skyrider

exie......you're too funny. :D-->

your posts get me laughing. thanks.

This newfound information deserves its own thread. It was getting buried and derailed in another thread.

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No, you guys. They are divorced. Got it from a reliable source. -Pat

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So........NOW we know. :P-->

Perhaps soon, someone can get this documented from the county records......just so we aren't accused of starting rumors. :D-->

skyrider

Thanks everyone.....for your posts.

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The thing is, dear Skyrider, that everyone who has left, or should I say, everyone who has a mind to THINK, knows that there's no logical answer to your question.

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Your right, Chas.......no logical answer to these questions.

Appreciate it though. ;)-->

skyrider

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Does anyone have an idea why they stay legally married? What is the gain?

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Yeah.....it could be something as simple as adhering to a bible verse like oldiesman said.

Or.......it could be some arrangement, some kinda deception that won't upset twi's applecart. After all, who knows what kind of fallout would have occurred had Craig and Donna gotten divorced in 2000?

Even to this day.....innies are NOT allowed to ask questions. The twi-servants are NOT allowed in the private lives of the leadership. Period.

skyrider

On one of the recent threads, the question was asked....What does Rosie ACTUALLY do? But as twi diminishes and slows to a snail's pace in outreach & programs & activities....What do the staffers do at their jobs???

What does the printing department print?

What does the receiving dept receive?

What does the purchasing dept purchase?

What does the bookstore dept stock & sell?

What does the a/v dept duplicate.....besides sts tapes?

What does way builders build?

How can twi possibly employ 260+ staffers and fill these job responsibilities with bureaucratic busywork? -->

And finally......how can field innies even begin to think that their abs money is "establishing the prevailing word in their day and time?"

Has common sense totally left the twi premises? :D-->

skyrider

Here at Greasespot Cafe, on this About The Way forum, there are now 75 pages of posts! It must be almost mind-boggling for an innie (or newbie) who comes to this site. :)-->

Along with all the other avenues of information on this website alone, just the sheer volume speaks of twi corruption and manipulation.

Even John Lindxr frequently comes here! Isn't there a verse in Galatians that talks about "one who comes to spy out their liberty in Christ".....wanting to bring them back into bondage?

75 pages of liberating, thought-provoking, tell-it-like-it-was (is), in your face, posts that EXPOSE TWI AS THE MIND-CONTROLLING OUTFIT THAT IT IS.

Thanks Paw.....for keeping the doors open.

skyrider

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they should have "all perverts day"

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:D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D-->

And......along with uncle harry day, let's not forget dorothy ediquette day. :)-->

Or, get-their-money howard day.

And....celebrate with george jessio wine. -->

Yeah......add a word or tweak a phrase and you no longer have its meaning or intent. Amazing what one little word can do!

Within twi, Merry Christmas evolved into.....Happy Household Holiday. You see, the "household" is to be at the center.

Later, in the constant changing world of twi, the phrase took on "way corps flavor" (and deeper in-house terminology)......Ho-Ho Relo. Most of the corps would change campuses after Christmas. Of course, in today's wayworld, there is only one "training" location with a half-dozen or so trainees.

Come to think of it........slowly and stealthily, twi "stole" most all of the holidays and redirected their meanings.

Easter Sunday...........Word in Business Weekends (for many years)

Memorial Day Weekend.....Pentecost (speak in tongues -- pfal session 12)

Fourth of July...........Spiritual Freedom

Thanksgiving.............Advanced Class Specials

Christmas.............Happy Household Holiday / Twi-adapted songs

New Year's Eve........Dr. Wierwille "Praise & Worship" :D-->

Yeah....vpw's birthdate was on December 31st...so even the eve of the new year focused on him.

