jardinero

***********INTERLOPER ALERT******************* Ugh! Gag, Ex! Carry on... J. ;)-->

Happy Birthday to the sweetest California Dove! Dovey, hope you have a wonderful day celebrating! Jardinero

Happy Birthday, dear sweet lady! Hope it's as special as you are! Love, J.

Love you, P! Happy, happy all week long!!!! :)--> J.

Hi AHAT! Happy birthday to you, sweet lady! Hope this year is a special one full of blessings and joy for you and the kiddos! Miss you! Jardinero

I love it! Let's do it! Looks like it has all the amenities anyone could want, plus beautiful hiking, fishing and recreational areas. Not much further than Tim's Ford either. It gets my vote. J.

Hi OE! Happy birthday! So glad your daughter was able to be with you from Japan. Hope you have a very wonderful time celebrating. Been great to get to know you in chat! Jardinero

Awwwwwww, you guys (gringo pal and hermano) are all so wonderful with all the beautiful wishes, balloons, flowers, warm thoughts and my very own jelly bean! Thank you for making my birthday so special. My dear friend came in from Cincinnati for the weekend and warmed my heart, have flowers from family and friends all over my house and really enjoyed my day. Thanks again for remembering me! Love to you all! J. :)-->

Hi Nika! It's almost spring! Hi Ex! Love to you too! Hola Tomas, the strange one! I voted, but just the thought of nose hairs grosses me out! Hi Rocky. See you in chat. Simon: Who's Jardinero? Pfffffffft! (BTW, it's pronounced "hardinero" like the j in "juan") O.K. I'm finished now. Back to lurking mode. J.

Did you all miss me? I've been gone for two weeks. I couldn't log in, but Paw just fixed it for me. Anyway, just thought I'd stop by and say hi. Hi! J.

(I thought it was funny, Ex) Me

Sharon was my WOW sister in 74 in Bethlehem, PA. She's from Overland Park, KS and may live near her family there. J.

Hi Johnny: J. Hobbs is remarried and lives with hubby and kids in upstate NY on a farm. Doing great. Very, very happy. J.

Yeah, we're still waiting for pics of Simon's! J. ;)-->

Don't know who the girl might be. Shawn Plunkett? Son of Jim and Marjorie? I thought they lived in Michigan after they left Rome City? Have never heard of Shawn since I've been here, but then I'm not involved with any of the ex-twi folks here either. Sorry I can't be of more help. J.

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Actually, Krys, I disagree. In my opinion, it's VERY appropriate for Early to express those types of opinions on this thread. They are some of the very reasons I would not contribute. Mrs. W. had opportunities prior to the onset of her illness to speak up publicly against the things she knew were going on, but chose not to do so. Many women have been in similar situations over the years and either had the courage to take action and change their situation or chose to continue in the lifestyle in which they had become accustomed and "not rock the boat". Many of us had the courage to speak up over the years of the wrongdoings that were going on in twi - - who were far more removed from the action than she was - - at some great personal cost. While I sympathize with the situation that the Wierwille family has had to deal with and the organization with which it has to deal, my heart also goes out to the thousands of retiring age folks who lost money at the hands of the bad accounting deals of Enron and others and find themselves in great financial need also and disadvantaged families who have little financially. The fact that the organization is corrupt, it's founder was corrupt and now people expect a corrupt organization to honor an agreement - - is in my mind totally ludicrous! The Wierwille family for the most part seem to be able to make decisions about the care of their mother just like many of us do for our own relatives. I wish them well in that endeavor. If people care to contribute to her care, that's their personal business, but after the thousands of dollars I've contributed to a corrupt organization over the years, I prefer to give my small contributions to people I know or local organizations with good governance who publicly report how the money is spent. J.

Wow! for someone a half a century old, you look GREAT! Happiest of birthdays to one wonderful guy! Thanks for the great heart you share with all of us here in the cafe, Goey! Enjoy! Jardinero

I think it's just out of habit, Dovey. Early: good comparison to Catholicism That's how my family was with religion. They're Mexican and you were just "supposed to be Catholic" - - but I doubt that many of them could actually explain a doctrinal tenet of the church. I do think that's how many of the folks who were non-Corps and attended nice little twigs far away from HQ were. They had no clue what was really being advocated. It was actually a Jewish friend we grew up with who challenged my thinking. She knew more about what we were supposed to believe than we did and would ask "you really believe that???". Upon reflection, the answer was no and I subsequently stopped attending that church. J.

