Ham

MAYBE have been a close estimate, I don't know.. what's it down to now? MAYBE 1500.. including the kids? twi isn't exactly talking.. probably embarrassing. Then.. how many even LISTEN to jl's little one-sided know it all monologues? A few here, and even most of them that I know of consider it "hooey". That's what makes it so pathetic.. he has repeatedly trolled greasepot, and any other "offshoot" he can get his foot in the door to try to rustle up a few more followers.. I would imagine they are at the few hundreds level, if even that. But they aren't saying exactly, either.

Sooo.. it's almost election time. I wonder what the "sewers" block vote will be.. probably a write-in for Bush/Cheney... sorry, I'm in such a good mood this morning, I think I'll go throw up from laughing too hard..

heheheheh.. somehow, the nuts found their way to the top.. look who the vicster put in charge.. and the last limb coordinator I had the "pleasure" to serve under.. the most intellectual and logical conversation we had was about how in da corps, he learned how to be careful as to not mix bread and vegetables in his diet.. so as to avert gastrointestinal disaster.. I'm really not joking here.. I think this was about the time I suspected things weren't exactly in a good kind of shape as I thought.. "Valley of human need"? I suppose he thought he was saving wayfers needless agony from ulcers, colitis.. etc.. with the "greatness" of what he learned at the feet of the "master"..

aww, excie.. you have friends.. :) at least I added you to my friends list.. I hope it means something..

Never thought of it that way.. makes sense. Some might, but most ladies I know wouldn't tolerate an "arrangement" like that. In fact, the fella would probably get the "bums rush", his belongings following behind him..

Part of the problem is vic's "it doesn't matter what you did in the past.. you can go as far and as fast as you want to with God.." of course in practical terms, I think that it set otherwise entirely unqualified neophytes over others in the church.. who could supply the right kind of schmoozing.. like the kid, who's dad was the agent who sold them the Indiana campus. I think he was ordained, less than six months after he graduated from the corps.. "dad" was filthy rich.. A neophyte, unmarried.. no real responsibilities in life other than to feed himself.. not saying he was a bad guy, just unqualified. The same kind of "standards" also allowed those who disqualifed themselves as elders through irrational hasty decisions and sexual immorality to stay in "office".. and to this day, loy would still be in some official capacity at the way, if not for the lawyers and courts and such. jl couldn't get the same respect, or employment as a "pastor" anywhere else in the WORLD, as he gets from "leadership", and a waning following at ces.. I'd put it to him as a dare.. find a strictly conservative LEGITIMATE non-trinitarian church- one that mostly agrees with way doctrine, that desperately needs a pastor.. turn on the charm, submit a resume.. even offer services for FREE.. within an hour, "thanks *mr* lynn, but no thanks.." I think the only thing jl left the old ministry with was the microphone, and a ready audience.. and I think that is slowly eroding into insignificance.. his little letter is pathetic.. "come on fellas.. give it one more try for the Gipper.."

I haven't met one yet. That is, anything except than a "pretender".. I've met and recognized a few pretty dark souls.. I wouldn't say they are possessed or anything..

and, one last post, and I'll rest a while.. I really really think.. he's got so many foul, dark, evil deeds done in secret invested in the old ministry, that he just CAN'T be objective. same for geer.. and some others.

One of their own "heroes", E.W. Bullinger, who was a trinitarian by the way.. he said something like "look for the devil, in the pulpit.." forget wars, all kinds of other stuff.. I partly agree.. lynn, schoenheit.. et.al.. they didn't leave twi with the "gold".. I think they just left with the microphone.. fortunately, the world doesn't seem to be beating a path to their door..

Debate is futile. This kind of character can make an obvious falehood sound like it is God's honest truth.. you cannot know from one moment to the next, whether he's telling the truth, or not.. and his retort would be.. "big T truth, or little t.." I think it extends way past the ordinary sinner, who tells "little white lies".. I really think we are dealing with some seriously disturbed, dark souls here..

I think that the organizations you reference are the subject of the highest form of intellectual contempt and snubbery by jl, js, and company.. in their minds, if you worship a triume God, you are an idolater.. and nothing PRACTICAL you do in life can be done to "redeem" yourself.. this philosophy is the kind of "gold" they dredged out of the old organization.. there are a few consequences to supposedly thinking one holds absolute truth.. and they can debate you in circles around scripture.. it's what they "do" for a living.. they THRIVE on controversy and debate.. and conveniently forget, cover up, or minimize past sexual "indescretions", and raging abuse.. of their own selves, and others- "practical" issues which apparently sits in the back seat, and "da word like it hasn't been known" sits next to the driver.. and debate is like trying to pin down water. Even a simple inquiry like "what results", and I've seen hem-hawing and spin that would make a politician blush..

