skyrider

Was Zacharias praying (desiring with mental assent) to have a son.....knowing that he and his wife were well stricken in years? And then, when Gabriel came and told him what was going to come to pass he DID NOT BELIEVE (he says, "Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years).

The vpw doctrine on "believing is a law" is flawed. Time and time again, vpw would follow up this statement by comparing "the law of believing" with "the law of gravity."

Then, this "mental assent" was instituted as an explanation to why believing wasn't 100% assured. If what you were believing for didn't come to pass, you were mentally assenting.

This doctrine got so ridiculous that "believers" were "believing" for parking spots, green traffic lights, first in line at mcdonalds, etc. etc.

To some, "believing" is wishing.

On vpw's epitaph, he notes...."I wish I were the man I know to be."

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Doesn't confirm his "glorified" stature much? ;)-->

skyrider

For those who've extensively studied this area, this is nothing new.

But for those who've recently exited twi and are still steeped in waybrain, it shows how the pfal class used "selective scripturing" [also known as private interpretation] and therefore was tainted in its approach.

Luke 1:5-20

Zacharius wanted a son and his prayer was heard. Yet, when Gabriel told him of what was to follow......Zacharius did not believe.

Verse 20 ......because thou (Zacharius) believest not my words which shall be fulfilled in their season.

Even though Zacharius did NOT BELIEVE.....it still was going to come to pass.

Thank God for His infinite wisdom and foresight.

skyrider

So, twi is making the bi-annual "pilgrimage" to Dallas.......again?

This has got to be the 5th or 6th time.....right? What gives? Since Bill Grxxnx got shipped off to Atlanta, can't anyone at twi step in and handle some conference negotiations?

Actually......IMO twi has settled on this location for the following reasons (and more):

* Central location -- therefore, it helps to "equalize" travel costs (flight fare) for those traveling the long distances.

* Board of directors get to escape the cold weather in Ohio and be wined and dined in luxury suites.

* Same location year after year.....cuts costs of sending in a team of twit people to survey all the variables.

* Twi attendance is FAR TOO SMALL to warrant an east coast/west coast scenario.

* Corps volunteers in Texas and surrounding states are expected to take a week off work and get their butts there to be the work force.

* Just goes to show ------ twi is dead. And, twi mocks religious organizations for being in a rut????

* Once again.......so much of twi's selection has to do with MONEY and CONVENIENCE for the bod. The attendees are probably tired of seeing the same conference room year after year after year.

Same location, same speakers, same message, same wayspeak, and same boring time.

:D--> :P-->

skyrider

quote:

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Originally posted by satori001:

I'm trying to imagine what his thoughts might be.

He's a "heavy" at Wayworld, a heavy among heavies really. God knows, the Corps filled its ranks with self-important little mog-bots poised to strike at the first sign of believer weakness, with a "retemorized" litany of spiritual transgressions crafted to whither and demoralize the most recalcitrant believer (hopefully).

But the ranks of heavy mog-bots part like the Red Sea for the gravest and seriousest of the heavies - the ones who carry side-arms in His service - God's own bodyguards.

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Yeah, a "heavy" alright......carrying loads of secrets and incriminating evidence, having been the lcm-mog "doorkeeper" for many years.

He knows what happened behind closed doors.....and in the motor coach.....and in the dayton motel rooms......and in gunnisack......and on and on.

He is indispensible.......and holds leverage against twi's bod forever. If he chooses to stay at wayworld, he can. He can stroke his cold steel beretta at the way until he's old and gray.

As long as the money continues to funnel into twi's coffers.....linder will "safeguard" it. And, why shouldn't he? You have to be suspicious of everyone in the ranks. Even martindale fell to lust and sin.

And, so he slinks into the back door of The Cafe.....intent on eavesdropping and gathering information. Yeah, it's a parasitic existence, but then.....it gives him a voice in the bod's daily briefings.

Wonder what bema awards await such a service???

skyrider

Let me add......IMO an understanding of basic truths in scripture open the door for salvation, righteousness, comfort, exhortation, etc.

BUT......the "biblical accuracy" approach to Christian living as twi uses it to micromanage every person and every detail was never God's intent. Life is too varied and complex for one mog to sit on "twi's throne" and dictate specifics.