What idolatry! What a ride! :P-->

skyrider

taking pfal and "advanced study classes" ----$600

going WOW and foregoing a decent job ---- $15,000

going Way Corps and foregoing years of lost opportunity ---- $50,000 +

spending a couple decades running twi classes, events ---- $$$$$$ (lost forever)

Living life to the fullest and seeing God's blessings EVERYWHERE ---- priceless

When CGeer headed off to Europe (1981), it quickly became evident that he was out for a POWER GRAB. From several sources, I heard that Bo Reahxxd and, later, Vince F. had constant dealings with CGeer's abrasiveness. From what I knew, by 1984......CGeer was well on his way to establishing HIS OWN OFFSHOOT MINISTRY. Wierwille's death came at "the perfect time" for CGeer's timeline to abandon twi's mother ship!!!

Therefore, when the passing of a patriarch was dumped on us at the 1986 corps week, I was NOT SURPRISED. Nor, was I inclined to follow CGeer's deception. About a week after this, I spent about an hour with Ricardo.....and he told me the background behind CGeer's statement that alluded to the trustees being murderers. CGeer's accusation was to incite rebellion and distrust of twi leadership. CGeer, who had spent years reading spy novels and biographies of great (and evil) men, was extremely cunning and manipulative.

With all of that said, I didn't trust CGeer. Period.

For me, it was really a choice of "keep moving with twi and wait & see" where this path leads. I certainly wasn't fully on lcm's bandwagon.....but I definitely was NOT going to join up with the CGeer outfits.

Long story short.......martindale seemed to get some momentum going by 1993, but then the "lcm-confidence" turned vicious. The homo purges.....the debt doctrine and deception....the witch hunts to sanctify the household.....and the ego-maniac style of leadership at hq. The worst was STILL COMING.

When lcm gave his revelation that all corps were to be full-time......THIS WAS A MAJOR CONTROL DEVICE. It radically changed the course of twi. From this blundering "revelation"....sprang ALL KINDS OF POLICIES & DOCTRINES. The time-management reports, the travel forms, the pet policy, the pregnancy policy, the gift moratorium, the cancelling of future ROAs (imo) and a host of others. You see.....once the corps were full-time, twi became the sole provider over what was a spiritual need. And, if the roa continued.....then, twi would have to PAY for all corps expenses, etc. It totally changed the dynamics of everything in twi!

Soon to follow, fanatical limb coordinators pushed these policies onto the field. One of the big instigators was Bob Moneyhands. These control policies were strictly to keep the abundant sharing FLOWING into hq.......these policies had little relevance to the believers on the field. Of course, martindale never stepped in and stopped it either.

For me, 1995 was the beginning of the end. Then, when the wap class was in the works.......everything was an attempt to "prop up the great one" namely lcm. Now, in retrospect....it's easy to see how lcm was grandstanding and racheting up the control all the while he (lcm) was deep in sin and lust. The man was HIDING BEHIND THE CURTAIN.

Everything that has happened since 1995, has clarified martindale's demise. He made his choices and he was finally found out.

It took me years to realize that HOWARD, DON, ROSALIE, DONNA, and many others were involved in this inner circle of deception and idolatry. But then, the MONEY was (and is) the central object of concern.

What a wake-up call.....to find all this in "a biblical ministry." :D-->

And, many of the offshoots (from what I've heard) are pretty lame as well.

Thankful for FREEDOM and GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS.

skyrider

married corps woman with lcm at 1998 AC........HIT

other women who've left twi.......HIT, HIT

mrs. allxn just trying to keep her twi job......HIT, HIT, HIT

ms. parkxr (another lawsuit settled)......HIT, HIT, HIT, HIT

rosie's declaration in deposition to have known about martindale's sexual harrassment/assault on twi women as early as 1995......

now that lcm is exiled in Toledo......Does twi MISS his leadership?

:D--> :P-->

lcm and crossing over the "prevailing word promised land bridge"........MAJOR MISS :D-->

lcm's illusion as a "modern-day joshua".....miss

bod initially agreeing to lcm as research dept head........ :D--> :D-->

rosie keeping donna on payroll as "special asst to prez"......

rosie continues twi's mumbo-jumbo debt policy to oppress its followers.....miss

.....and the MISSES just keep on comin'

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i don't know of too many churches that care about hits or misses (they don't feel like they have to be hearing from god every second, which is a much safer way to go). i know of cults that miss a lot like with the end of the world and such

i think i could have rationalized the misses but never the hurts.....

