skyrider

..."over a thousand people participated in the anniversary celebration"....

So....after 62 years, with some 350 staff (??)in the seats, the auditorium was still only two-thirds full???

Doesn't sound like much to crow about? :D-->

skyrider

Growing up playing sports, we used to have a word for someone who took credit for others' hard-earned accomplishments........glory-grabber.

A glory-grabber was a fraud. He was a thief. He stole the spotlight, because otherwise he rarily was in it.

whenever twi boasts that they "taught me the word"......... I am reminded of my youthful teammates who called a spade, a spade. Hence....a glory-grabber. It was a detestable label and one that was hard to shake.

By sleight of hand, twi endeavors to interchange terms to mean something quite different. I guess it wouldn't work very well if they said, "Stand with the ministry that taught you pfal." SO.....?????

Besides.....who taught me "the word?" And, why is it in the PAST TENSE?

I learned truth from my church, my parents, my siblings, my friends, my classmates, my college buddies, etc. etc.

I also think that I'm still LEARNING THE WORD OF TRUTH.

So, twi.......you can spout your little cliches till you're blue in the face. To me, you are a "glory-grabber."

And, if that isn't enough.....let's all sing, To God be the glory great things He hath done, so loved He the world that He gave us His son.....

:D--> :D--> :D-->

skyrider

quote:

---

Originally posted by Catcup:

They don't mourn the loss of the person, they mourn the loss of their value--

Bottom line.........

They mourn the loss of your MONEY.

---

And, it probably dawned on twi's bod that they also lost the parents' children.......the next generation.

And, the generation after that....infinitum.

And, to estimate the approximate value of this lost MONEY has the bod yelling and cussin' up a storm.

:D--> :D--> :D-->

skyrider

It's been about 30 years ago, but I don't remember that little green card stating:

Makes life meaningful............but twi owns you.

Increases prosperity.............but you owe it to us.

Separates truth from error.......but you need to always stand with us.

Establishes harmony in home......but you must be in our household.

Eliminates fear..................but you shall fear if you leave us.

Enables good health..............but you will die if you leave twi.

Can't remember the others....... :P-->

skyrider

quote:

---

In my opinion God used the Internet to bridge that gap and stop the hurt and broken heartedness and to reveal the truth about the darker side of TWI.

Now people could instantly have a place for healing, sharing their hurt, and discussing alternative belief systems, with a choice of other groups they could belong to if they chose, including some awesome mainstream denominations that put TWI to shame.

Today it is all but painless to leave TWI. It is easier than it has even been. In fact once a person leaves they find it is easier to stay in touch and reconnect with wondereful believers and friends from all over the world once again.

---

igotout,

Thank you for your post. I totally agree.

I exited twi before waydale was born, and it was a little tough going at first. But now....there is SO MUCH ACCESS instantly.

It has been exciting to reconnect with friends and corps buddies who left decades ago! :)-->

Now, away from twi, life is so liberating!

Riding the skyways of life,

skyrider

'Stealing people' .........I still find that accusation to be far outside the framework of Christianity, the One Body working together with Christ as the head. Perhaps, because it is.

At best, it sounds like twi's bod is approaching it like a business.....where a competitor moves in and the customers find the products there better. And, this "forces" changes in the old company policy, pricing, and service.

And we all know how twi hates CHANGE. The encrusted policies of the first two mogs are hard to shake.....or rattle.....or roll.

And at worst, twi is raising its head as the cornfield cult that many believe it to be.

:D--> :D--> :D-->

skyrider

Stealing people, really??

Could they be a little more specific?

Could they be a little more honest?

Isn't scumbag a first cousin to numb-nuts? :P-->

Isn't hose-bag slang for hoser? :D-->

skyrider

To even voice such an accusation as "stealing people" speaks volumes of twi's top echelon. And, to say it in public gives way to a mindset...and an agenda.

People are treated like property, like slaves.

If it quacks like a cult......

skyrider

On another thread, a former corps guy stated that twi's BOD is accusing former leaders and offshoot ministries of "stealing people" from them (twi). Excuse me?