Some of the greatest truths (revelations) from Jesus Christ are found in the gospel of John....given to ONE INDIVIDUAL.

Twi's approach is one of a multi-level hierarchy where a score of "leaders" know all the ins-and-outs of a specific incident. Too much bureacracy, too much centralization, too much groupy-thinky.

Twi's approach......is seriously flawed.

skyrider

"Biblical research" is supposedly the cornerstone of twi.......yet, its ripe with fraud, adultery, scandal, spiritual abuse, law suits, etc.

But then.......twi doesn't profess to empower one for Christian living. They subscribe to "the one true householed"......and that's exactly what they've got. :D-->

quote:

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OHMYGOD at least he got to sit there and sip dambui. we got in trouble for falling asleep.

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ex, so true.......and sobering, to those of us who sat in the mog's teachings.

hours and hours and hours of WASTED TIME.

skyrider

quote:

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Originally posted on the 28 page (and counting...) thread, "Are you ready for this?" by TheEvan:

This discussion gives ample evidence of the pointlessness of the whole "biblical accuracy" approach to Christian living.

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Thanks, TheEvan.....for posting this insightful comment.

In questioning the whole "biblical accuracy" approach to Christian living.......I vividly remember sitting in vpw's corps night teachings and pondering the significance of those literal translations according to usage.

Hundreds of hours of teaching.....and hundreds of pages of corps notes.....AND I NEVER USED A BIT OF IT.

I chucked boxes of corps notes in the trash a decade ago.

And another thing......every time twi came out with a newly published book, some teacher stepped forward to teach the corps its biblical accuracy. What assinine and egotistical logic! I could read the damx book, thank you very much. -->

Yes, I appreciate the nuances and elaboration in the Greek language.......but honestly, so much of Christian living is simply walking in love.

skyrider

quote:

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Am I ready for forgiveness? HELL YES? Do I believe that one single day should pass without exposing the evil in twi? HELL NO.

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Radar......I couldn't agree more. :)-->

Thanks for posting.

skyrider

quote:

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There are about 20 who work in the bookstore, and actually printing has about 15, and you forgot word processing. It has about 10 or so in that dept. Food services and grounds has way more than originally estimated. When I was on staff, there were about 300. It was still grossly too many for the work that actually needed to be done.

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Wayfer Not, thanks for the additions........there are about 15 that work in printing? Amazing! Printing what???

So, add another 20 for bookstore & printing and about 20 more to food services & multi-services & grounds. Now, the staff totals around 240.

My, oh my.......the numbers swell for comfy living. ;)-->

Thanks, Jim........yeah, the a/v dept

So.....adding the bod's personal servants/aids (10) and a/v with tape duplicating (6) and a few "special assistants" and waygb guys and others (14)......the total of hq staff climbs to 200.

Hope the innies travel to hq often......to see the manicured grounds and polished floors. :D-->

Also, no longer do they have access to 40 interim corps workers at $2.50 a day ($75 a month).

quote:

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Thirty in Way Builders, but only ONE in legal?

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Yes, George......only one in legal.

Now, the 30 in way builders is an estimate....and downsized since I presume that there isn't much "building" going on. Only maintenance, painting, sewage treament, that sorta thing.

Oh, I forgot........that list needs to add another 10 or so.....nannies, laundry, shopping and personal house stewards for bod.

skyrider

Some 20 years ago, the hq staff numbered around 550. And, this was when the followers had ballooned upwards of 30,000 or so.

Today, the number of followers in twi is estimated around 3,000 or so.... one-tenth of the 1984 level.

How many hq staffers does it take to run the dwindling operation?

Approximate numbers (???)

Bod level: Emeritus/wives/donna......10

Trunk staff/int'l outreach...........10

Finance dept.........................06

Personnel / credit union.............04

Public Relations.....................01

Library..............................01

Way corps dept.......................04

Way disciples........................04

Computer services....................06

Printing.............................04

Legal................................01

Purchasing...........................03

Receptionists........................03

Safety...............................08

Bookstore............................10

Way Magazine.........................04

Shipping/ Receiving..................04

Warehouse............................02

Housekeeping.........................12

Way Builders.........................30

cabinet Shop.........................02

Design & Display.....................02

Food Services........................16

Housing..............................01

Grounds / Farms......................06

Multi-services.......................04

Children's Fellowship................02

Way Productions......................10

Auditorium...........................04

President's Cabinet / Dept coord.....18

Roughly......I count 170 hq staffers.

