sky4it

Raf: your comment: Mike: "PFAL is God-breathed." Wierwille: "No, it's not." Who you gonna believe? Good point Raf. Even Herr Dockter knew the acceptable speed limits of his steps.

Mike : Your comment: Remember, he says sincerity is good four times there, but Your but,, negates the fact that it is good at all. Futhermore this is not what scripture teaches. In Corinthians it talks about sincerity... the leaven to be mixed with the word. thus the argument is without sincerity you cannot be, (in your own vernacular) a master of the word at all. Thus sincerity is the majic ingredient to be mixed with the word to "rightly divide the word of God. Also when he says it is good, what does he say it is good for? In deed, he left it good for nothing. For if sincerity was good, why didnt he say what good it brought? This point precisely highlights the deceptiveness of the teaching of VPW, for his pupils gave him credit for being "sincere", yet he and his followers didnt want anyone engaging in there own sincerity. For if he could minimize (and thats precisely what he did) peoples quest and journey with God through a sincere desire to know the truth, control would follow quite emphantically. It left no openendedness with each individual believer in pursuit of God. your comment: Does this make you wonder how many other things you forgot or distorted in your memory from so long ago? It should. No Mike it does not, for I forgot nothing and distorted nothing. You know Mike, I take offense to the fact that you are telling me "I distorted something in my memory." This is precisely the type of mind games he and people in this ministry played when they preyed on people with this garbage. Actually, I glorify God that my season with this stuff was short. Furthermore Mike by VPW own biblically accurate standards, some of the epistles like Phillipians were addressed "to all the saints at Phillipi with the bishops and deacons, etc. Where does it say it was addressed to "other churches" as in us? By VPW own standard of omission and inclusions, one would have to toss this epistle out and others also. But VPW could always fit a square peg in a round hole by glossing over his own standards when it was convient, and thus included all the epistles as "to us" and demeaned the gospels. Furthermore he uses the epistle of Peter to circumcise the writings of Paul, with the "no private interpetation stuff" But wait a minute Peter was a minister of the circumcision so his letters werent written by VPW's own logic to the church at all? Nope Mike this is a real high wire act that never did cut mustard, because it never had any mustard as in sincerity for individuals lifes.

Mike: Im curious as to just what the attraction is. My problem with this stuff as I stated in prev posts, is there is serious error with this stuff at the core of what vpw said. His statement " sincerity is no guarantee for truth" is just plain false and anti scriptural. Sincerity, Paul pointed out , is the leaven to be mixed with the word. In addition, the dispensationalism of VPW, demeaned the teachings of Jesus, as pointed out by another guy on another thread. You know Mike, we are not called to be masters of pfal doctrine, but followers of the master Jesus Christ. The focus here is not right.

there were of course a few catch phrases descibing a certain place: "cast them into the outer darkness where there shall be weeping and nashing of teeth" unt, "where there worm dieth not and there fire is not quenched" A good imagination will suffice.

lindy your commment; If something is everything, it can also be said that it is nothing. You lost me lindy. So if there is awareness then awareness can be said to unaware also. Fleeting logic.

John said "these things were written so that u might know him that is true." Weirwelle's plan as evan rightly pointed out was to disregard the teachings of Jesus or put them in a non-applicable status. This was the error. you cannot omit them and come up with the grace administration. Furthermore, the point of all the writings is to "know him that is true." There is no other point. I think Evan has made an excellent point.

song: thank you for the reply. I agree with you about the humor aspect and that God can take that. At some point tho, I had thought that it had become personal, that is, that you were ridiculing me. I understand your sense of humor and poetic style. If you thought my posts were condescending I apologize also. It is just that I do enjoy the discussions here at GS and how people dig in on there point of view. This is very challenging. I will certainly try and be more understanding of your peotic affable style and less stoic and rigid in my view of it. Perhaps and I think thats what it was. Anyways rock on song.

song: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The skinny is this. I think we need to let God know that we appreciate him as his role as God -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- is this like a secret message ~~~ like a surprise party .... shhh i have the helium and balloons and confetti AND GOD SAYS OH MY GOD SURPRISE!!! and thats just like you isnt it song, to throw around your sarcasm everywhere and then run away like your the pie surprise. And then you accuse me of bullying? This is what you do when I post, you come around throw your crap. Oh, guess what, I changed my mind, the "WE" is more approbriate, Ive got a parrot on my shoulder. If you dont have anything positive or challenging to say, I'd rather youd just shut your mouth. Personally, I dont care about what you say anyway.

song: your comment: hey sky4it ya found some one ya can bully around!&? Ya took the PFAL years ago according the profile you answered~~~ obviously your years ago still require a signature the green card~~~ and then I may be wrong such a presumption~~~ well?! well gee song, I said I was sorry to radar, what do you want an apology too. Nope aint gonna do it to you. Thats been my mannerisms right song? Bullying people around. Think maybe you should say your sorry for indicating that? Well that'll be a cold one huh song. Your the cynic and it dont bother me about old twi doctrine, but does it have to belittle God also? At least thats the impression i get some times. So quit putting your little tattoo isms on me. Gee, If I aint welcome here song, why dont you just say so.