Does twi OWN THE RIGHTS to these people?

Does twi HAVE SOLE OWNERSHIP of these peoples' choices?

Does twi THINK AND SPEAK for these people?

How arrogant! Sounds like lcm ramblings back in 1989-91 when he accused Geerr and others of stealing from twi's fold. Sheeesh.

Ole vic, in piffle, talked about "my people" as if they were HIS students, HIS congregants, HIS faithful. Looks like his legacy lives on. :D-->

And one more thing........if twi is so frickking PREVAILING, then why can't they go out and "prevail" with new attendees??

skyrider

quote:

---

Wierwille is quoted in the book as saying that the board was not set up to argue with him, but to support him.

---

In other words.....vpw couldn't stand having others around who might overpower his decisions. So, he got his brother and found a lumberyard man/carpenter from Kentucky and rubber-stamped his own yes men!!!

And some wonder why vpw's organization never succeeded into the next generation? :D--> :D--> :D-->

skyrider

quote:

---

Originally posted by Oakspear:

Who makes the decisions that underlie all of The Way International’s doctrines and practices? The Board of Directors.

What gives the Board of Directors the authority to make those decisions? The fact that they are the Board of Directors, the implication being that somehow God is behind their appointment and backs up their pronouncements.

---

In the scheme of things........vpw set up twi on a weak foundation that had no accountability. Ole vp came out of the church setup and didn't want any Board telling him how to run things....thus, twi's bot birthright was conceived. -->

No accountability over the money spent. No setup for handling grievances or injustices or sexual harrassment.

No elders at the gate who would hear BOTH SIDES of the argument. Heck, even in the OT these provisions were stated. Isn't it something that ole vp could be SO WISE on the indepth truths of scripture and SO FOOLISH on the practicality of everyday living. :P--> :P-->

Maybe that's why some call him slick vic. :D-->

And, if the founder is off-kilter.....the organization doesn't have a chance.

skyrider

I exited twi many years ago.....and have been distancing myself from them ever since. :D-->

But......in the rare moment that one of those lines (twisted to mirror twi's self-interests) enters my mind, I uproot it like a dandelion. And, for me.....I remind myself that twi's indoctrination STARTED in pfal.

Remember....just write The Teacher.

What a crock of arrogance!!! What a sleight of hand trick used by vpw.

So many of those one-liners were TWEAKED ever-so-slightly to give a jaded message. Having encountered MANY wholesome Christian bible study groups in the past few years, I more clearly see how they contrast with twi's distortion of truth.

I chucked ALL my corps notes in the trash many years ago........and have been LIVING FINE without them. :D--> :P--> :D-->

skyrider

quote:

---

I agree Radar, I never heard a word. As for the basement living....interesting wasn't it!

---

While we're on the subject of this basement living......what WAS the reason given for these two "reformed" lesbians living in Rosalie's house?

Does anyone remember? Or was it one of those things where it was "none of your business" situations?

Knowing how Rosalie guarded her privacy at all costs, it always struck me as strange that she opened up her house at about the same time that lcm went on his homo purge. I seriously doubt that rosalie needed rent money to defray her costs.

skyrider

Catcup,

quote:

---

No one bothers to mention how to make ammends to the people he screwed, literally and figuratively.

It's better to forget about them, ignore they even existed. Because if the BOD even ONCE acknowleged publicly that they were in error regarding the people they publicly defamed and privately devastated, and financially ruined, it would open up a superhighway for a class-action lawsuit.

---

You are so right!

Well, they may never publicly acknowledge it......but I think that there are times when howard and rosie and donna and others hang their heads in shame. Not for long, mind you....just at certain "weak" moments.

But to forfeit one's righteous living and spiritual integrity for a pittance of twi perks is folly.

God's justice will prevail.

skyrider

quote:

---

If it's just the members of the bod, I would say they are fairly "comfortable" without having to "Go, Stand and Speak", if you know what I mean.