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Thanks, ex.......yeah, I see your point.

Thanks, igotout.....so true, so true. :D-->

In retrospect, here are some of the "hit & miss" antics (glaring blunders) that quickly come to mind from twi's leadership, vpw & lcm. Even starting in the early 70s, there are plenty of "misses" (and very few hits!).

the zero corps..................miss

word over the world by 1976.....miss

pfal 77 to replace old class....miss

placing geer over europe........miss

putting the mantle on lcm.......MISS

athletes of the spirit..........miss :D-->

vpw dies of cancer..............????

geer's paper, pop............... -->

lcm's galatian tapes............mis(direction)

lcm's homo purge................mis(applied)

lcm's debt clarification........miss

lcm's full-time corps...........miss (ego)

lcm's sanctified household......miss

lcm's wap class.................MISS (too much yelling)

lcm's sexual predatory ways.....

lcm took wrong wife to bed......Mrs. Allxn

twi's lawyers oust lcm..........FINALLY A HIT. :D-->

rosie takes twi's reins.........back to the misses. :P--> :P-->

Just with this cursory overview of "misses".....wouldn't it be fair to say that twi is an outfit where the blind are leading the way?

skyrider

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Big difference between attitude affecting how you do what you do and assuming your attitude(Belief) can change things beyond your control without your intervention.

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Yeah.........BIG DIFFERENCE.

So much for ole vic's "rightly dividing of the word."

--> -->

skyrider

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On the other hand, believing positively does influence (notice I said influence, not guarantee automatically) positive things to happen. If one feels confident when going to a job interview, and feels he/she is qualified for that job, the person is far more likely to get the job than if one has a negative attitude about getting the job.

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Absolutely Biblefan Dave.

And, to THAT degree......it DOES work for saint and sinner alike.

The problem with the vpw doctrine of "believing equals receiving" is the perspective of the one "doing the believing." Through those turbulent twi years, I saw people "believing" for healing, money, new recruits, green traffic lights, parking spaces, anticipating to manifest in a meeting, picked for an assignment, desiring to hug vpw, etc, etc, etc.

It simply became totally anal.

And, it seemed like the mog ALWAYS had the final say on whether one was believing or "being tempted by the devil" on selfish desires.

--> -->

skyrider

In terms of common sense.......twi better take some DIFFERENT action soon!

Many of the wayfer kids are growing up and leaving their parents' nest with NO COMMITMENT to twi. Yet, within the ranks.......there still are some young kids who might be coaxed if the class is right (and...if the price is right). ;)-->

Otherwise, as the older generation moves to retirement and receives social security payments (and the abs levels take a steep dive).....they're going to soon have 60-year-olds going door to door witnessing.

A new class? Common sense.....and a sense of urgency is driving this decision.

It's about time. :D-->

skyrider

Regarding CFF.....

Yeah, it sounds like twi will be following CFF's class format by having different teachers in specific segments. What else will they copy?

Could it be that the "man of god in our day and time in all the universe" doc-vic-trine in twi is fading from view?

THEY'LL NEVER ADMIT IT.........but, just perhaps, twi is s--l--o--w--l--y changing because the outreach is cold, the abs levels are flat, and the boring meter is at an all time high???

So, in other words.....twi is "forced" to change.

It's about time.

skyrider

Twi is in dire need of "re-inventing" itself. Almost five years have passed since "the martindale fiasco"......the major damage control, the lcm ouster, the lawsuits (plural), the pitiful numbers in outreach and corps grads, etc.

And, some information from the ACS has been posted by Wishing for Freedom on the thread, "ACS in Texas." One interesting topic to note is the bod's decision to videotape a new foundational class.

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It is getting too much for the Way Corps on the field to teach foundational classes live. They are taping a new class. The syllabus is being redone. They haven't announced any of the content. I am just guessing, but I think it will be closer to PFAL than WAP.