Now, add gunnison and field staff.......50 (?)

So, with rough estimates.....it comes to 220 staff for about 3,000 people. Incredible. :D-->

Please feel free to correct my estimates. ;)-->

skyrider

quote:

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believe to be a trustee. then you don't have to work at all

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ex, lol..........thanks. :)-->

Nothing makes a Kentuckian move faster than seeing an opening in the future for a work-free zone. :D-->

skyrider

quote:

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Originally posted by sky4it:

nice name by the way.

I took Pfal in the late 70's. I would say Jesus was on his way out the door way back then. But so he was with many other "orthodox" religions also.

The concept of 'Holiness" which simply means inward cleanliness was lacking back then. Weirwillisms, caned the gospels as irrelevant, thus making Jesus a token figure in Word cliches which became the panacea for the living Lord and the Holy Spirit.

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Thanks sky.

Yeah.....by the late 70s, twi was changing into a corporate entity and other things were taking a back seat.

With hindsight......and a 30-year perspective of looking at twi......it seems like they "sold out" to marketing classes, promoting programs, counting numbers, and twisting scriptures.

In a nutshell......twi fell prey to the lusts of the flesh and is fulfilling religious agendas. And, twi will be numbered alongside the others that have come to naught.

Auctioned off to the deceitful bidder........going, going and gone said he.

skyrider

The message was clear. If you believe God to supply your abundance, you can learn to live on a 4-hour work day. If you were spiritual, you could work 20 hours a week and still live "abundantly." This message was taught to the wows and corps.

Vpw proclaimed this......and, of course wanted all "extra time" for witnessing. :)-->

Lcm claimed that.........the way corps should be able to get twice as much done in half the time as the unbeliever (and thus, a 4-hour work day). Yet, even today.......many GS posters know that lcm WORKS TWO JOBS! :D-->

And, when lcm dictated for all corps to be full-time staff in 1995.......the STANDARD TWI WORK WEEK was 55 hours!

Yup....preach one thing and do another.

Double talk and shuffle feet was the order of the day at twi.

And, they wonder why people leave???

:D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D-->

skyrider

quote:

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The last one (I think) was a rehash, oh, excuse me, reteaching, of the HS book, blue book and a couple of others. It was after Craiggers got the boot. Obviously a last minute cast change but they tried to pretend it was the plan all along.

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Wasn't Larry Panxxxxxx one of the teachers at this rehashed one?

And, now......even he and his wife, from the Trunk office staff, LEFT twi. :D-->

skyrider

This topic of forgiveness sparks all kinds of questions.....

Is it a worthy endeavor to warn others of twi's ongoing deception and anti-Christian stance?

Since lcm slandered my reputation to cover his predatory sex stuff and don & howard & rosalie & donna were in cahoots with his decision, does that mean that forgiveness is warranted to all of them to unburden me? :D-->

If self-proclaimed twi is so spiritual, don't they see the NEED to ask for forgiveness?

Since light manifests darkness......don't topical discussions and thought-provoking questions aid all of us to dismantle the trappings of half-truths?

Lots more questions......but I gotta go.

skyrider

Absent from twi......that is. :)-->

Most of us are aware that vpw proclaimed, "the word takes place of the absent Christ." But what about Jesus? Is he absent from twi?

In the early 70s, there was an abundance of songs and praise for what Jesus, our savior, accomplished. The blue song book had numerous songs of Jesus.....and to vpw's credit, many nightowls closed with 15 minutes of tender Jesus-songs.

Where did all the "Jesus songs" go?...........My Jesus, I love thee.....He's the healer of broken hearts......He touched me......Yes it is Jesus....