---

Rosalie and Donna are more comfortable with..... "Go, Shop and Spend" at all the stores in this life.

skyrider

Not only were these screaming meetings unnecessary.....in MANY cases, martindale was vehemently ousting someone TO COVER HIS OWN foot.

Years later, I heard several accounts of the other side of the story. Martindale's sexcapades in gunnison were about to be exposed ---- thus he went into action and ousted some leaders. Or, several know about his 1998 Adv Class sexual assault on a corps guy's wife..... and some get mark/avoid.

Martindale LABELED people as possessed to cover his own foot. Once labeled, all avenues of warning other followers was shut off. Once labeled, martindale could have his way.

Since lcm "taught" twi followers his class "defeating the adversary" and the full disecting of major groups in the adv class, most complied with ANYTHING martindale said on the subject of devil spirits. He ran rough-shod over anyone and everyone. After all, he was "the authority" on how devil spirits operated!!!

And he should know!

He is known by many as.......DANCES WITH DEVIL SPIRITS (in tights) :D-->

skyrider

Kevlar2000,

I agree with you. :)-->

It should have been a massive red flag warning to NOT see lots of successful, satisfied grads standing alongside vpw. Only a handful...... and most were on the payroll.

Now, in the ranks of twi ...........there are scores of OLD, satisfied grads at hq. Are they successful? Doubt it. Are they on twi's payroll? Youbetcha. :D-->

Should send up another MASSIVE RED FLAG WARNING, shouldn't it?

skyrider

Most significantly, since 1990....... I must have sat thru 30 corps meetings where LCM named specific daimon devil spirits that inhabited some corps leader who left or was "ousted" by martindale himself. The corps coordinator at gunnison was "a highlighted example" of martindale's scathing remarks. Another man, a project manager overseeing the corps chalet addition, was another that fell prey to lcm's character (and devil spirit) assassination on a corps hook-up.

Many other vivid slanderings come to mind...... all rubber-stamped by martindale's spiritual perception and awareness. He was judge, jury and media reporter all wrapped in one. He had the final say...... and to try and hear the other side of what happened, was NOT an option (unless one wanted a quick, confrontational exit from twi).

BUT NOW THAT MARTINDALE HAS BEEN STRIPPED OF HIS CORPS AND CLERGY STATUS AND OUSTED FROM TWI STAFF...... does the current bod label him devil-possessed? The 2nd president of twi goes down in flames in a landscape of adultery and doctrinal perverseness and divisiveness and what happens?????? The bod remains cold, deathly silent --- for 4 storm-tossed years!

Why? Could it be that they are trying to hold back an avalanche of lawsuits against twi?

Could it be that twi's bod KNOW the scores of victims of martindale's predatory ways?

Could it be that rosie and donna and linder and others KNOW the legion of lies that have been told to prop up martindale as some "great one" so that followers keep sending in their "indulgences" at the level of 15%, at least?

Silence is "golden"............ but my eyes still see. :D-->

skyrider

And, when some of us youngsters came to twi..... there were very FEW old people in the ranks. With young and crazy and wild exuberance everywhere, we had the zeal to see the power of God in action.

Nowadays, there are just too many "know-it-alls" (50 year olds) and very little youth. Too much bureacracy, too much legalism.

Twi is dying of old age. :D-->

skyrider

So, with all these lawsuits...... has the DAMAGE CONTROL DEPARTMENT moved next to the Trunk Dept?

Or, do they just daily meet in the conference room next to harve's office?

skyrider

ex10,

Seems like this group of pfal waybrainers refuse to acknowledge the truth in Acts 17:11 ..

"...they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

But then again...it's not all that uncommon for pfal waybrainers to disregard the scriptures for a pittance of pitiful platitudes. -->

skyrider

igotout,

Thanks for posting these links.

Those who are EXITING twi need this type of confirmation. It just puts more exclamation marks behind their reasons for leaving.

Yep......I know families who, in the past month, escaped from wayworld.

skyrider

igotout,

check private topics.

thanks for posting your insight.

skyrider