skyrider

Why do I regret going into the corps? Why do I see vpw's corps training as extreme spiritual abuse?

* The first two months inresidence were more pfal indoctrination.

* The work/study approach was a joke. How much can one learn weeding a small plot for two weeks? And, the study part was simply indoctrination.

* Meal times were mandatory....with after-meal announcements, indoctrination.

* The whole agenda of the corps training was conformity.

* Work twigs, corps twigs, study twigs, prayer twigs.....no time for self.

* $20 a month to spend.....a way to teach discipline, or conformity to meager living?

* Screaming, screaming, screaming......in a Christian program??

* Sitting on the floor for a two hour after-meeting.

* Going to meetings to schedule meeting times,

* Praying for 4 hours from 2 am to 6 am to keep the prayer vigil going.

* Building a twi-dependent person, not a Christ-in-you individual?

* VPW had self-serving agendas for "his" corps.

I fully understand that every corps experience was different and every campus had a different flavor and different leadership. There are way too many variables to compare corps experiences.

For me, the corps training wasn't all bad.....but when I step back and LOOK at the overall picture, it takes the shape of hardened leaders leading others. IMO, it accelerated a corporate-climbing mentality and caste system within twi......i.e. God's "best" would want to be in vp's corps, wouldn't they?

To me, the dark agenda of cult-like conformity tainted the whole experience. Obviously, vpw had a controlling agenda for his corps, his ministry.

But hey, I got to sit at "the master's feet." -->

skyrider

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While I hate what happened to some of us here and really feel for them, and the aftermath they've been left to deal with, I don't feel like having to deal with being accused of turning a blind eye to the bad whenever I acknowledge any of the good.

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LindaZ,

Who said anything about "being accused of turning a blind eye to the bad?" If that's what you read between the lines of this thread.....then, I want to be upfront, THAT IS NOT MY INTENTION.

I was very specific in stating that if 350 were to give their opinions on the corps training, then there would probably be 350 different responses. I don't know how to be any clearer.

?????

skyrider

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Should those of us who have benefitted from our experience feel guilty? Are you guys out to shame us?

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--> -->

I thought Greasespot, and especially this About The Way forum, was to EXPOSE twi?

Sure, I understand that every corps experience was different. I thought I already said that. Is it unfair or wrong to give the other side of the spectrum of corps training?

Heck, I never even mentioned the commando episode in the mud late one Sunday night!! Nor did I talk about the dorm change assignments where we moved all of our belongings in January...IN A BLIZZARD.

I thought I signed up for Christian leadership training.....not the marine corps? ;)-->

skyrider

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I have nothing but regret for my time in the corps.

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UncleHairy, I couldn't agree more.

And another thing....

Come on back........to what?

The Indiana Campus is gone, Emporia is gone, LEAD is gone, Camp Gunnison is virtually empty....and hq is entangled with lawsuits?

ROA has stopped, WIB has stopped....virtually all fellowship activities have been slashed. It's a totally different set of rules and policies......with waygb monitoring secrets.

Just regurgitated classes and throw your money into twi's ever-consuming belly?? No thanks.

This leopard cannot change its spots.

ex10,

I like sitting at your table. :)-->

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It wasn't all bad, else we never would have stayed. Might I suggest that the wonderful people and fun times we had kept us in despite the b.s.? I think the commaraderie and friendship among us plebes helped perpetuate the tolerance for injustice? The friendship was very good.

The leadership was corrupt, no doubt, but geeze louise, I met some of the most wonderful people that I will never forget. In my mind, that's worth something.

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ex10,

I have considered this for a number of years. No, it wasn't all bad...(is that "all" without exception or "all" with distinction?). Of course not, but then......is an abusive husband or relationship "all" bad? I mean....what about when the abusive husband is gone or what about the sweet, innocent children?

The point that it wasn't "all bad" becomes insignificant, imo. Every corps person experienced a different corps experience. Some graduated from the corps and split two weeks later....never heard from again. Some corps girls were sexually assaulted. Some corps got out unscathed and melted back into a home fellowship somewhere. It still doesn't change the premise of this thread.