And, why not accredit some of the programs to Jesus or Christ. Vpw had his "word over the world ambassadors" and "way corps" programs and lcm started his "way disciple" program. Unique, yes? Yet....so corporate-thinking. :D-->

So, it begs the question.......did/does twi promote the absent Jesus concept?

skyrider

quote:

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Yeah, I know it's supposed to be a "kinder, gentler" TWI since LCM got the boot, but what is it really like?

---

In the past couple of months, I've talked to a few innies. Here is what I found out....

* One couple bought a house....and are no longer fellowship coordinators.

* One couple is traveling lots more....no longer corps-committed.

* One keeps "believing" for things to change....and the excitement to return.

* One kept emphasizing her son's educational adventures....now that he is no longer on twi's payroll. He's paving new roads to travel.

* One told of a limb meeting with less than 40 people....and how things were ho-hum.

These are innie observations. :D-->

Their "testimonials" wouldn't convince a man dying of thirst to drink at twi's fountain of spewwwth.

skyrider

quote:

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What she said and AMEN to y'all!

Great thread! They act like we were bumbling idiots before we were saved by twi. If they had their way we'd believe we were nothing and would be nothing if it weren't for twits. They want us to worship them - not God.

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In hindsight....the condescending attitude was rampant throughout twi's leadership. And, vpw was the worst of the worst. I was in a corps meeting where he threw a ....y fit for 20 minutes because some corps guy, with a low blood sugar problem, dozed off during vp's teaching. Why.....you'd have thought this guy stood up and flipped ole vpw the bird, or something??

And while we are on the subject of glory-grabbing......did ya ever notice how twi's bod courted the professionals, the athletes, the doctors and such? Seemed like twi was hot on the trail for new "pfal poster people."

And......I always thought it quite ironic that after Bud Morgan's film highlighting the Stauhal family, they soon up and split out.

Smart. Very smart people indeed.

skyrider

Regarding individuality......

IMO it seemed like individuality within twi was replaced by groupthink, groupspeak, groupdo at about PFAL '77 time.

I strongly fault vpw for this downward spiraling. One of the cornerstones in the pfal class was "Christ in you, Christ in you, Christ in you....the hope of glory." Each member in particular was unique, special, honored, valued.

But wait....as the numbers grew, vpw's agenda of control grew hair!!! The corps numbers were multiplying and these folks went out and did the bidding of wierwille's plan of "word over the world." More numbers, more corps, more control.......and less individuality.

Seems like vpw, and later lcm, were intoxicated with their own pride and stumbled at several major crossroads. Why couldn't these "mogs" see what many others were seeing? So much for the mog's indepth spiritual perception and awareness.

At the rate twi continues to slide into groupdom........soon, a twi follower won't be able to go to the corner store without his twig walking with him. :D--> :P-->

skyrider

Not wanting to derail the other thread, I brought this discussion over to this table. :)-->

quote:

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Originally posted by JustThinking:

On a similar note, the TCs were told in the early 90s that there would be no more tapes (now CDs) by individuals. Groups only. They were tired of people wanting to hear old TWI music like Lisa Lockridge Tracy. (Was that it?) Plus if that person left, their music wasn't usable anymore. A group could replace people and it wouldn't be noticed on an audio tape. Sad? You betcha! It shows how paranoid they could be.

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So......let me get this straight, lcm mandates that twi will no longer support individual performances and talent? Why? Because....what if that person splits out?

So......in the teaching arm of things, lcm is the ONLY one to teach on sundays for months on end. He is spotlighted, only him.

And.....he is OUSTED!

He's gone. Now, what say twi? :P-->

skyrider

socks,

That thread is on page 2.

It's entitled "The New Ex-Twi Purple Heart Goes To"........

quote:

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...and nearly four thousand more joined in on phone lines from around the world.

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"nearly four thousand" probably means about 3,600 or so. If I were to speculate a little....I'd guess that about 700 married couples with 2 children (average) were noted in the mandatory count. That adds up to 2,800.

Another 800 singles added would bring that number up to the alleged boast.

[Note: 700 married couples in 50 states = 14 couples (with kids) per state. And, 800 singles in 50 states = 16 singles per state.]

Yep, pretty dismal. :D-->

And, although these numbers are more than likely exaggerated a bit, they would include 12 year olds and upward.