alfakat: sky -- you are misreading ror. She KNOWS there is more to Christ than vicenstein's take on it...duh!! Where did she say OTHERWISE. Quote, please. That is why she cannot figure out what the h you are referring to .... and neither can anybody else.... I apologize. perhaps I read somebody elses quote and attributed it to radar. Sorry radar.

radar: i dont really understand what your asking i guess. Except to say no man is the Walmart for the truth, at least in my eyes :D-->

song: oh great and powerful song, you are about to post your number 2000, remember me when thou comest into thy 2000th post, with an answer to my post. The great and powerful song is about to speak: Are they freindly spirits? friendly just listen: drum roll:::::::::::::::::::::::::::

radar: your stuff: sKY4IT, Help me out here! I don't understand what you are talking about. I am not much of a researcher, I don't quote scripture and I am lost!!! Radar Help you out with what? That there is more to the teachings of Christ than the mission of VPW? I read your post that your not associated with that one group. As far as Christianity? Get on your pony and ride the horse. God gives us what we need to know and when we do what we know we get more to know. Thats about all I know. What do you know to do today? chew it do it and gitty up.

song: your comment: Mercy is the withholding of merited condemnation. That's was Jesus thinks, what do you think?" I have already told you what I think. Answer your own question song, what do you think? And your other post, about forgiving God for making the Devil. Whats with that? New theology from the first church of the cynic? Why dont u square yourself?

Radar: Sky4it, What do you mean? Radar; With all due respect, to adhere to old TWI doctrine is "chilling." Simply that, that, the Research method of Christianity, as the "resource" for enlightenment is chilling , cold, mundane. This opposed to the guide the Holy Spirit.

Radar; With all due respect, to adhere to old TWI doctrine is "chilling."

song: you lost me? say what?

Galen: Yah know you have a well developed conscience, and a seemingly great love for the Lord. When you were talking about having fellowship , like it used to be, on another thread, I see where you were going with that now. Its true Galen, that there arent a lot of high times and meaningful fellowship in any Christian org anymore (IMO). Anyways, Praise the Lord. U sound really healthy.

excath and song: What is CCF? They sure look doctrinally like a way spinoff?

rascal: I agree with your comments oh rascal, I was just trying to point out that most people dont like confrontation in any form. Certainly you are right that TWI's dealing with confrontation was wacko, where others are a little more civil about it.

The absence of reason is unreasonable. The absence of God is an "unreasonable chatic mess" called darkness God is bigger than reasonable conclusions because not everything can be known. Therefore it is impossible to reason away God. (Agnostics agree to this.) Unreasonable conclusions can be either ignorant or willful. The fact that the things of God can be known makes ignorance willing. God is therefore just in judging man according to what he "knows" or "ought to know."

oldies and rascal: The difference between denominations and TWI was highlighted in the fact that TWI felt they had a corner on the "truth" and others were by the way side. Church organizations arent threatened by others beliefs as profoundly as TWI was. This is why TWI was dominating and controlling in there approach. Oldies does have a valid point tho, rascal. If you disagree with many (not all) viewpoints of some churches they do have a tendency to view you as a trouble maker. I dont think however, that they whip themselves into a controlling frenzy like TWI leadership did. Its a difference of extremes.

Galen: I enjoyed your post. What I meant by jealousy sex, is where the innocent party goes out and has sex to "get even." I actually have seen this in two cases. One party was unchurched the other party was squarely in the church. Then they go back and live together. I do think the law touches on the subject somewhat also. It might be helpful to look at the principle of "stoning the offenders" , more as a concept that this is kinda what happens. When the dirty laundry gets aired out, there are stones flying from people not a few. I think Galen, its the only issue that contemplates the termination of a marriage. About that i am convinced. I have heard pastors argue many other reasons, but I think they are without virtue. I think in cases of abuse, the bible contemplates seperation. Of course abusers typically find themselves in adultry anyway. your comment: You mean as a beleiver who now goes out and commits adultry? Okay I would think that the proper thing to do would be to confess such to the husband or father of the girl. I do think in marriage the offending party for restitution must tell there spouse tho.

The believing = receiving and fear is negative believing theology of TWI, had curious parallels with Oral Roberts seed faith and the name it and claim it theologists of the time. Curiously some of this exists today with some televangelists who ask you to send your 50 buck seed money. TWI had to massacre the book of Job to get it done. None of this ever takes into account, "you ask that you may consume it upon your lusts." Needs that aren't scrutinized with the cross, can become consumption of your lusts. This is why TWI never loved the cross. The crux of Christianity will always be the simplicity of the cross. IMO, one of the most successful Christian lives of our time, Sadhu Sundhar Sing, had a fully incorporated sense of the cross, so much so that he said the 'cross' was his greatest instrument of life.

rascal: your stuff: It is possible to dislike something intensly, and still not be miserable..... yea rascal, its called managed anger, co-dependent no more. I think its also called maturity. You've become a "grown up" just like Twi always said you would be. Unfortunately for them, it is without them. I think TWI should have an "exit class" for those in doubt. "How not to hate what you did to us no more" I once used an oxymoron to describe my assembly experience. I went to this "Christian name omitted" to be come "dehabilitated." I think we have found what our fathers warned us of the "Jesus movement" to be true. That is namely, that corrupt people do corrupt things and corruption wasnt limited to them only.