The screaming sessions after lightbearers were horrendous! The namecalling in this supposedly Christian leadership training attacked my character and self-worth. The spewings after corps nights, the ridiculous singling out of certain corps to "teach" something.....was nothing short of full-scale intimidation, manipulation and a lording over the oppressed.

Sure, I met some "wonderful people" in the corps, but I've met "wonderful people" in high school, college, traveling, co-workers, etc. etc. And yes, it is worth something.

But to some.......the corps experience wreaked havoc and destruction. Some paid a very dear price for this "training"........mental turmoil, sexual assault, divorce, suicide. Of course, it didn't happen to "all" of us. But geeze louise......I just don't see any way to sugar-coat the corps training.

VPW totally failed in his attempts to establish Christian training for aspiring and dedicated leaders. He abused his authority and power over the youth.

Was it extreme spiritual abuse..........YES. I will never forget some of the lives who were damaged! Was it worth it? If you ask those some 350 people from the 10th corps, you'd probably get about 350 different opinions. Your opinion might be rosy.....their opinion might include shades of blood-red.

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Originally posted by UncleHairy:

So, is this a new policy for twi?...or just some limb coordinator shooting off his mouth?

It would be a dramatic reversal for twi to welcome back all the former M&A folks. I mean, what about all the "devil spirits" that they would bring back with them? What this "limb coordinator" fails to realize is that a lot of us were not booted out...we walked away on our own. If they seriously want people to return, they MUST admit to ALL of the evil, the mistakes, the abuses and everything else. Of course, once they do THAT, nobody will want to return.

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Yeah.......what this "limb coordinator" fails to realize is many mark/avoid people came face-to-face with a situation or a twi leader and, when confronted with this, TOOK A STAND AGAINST LCM AND TWI'S EVIL AND WALKED AWAY.

IMO.....this "limb coordinator" is a maverick and is off the beaten path of twi's policies. Because.....imo, the bod know that MANY OF US took a righteous stand and were black-listed. And, they know....if we were invited back into the fold, that it would only be a matter of time before another confrontation escalated and it could get ugly.

Twi's bod wants its followers to keep their distance from many of us who lcm black-listed. They know it. We know it.

This "limb coordinator" is simply a stooge.

That's the way I see it.

Oldies, if you still refer to their home fellowships as "twig".......you're NOT welcome.

They hold to the present truth and shun "old wineskins."

You will be red-flagged and interrogated. :D-->

From an innie friend, I recently heard that the limb coordinator in my state is trying to welcome back those who lcm & company marked/avoided.

His message: Come on back........it's better now, really.

Twi is trying to make m&a'd into lemonade. They adamantly refuse to acknowledge their trespasses and sins, their evil legalism, their fiscal unaccountability, their support of sexual predators, their dark and plagarious past, vpw's cancer (a devil spirit?) and an avalanche of mismanagement and micromanagement.

Are these people nucking futs! :D-->

I will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER go back. And, I mean NEVER.

NEVER ever.

skyrider

exie,

Let us know your findings. :)-->

Goey posted this:

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This topic matters to me because exposing the facade of the Martindale marriage/divorce and the facade of Donnas's and Rosie's relationship may help someone to decide to leave TWI and stop supporting these godless parasites.

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Another cup of coffee while we wait? ;)-->

skyrider

A la prochaine,

Yeah......an evil outfit and the "smart ones" didn't come back in-residence after Christmas break. ;)-->

But had we not traveled through "the valley of death"........we wouldn't begin to appreciate "the mountaintops of life" and that our God is with us.

We made it, A la. We may have crawled a little, but we made it OUT!

(((((((A la)))))))

skyrider

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In light of this, I just wonder, what is really keeping them from making the situation right, or at least as right as is in their power to do? The souls they hurt are worth more than the piddling ****** they have in their bank accounts. They oughta know the problems are just not going to go away, even if they retemorize the whole bible backwards and forwards. Why don't they just do the right thing?