I don't think he isn't aware of them as such, I think jl merely relegates their efforts as "second rate causes". I think he is still immersed in his "father in the word"'s opinion regarding "mainstream" christianity, that they simply have nothing significant to offer, for over 2000 years. Thinking one holds a package of "truth" like hasn't been known since the first century has produced some subtle and not so subtle kinds of arrogance and prejudice..

I remember vic going on a rant in the seventies about Graham and Bright.. almost like they were staging a "conspiracy" to water down what he considered the word of god.. interesting in hindsight to see who reall watered down some standards..

Stalked? I don't think that term is quite accurate or appropriate to the situation here.. I for one am not following him around, observing his habits.. seeing where he works, who he associates with..etc. etc.. If I understand you, I think you might be suggesting more that "his name is prominently mentioned", second only to the vicster. Just because the vicster is prominently mentioned here, one could not infer that he is being "stalked" either. Or P*n*rello, or Geer, or any other abusive numbnuts.. Remembered, yes. Stalked, no.

at least we know how to have fun.. Come to think of it, if I abused to the extent of his loyness, I wouldn't REALLY expect any different "standard". Or is he really THAT deluded.. I really think after the initial furor, he'd get a lot better treatment than he'd think.. foul mouthed? I'll say this as nicely as I can: "speak for yourself.."

Now.. consider, we have a character.. very "convincing".. and it is because HAD to "practice" LIES, to be convincing to that degree.. OR simply being able to "naturally" spout lies and falsehoods.. in such a convincing manner, unrehearsed.. either way, I wouldn't trust him with my spiritual life.. and this is a guy, who claims he holds "truth"..

I am beginning to think making that distinction is being a little too "generous".. Very convincing.. I wonder how many times he practiced this particular little spiel in front of a mirror.. and how many other spiels we are not even aware of..

And don't worry.. I think the dancing "prez" wouldn't profit, or be a member of the class, considering he administered the scheme.. seems something of this nature might actually break twi's back.. I'm pretty sure their insurance policy does not pay for documentable fraud..

lost wages due to participating for three years in a fraudulant work/study scheme.. might add up to quite a few shekels.. even at minimum wage levels of retribution.. it'd be what.. about $48,000 or so? times how many corps grads are there? I'd imagine the handful of current employees would choose to opt out..

It's like.. you paid, and in many cases served "hard time" to acquire the distinction of a "lifetime of christian service".. and then "sorry, we don't REALLY need ya.." it's not like getting a degree that a different prospective employer would consider on a resume.. da numbnuts now don't even want anything from many whom they trained.. even on a VOLUNTEER basis.. I wouldn't be a "happy camper"..

and considering that the "training" was unacredited, and was basically required and administered for in-house employment.. and that many of you guys were run off for no good reason.. when numbers were NOT yet dwindling, due to some documentable mismanagement.. I wonder if there is a class action legal remedy.. :)

Then.. I haven't seen a valid degree or "training" in chemistry, math, physics, destroy or ruin a profession as a physicist, chemist, mathmatician.. but a "degree" from a degree mill.. that's about the fastest way to NOT be noticed in a favorable manner from one's peers.. one may not actually KNOW that the paper in hand isn't worth any more than a few sheets of toilet paper..but it reeks of dishonesty.. whether one is honest or not. I know "corps" actually did some WORK. True.. it's not "fair".. I'd be disappointed if it were me..

and.. I think the big factor just might lie in where they actually did, or didn't get their formal or informal "training".. considering the cloud of doubt associated with twi ordination, if one would want to continue in da "ministry", they'd at least owe it to themselves to get some *real* training and legitimacy.. and avoid the embarrasing questions, as to credentials earned sitting at the feet of a lunatic.. or move on and do something else. Find a "real" calling. Something else useful, and legitimate.. many have.

maybe it's just getting some greatly needed exercise.. jumping up and down and shouting do go together, do they not?

Hmmm. I wonder what it is precisely, that they are thinking that they will save the country FROM. A new takeover? Or a depression worse than the 1930's? Maybe the emergence of a government that has an apetite for the profits and resources of 501c organizations who choose to sit on their hands.. but the new "programs".. why does this little, "low impact" "commitment" look like they are saddling the "faithful" up for a few more heavy-handed, almost forced commitments to come.. "Nice horsey.. just hold still.. it's no big deal at all.. EVERYBODY is wearing one.." You'd think "gawd's people" would get tired of being saddled up and herded like farm animals..