Yes, I've known Bob and family for 30 yrs. Was in the Corps with them also. Nice family, although I might add, they are VERY dedicated Geerites and and other leaders who were in their area previously (P*w*ells and P*tst*nes) might have a different opinion about how "nice" he is. J.

Ah! Chivalry alive and well in Nebraska. Gotta love those "old" guys! ;)--> J.

Thanks, Dot. About the teacher and the 11 yr. old boy. I just read where it was her husband who alerted the authorities. He and his wife (the teacher) were in a counseling session when she related to the counselor that she "had feelings" for a 12 yr. old boy whom she had kissed. Good for him for having the courage to report the incident to the authorities! J.

Why Some People Don't Get the Abuse Stories I'm going to tell you a personal story and maybe this will help you relate. I was raised in an alcoholic family. I am the youngest of 3 girls. My father was very violent with my mother and my sisters and I from my very first memory of my family life. Numerous times, my mother had to call the police to protect us. My father would go on drunken tirades in the middle of the night and pull us out of bed and beat us, punch us, pull our hair, whip my oldest sister. But as in many abuse situations, the silent rule of "don't ever talk about it" dominated our lives. Our neighbors, friends and extended family didn't even know what was happening in our private little hell. I recently went to the 75th birthday party for our closest neighbor across the street. She and her husband had no idea what was going on at our house for years and when they finally found out, years later, they were in such disbelief, because my dad was like Dr. Jeckell and Mr. Hyde. During the day, he was the most wonderful, congenial person you'd ever want to meet. At night after he got home, he drank himself into a stupor and became increasingly violdent. My folks got divorced when I was 8. My father remarried and when I started high school, he got custody of us. He started beating up on his 2nd wife even before they got married, but she hoped she could change him. Well, the violence only got worse as we got older. I started standing up to him and fighting back and running away from home. At the time, I went to a nice, catholic high school. I was a good student and popular with my classmates and my teachers. And guess who became the president of the Parent's Association my last 2 years of high school???? My father. He was a great fundraiser and everyone loved him, but no one knew the dark secrets of what went on in our home at night. I'd go to school with bruises or so exhausted after being up all night listening to his tirades. And you know what???? I could never tell my friends what was going on. Well, I tried, but guess what???? They couldn't even begin to imagine what I was talking about. And neither could they believe it. It wasn't until my Senior year and my father tried to kill me one night. I finally wrestled myself free and ran over to a neighbor's house and called the police. I had just turned 18 and could legally press charges, which I did and had him put in jail. Next morning, I had to go to school to take midterms, which I was in no shape to take, so went to the Dean and Principal to tell them what happened. Guess what??? They couldn't begin to believe my story, until I took off my jacket and showed them the bruises and finger marks around my neck. I moved out and lived happily ever after except for a 16 year stint in a cult. ;)--> But my point for sharing this is that, back in the 50s, 60s and early 70s, abuse and domestic violence wasn't talked about. My mother was shamed and shunned when people found out what was going on, as though she had brought it on herself. My sister's nuns forbid her from speaking about my father when she said that's where her bruises came from. Our friends thought we just had vivid imaginations and wanted attention or something. Middle class families just didn't have these kind of problems. We were always made to feel like WE were the problem, cuz surely a nice man like my dad, a successful business man, a practicing Catholic, president of the Parent's Association at a Catholic school - - - couldn't possibly be a violent drunk and beat his wives and daughters. So I understand why some of you have a hard time dealing with the stuff that went on in TWI. The denial and discounting of the reality of what happened is a very normal reaction. It's just the wrong reaction. Jardinero

