the old *ministry*.. a nutcase with delusions of grandeur.. and when defrocked, likely a diet of sedatives and anti-depressants that would stop a bull elephant.. that's partly what one of my questions referred to.. what are you going to do when it doesn't really "work"..