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FINALLY.........the damage control tactics have stabilized and the base of support from twi's followers gives the bod some breathing room (and ABS money) to put distance between martindale's failures and twi's "future."

NOW.............twi is back to square one. They have two samples of foundational classes to examine. Will twi just clone another copy of PFAL?..............surely not -->

COULD IT BE...........that the waygb is making notes of our posts and putting their "researchers" to work on the shortfalls in pfal? Will they cut out "the law of believing" and the mother's fear that caused her child's death? Will they truly examine the aspect of abundant sharing and STOP DEMANDING that wayfers give 15% of their income or "God won't even spit in their direction?"

Most assuredly......it goes without saying that twi will BURY the wap class material, and the memory of this horrible decade (1996 - 2006).

A new class........or a re-hashed class? Would the current bod DARE challenge their founding president's "research?" And, if they DID present some of this material in a new class.....would current followers leave???

Yes, the 2006 year is on twi's horizon of change. Change.....to another foundational class. Change......and charge for new classes. Change....twi's president?

It's about time. :D-->

skyrider

MARK YOUR 2006 CALENDARS. :D-->

These extra few years in Dallas have given the bod some breathing room from the Martindale fiasco.

Now.....bring em back to hq. Show em the kinder, gentler twi (???).

And........MAYBE all of this is in preparation of "the big announcement".......(drum roll, please)......Rosalie is stepping down as twi's 3rd president. After all, she's served "admirably" (1996 - 2006) on the board for ten years and deserves high respect and high status during her emeritus years!!!

Could be?? ;)-->

skyrider

When some vpw-schister keeps pushing this "believing equals receiving" doctrine down my throat.......I refuse to drink more of this kool-aid and start asking questions!

What about Daniel? Was he BELIEVING to be thrown in the lion's den?

What about Shadrak, Meshak and Abendego? Were they BELIEVING to be thrown into the fiery furnace?

What about Samson?

What about Moses?

What about Paul? Was he believing to be imprisoned? Tortured? Shipwrecked? Mocked? Etc?

Doesn't the Bible teach about the devil and his attempts to thwart God's chosen? At times, things are just beyond our "control" (believing).

And then, there are those questions about current situations where someone, knows the truth of God's Word and continues to willfully sin. What about L. Craig Martindale? Was he BELIEVING to fail as the 2nd president? Was he BELIEVING TO SOMEDAY WORK AT UPS? Was he BELIEVING to be isolated from his family and live as a nobody in Toledo?

Just too many questions when I try to put that square peg of wierwillian doctrine into that round hole of everlasting truth.

skyrider

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It is getting too much for the Way Corps on the field to teach foundational classes live. They are taping a new class. The syllabus is being redone. They haven't announced any of the content. I am just guessing, but I think it will be closer to PFAL than WAP.

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FINALLY.........sounds like the bod is distancing themselves from mr. martindale.

If this is the quality of indepth spiritual perception and awareness coming from twi's hq, who needs it or wants it???

Since throwing the guy out on his ear.......FOUR MORE YEARS of misguided bravado.

Sheeeeeeesh. -->

This vpw doctrine that believing equals receiving is unscriptural.

Yes, believing opens doors to receiving God's salvation, grace, and blessings......but, to put it into a mathematical formula is where vpw overstepped and moved into private interpretation.

Maybe vpw wanted to further establish his "works with a mathematical exactness and scientific precision" approach, but imo he veered off course.

Perhaps.....it would be better stated, YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW.

Now, THAT is scriptural. :)-->

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This is also the last time they are having it in Texas. The 2006 one will be split in two and held at Headquarters.

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Makes sense.

After all, it re-connects the followers with their "beloved headquarters" AND it gives the staffers something to do.

Nothing like a couple of in-house conferences to grease up the machinery again.

:D--> :D-->

skyrider

And another thing.....

If................"You are where you are because of your believing, and you'll be where your believing takes you......"

I wonder.........if craig was BELIEVING to be ousted by twi's lawyers (and sanctioned finally by twi) as an abuser and adulterer?