Oh geez, you guys - - come on!!!! It wasn't just VPW and LCM - - it was other leaders (BOT) and region and limb guys & gals too!!!! A one time indiscretion or succumbing to temptation is one thing - - but this went on for YEARS, with MULTIPLE seductions, rapes, and other very inappropriate behavior. They put THEMSELVES in compromising situations because THAT IS WHAT THEY WANTED!!! Plain and simple. It ain't that hard, folks if you have your eyes open! And none of these guys or others who knew what was going on, had the balls to set up an accountability system!!!!! Why? you would ask???? Because they had NO INTENTION of stopping. You got that???? This was deliberate, willful, planned actions. MULTIPLE TIMES. MULTIPLE OCCURRENCES. MANY LEADERS. Many women used. You know in the secular world - - and I'm not even talking religious organizations here. You cross that line and you're FIRED. No questions asked. It's stated in employee handbooks about sexual harrassment, etc. I did marketing for years as a female in male dominated industries and had to entertain clients. You'd better believe there were guys that wanted a piece of a**. And you know what??? I represented my company and had to draw very clear demarcations for these guys. This is business fellas. Period. No compromise. Don't even go there. End of subject. You just make it perfectly clear it's not even an option. And if they don't understand "no", you just remove yourself from the situation. Most of the time you would never even allow yourself to be one on one alone anywhere. Always in public. Always above board. Business is business. And let me tell you, even when there is a case of sexual harrassment (or when a manager crosses a line with a subordinate) - - you better believe it is taken VERY SERIOUSLY. It is dealt with quickly and severely. But that is because the violated people finally have been given a voice. A few brave souls came forward and refused to be swept under the rug and took these cases to court and gave others the courage to tell their stories too. And finally, the U.S. government and Corporate America had to make LAWS to protect people in the workplace - - not because it never happened - - - - BUT BECAUSE IT WAS HAPPENING SO MUCH!!!!! But, oh no. No accountability in TWI. At 18, after just getting in the Word, I had a Limb Leader come over to talk to me about going WOW. He was very inappropriate and talked very graphicly sexually about what he liked about my body. He was married with a child, too. I told him flat out I wasn't interested in talking like that and asked him to leave. He was finally removed as the Limb Leader after numerous liaisons with females in his limb - - and another guy was sent in to clean up all the messes!!!!! As a single, female twig leader, I had single guys in my twig and in my area. You know what???? We never crossed that line. I didn't date them (with the exception of my boyfriend who I dated before I got in the Word), didn't come on to them and if they were coming on to me, I got it right back on topic. Don't even go there, pal. So you guys are trying to tell me a "clergyman" who's been around a "ministry" for a lot of years, can't make that kinda judgment call???? Makes you wonder what the hell kinda mininstry they had going, huh???? And why there was never any clearly stated disciplinary policies written up for "leaders" who crossed that line - - like most other organizations outside TWI have. All of this stuff was shrouded in secrecy - - BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THEY GOT AWAY WITH IT!!!!!! This is not rocket science, OM and others. You guys want to perpetuate your Way fantasy. Yeah, well I had a great twig too. Wonderful people. I thought VP was a nice guy too at the beginning. I loved learning about the Bible. But I heard about these sexual stories far too frequently for my liking. And if the Internet had been around in the 70s, well your fantasy world would have come crashing down all the sooner. You can discount the truth all you want and try to perpetuate stereotypical crap like "these girls really wanted it" and let your MOGs off the hook, but there's just too much evidence to the contrary. With the Internet, we've hit critical mass - - too much to discount anymore. So you can keep your nice warm, fuzzy memories and go back in your turtle shells like the truth doesn't really exist, but it won't change the truth. This **** happened from the 1970s and for decades after and was too widespread to refute any longer. These guys had opportunities to change, to come clean, to repent, to set up accountability structures - - over a period of decades when they were confronted - - - and the truth of the matter is, THEY DID NOT CHOOSE TO. They continued to hide their sinful behavior and the boys club and the party lifestyle continued, leaving shattered lives in their wake. So if our government has laws to protect victims, don't you think, in the very least, our religious leaders would take these type of horrible things seriously????? The children of men are wiser than the sons of God. Dot, Excathedra, Sunny, and others - - you are very brave to tell your stories. I pray for your healing and that your stories can help others who have been hurt to sort out their own lives and confusion from what occurred. Jardinero

Querido Tomas: Well, I'd sing "las mananitas" for you if you were within shoutin' distance, but since you aren't, I'll just wish you "feliz cumpleaños y much mas". Have a margarita today instead of a snowcone to celebrate! ;)--> Love you, Strange One! J. P.S. Awesome news today about your mom! Praise God!