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Mr. Hammeroni,

By the standards of worldly excess or greed, twi is a piker. But in terms of modicum comfort and groupie adulation, twi's bod are riding this buggy to the end of the path.

IMO...they are attempting to be "legends in their own minds." It must be self-hypnotic to repeat to themselves that their organization is making known the word like it hasn't been known since the first century. They live in a parallel existence while the real world speeds along.

Besides, with some $24 million in assets and $25 million in bonds/stocks/investments/cash (whatever ???).....it ain't all that bad for some retiring country folk. And, with many staff trained to live in dorm-style shelter, the another some 40 fast-approaching emerituses.....it will suffice.

Where else would a 64 year old rivenbark go? And donna....she gets pseudo-pity from some who haven't grasped the whole picture. Plus, with the possibility of two college students still going thru the works....she's apt to stay put and stay quiet.

And, one more thing..........when the bod and emeritus bod travel, its a petty cash account expense! When the said party eat and lodge, it's paid for. When these guys travel to the shopping malls and down to Florida for winter jaunts, IT CAN EASILY BE COVERED IN EXPENSE ACCOUNTS AND THUS, PAID BY THE ABUNDANT SHARING OF TWI FOLLOWERS.

Nothing like having unaccountability in a non-profit organization. :D-->

skyrider

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Originally posted by My3Cents:

But as cultural norms changed the way did not. Very few in their late teens, early twenties thinks it's cool now to hitch hike, to be itinerant, to live in a crash pad. Poverty and being grubby are no longer as appealing.

Plus they never were appealing to older folks so as the way people aged, there was no way for them to live in nice houses, make some money etc and still be in the good graces of the way.

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Some good points made by ex10 & my3cents. Thanks.

Also, I think there is something to be said about the offspring who see a new world of information and communication. It's tight to have a cell phone as a 14 year-old. It's fun to be online, and on the technological curve, with friends.

As you noted, the world has changed dramatically in the past 15 years and twi is still dragging the chains of religious (cult) conformity.

Individualism is IN.....groupthink is OUT.

All one has to do is look at life through the eyes of a teenager! Man, twi is dead in spiritual perception and any awareness.

--> -->

Belle,

Yeah.....or another analogy, we looked forward to sunny beach fellowship and learning and had NO IDEA of the tsunami waves of evil that were raging towards our naive world.

If only there had been a warning system in place!

NOW THERE IS.......it's the internet. :)-->

My objective for going corps: to serve God and help others

Twi's objective for training: follow the master trainer, till death

Four years of twi leadership critiquing, reporting, reproving, screening, screaming, manipulating, etc.....extreme spiritual abuse used to "train" way corps.

Physically, mentally, psychologically, socially, spiritually......challenges and barriers were set in place. Over-the-top assignments to intimidate and overpower.....like, get aerobic points and be at 5:20 am meeting (3X a week) with some corps nights past midnight, learn the names of all corps on campus (350+ and elder corps) within the first two weeks, memorize the first chapter of Ephesians, and practice all the basic keys in the Dale Carnegie How to win friends and influence people book and retemorize your NEW pack of corps retemories. These challenges will start you in the right direction to be "spiritual."

Isolated from society, family, friends, tv and newspapers.......while in-residence, heavy-handed control over daily activity and communication was monitored. For the most part, your sponsors should be fellow believers who you've served and will faithfully write (and teach) in your monthly correspondence.

The list of infringements and abuses were in direct relationship to the corps leadership at the time and wierwille's campus visits. The motor coach king took full advantage with sexual abuse over young women and full-scale intimidation over young men.

What was vpw thinking?

Talk about.....The NON-subtle power of spiritual abuse!!!

Sheeeesh. It's so CLEAR now.

skyrider

exie,

good idea, count me in.

just tell me where to send the $5. :)-->

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Just a thought.. why should they get divorced? True, it would free up ole craigers and Donna to pursue whatever relationship they would want. But, who would in their right mind marry either of them?

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Mr. Hammeroni,

Yes, it would "free up" a legally-fronted marriage, but imo there would be lots of other considerations. For one....I would think that donna would want to distance herself from craig's sexual "allegations" and failure as twi's 2nd president.

And, a big factor (I would think).....would be the three children. Obviously, the attempts to shelter these kids from rumor control and the internet may have had some impact. But honestly, I would think at least the older two kids (young adults now) are VERY AWARE OF WHAT'S HAPPENED.

More likely.....why NOT get divorced?

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I for one don't care if they are divorced or not....and for this reason.

If they ARE DIVORCED it is because it is to THEIR ADVANTAGE, some how, some way.

If they are still married it is because it is to THEIR ADVANTAGE, some how, some way.

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Radar,

I agree......and don't care either.

The martindale marriage was side-tracked from biblical truth long ago. Of course, they fronted "this marriage" in public, but the two lived in separate, selfish-served worlds. All of this separate stuff....without even approaching the topics of sexual assaults, rapes, lesbo antics, and the ongoing list of atrocities.

It matters NOT one whit.......whether they've ended their "marriage" or still choose to live in hyperbole-hypocrisy but it is interesting to see how the legal/financial side of life motivates them.

No wonder SO MANY in the past couple decades have DIVORCED ourselves from any twi affiliation -- past and present.

skyrider

ex10,

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I knew stuff when I was in, but not near as much as I know now after visiting with exes and such, and sometimes I just feel sorta sick after talking, visiting, and learning more. Am I the only one?

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No....you are not alone. I had strong suspicions of some jaded agendas while in, but knew NOTHING of the magnitude of corruption from the top brass.

Although I am sickened by the likes of vpw, lcm, howard, rosie, donna, linder and others....on the flip side, IT BRINGS MANY SCRIPTURES TO LIFE IN MODERN TIMES. Corrupt leaders deceive people, oppress people, steal from the widows, voice "blessings" and evil from the same mouth, etc. etc.

Of course, I go through those times when I whish i'd never heard of twi. And, of course wonder......what life would have been like if I'd have refused any involvement with twi?

True justice is coming....and God, in his righteousness, is sickened by twi's injustices too.

skyrider

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I checked this county, shelby, and about 25 others last spring until I got sidetracked with TWI's lawsuit against me. Apparently, Craig and Donna did not want the info known. Too bad.

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Pat,

If I understand what you're saying.....an Ohio resident can travel to another county seat and file for divorce?

If that's the case.......it wouldn't surprise me at all if craig (or donna) traveled to some DISTANT COUNTY, like say near Athens, Ohio to keep this divorce announcement secret. Somewhere far away.....where there were no fellowships, no innies to read the public notice.

Heck, look at the lengths twi went to in shipping craig off to toledo? Secret location, secret job, secret severance pay, secret EVERYTHING!

:D--> :D-->

skyrider

papajohn,

Don't you think that this might be a broad-stroke generalization?

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why is it everyone WANTS to see bad things happen?

sure, they were a bunch of abusing a$$'s, but it seems to me that you are all falling over that stumbling block.

a great woman once said, if you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all.

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According to "a great woman".......I suppose she would have wanted Jesus to NOT warn of the Pharisee and Sadducees hypocrisy?

Merry Christmas to you too. :D-->

'twas the night before christmas,

and all through the house(hold)

none of the innies were stirrin'

until the news of this marriage fold.

yes, tis true, so unbelievably true...

and deceptively, they've been lied to

by twi's directors no less

oh my god.........what a mess!

so they scampered and skeedaddled

and stopped sending their money,

to an outfit laced with deception

and "biblical" baloney.

and to those who ridicule

the adventures of st. nick and reindeer,

its not that far-fetched to believe

than a cult full of fear.

so let's hoist our glasses

in a celebration of cheer,

and welcome lots more ex-twiers

in the upcoming year!

wonder if "damage control" will be working overtime this christmas? or, if rico has a squelch-information plan in place?

after all, he's the one that's supposed to keep twi followers informed "from soup to nuts."

:D--> :D-->

This thread is my Christmas gift.......to all you innies who have extra time during these holidays to sit in front of your computers.

Merry Christmas........and a Happy New Ex-twi Year!