skyrider

In all fairness to Oldies' statement.......he followed me over to this thread after our little jousting episode on the Twi Nostalgia vs Twi Reality thread.

I think it was my pointed question that sparked his ill-placed remark:

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If some folks would quit focusing endlessly on Wierwille's sins and dirty laundry, maybe the focus wouldn't be on the preacher; but other, more important things.

Does focusing on Wierwille's sins magnify the True and Living Way, the Christ?

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Oldies....could you possibly get thru one sentence without bringing up "wierwille?"

Yeah......the worshipping of man is well documented.

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This discussion has brought up two women that influenced vpw's work at two different points in time.

1) Rosalind Rinker

2) Dr. Higgins (Doc Higgins)

In 1942....Rosalind is noted during the Payne, Ohio tenure.

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On page 38......Born Again to Serve

"Rev. Wierwille visited the Higley Press frequently for fellowship with people there....This opportunity I gladly accepted, and the venture proved fruitful. It was also at this press that Rev. Wierwille met Rosalind Rinker, a former missionary to China and Korea...

...She then further suggested, "Why don't you search for the greatest of all things in life which would teach Christians the how of a really victorious life?" He took her advice and began studying the Word more diligently."

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Concerning Doc Higgins, I think Jonny Lingo had it about right.

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No, it was "Doc Higgins", the one who had read Bullinger and allegedly said to VPW; "you teach like Bullinger reads".

She is the one whom VPW called at night, and "released" his new findings upon, so that he in turn could then receive, then retain, and then release some more". He explained this not only from an historic point of view, but also to illustrate the principle of "receive, retain, release", and how it worked in his own life.

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Don't remember the year with Doc Higgins, but it was obviously a turning point in vpw's study.

Oh, one more thing.....Rosalind Rinker was not a doctor.

Hope this helps.

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I suppose you'd have some meaningful argument if the 1953 class and the 1967 class were identical. THEN you may say with ALL BOLDNESS, that VPW stole PFAL from Leonard.

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Whole sections, paragraphs, character names, illustrations, charts, class formats, class photo style, etc. were "snipped" and pieced together for "vpw's class".......

But then, you're probably right......if you go to the nth degree with that qualifying and pivotal word, identical.

Okay......I'll step away from this table and let the original conversation continue. And, I hope Oldies doesn't keep following me. :)-->

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...you may say with ALL BOLDNESS, that VPW stole PFAL from Leonard

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YOUR WORDS, Oldies.......I just snipped it abit.

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It was made known that B.G. Leonard was one of the men of God scattered across the continent that VPW learned from, that ultimately led to the final version of the PFAL class we all know and loved.

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...nice way to dance around WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW!!

THREE MONTHS LATER........the "first pfal class" ran.

Heck....the minute vp got home he had to get the logistics of this class together! Get the people signed up. Registered. Class charts. You know the routine.

Nothing like BEE LINING it home to run LEONARD'S CLASS.

Oldies......are you stalking me?

Who cares?.......nice diversion!

Caution: major derail....

On page 91.....Born Again to Serve

A picture of BG Leonard's class in June/July 1953.

....."Dr. Wierwille was with us (Mrs. W. & Don), but of course, he was not a new student, though he wanted to sit through the class again because what BG Leonard was teaching was so thrilling and powerful about the 'gifts' of holy spirit and about spiritual healing."

THREE MONTHS LATER......on page 99 is a picture of "Dr. Wierwille's first pfal class"....October 1953.

Having sat thru BG Leonard's class....and being THRILLED by it (their words, not mine)....vpw runs "his" class.

How conveeeeient!!!!! :P--> :P-->

On page 38......Born Again to Serve

"Rev. Wierwille visited the Higley Press frequently for fellowship with people there....This opportunity I gladly accepted, and the venture proved fruitful. It was also at this press that Rev. Wierwille met Rosalind Rinker, a former missionary to China and Korea...

...She then further suggested, "Why don't you search for the greatest of all things in life which would teach Christians the how of a really victorious life?" He took her advice and began studying the Word more diligently."

This was during the Payne, Ohio tenure....1942.

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Nothing of the kind, unless you think having monuments and rememberances of historical figures is idolatry.

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Oldies......in your own words, YOU STATED THE DIFFERENCE.

Monuments (plural)....of Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Grant, etc.

Remembrances (plural)....men and women who built this country.

Historical figures (plural)....the heritage of our founding fathers to establish freedom.

ALL WHO BUILT TWI ...and later left, the slate of their work is wiped clean. ;)-->

Only Wierwille is at the top of this pyramid of man worship.

Oldies.....while you're visiting the Victor Paul Wierwille Prevailing Word Auditorium be sure to put in your application for twi's PR front man. Rico won't be at that job forever.

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When some take a Bible class.....they see the True and Living Way, the Christ. Others see the preacher.

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Yo Oldies,.....

Twi mandates and vpw apologists concur: Thank the preacher, reverence the teacher, promote "his work" and legacy for future generations.

If I were to honor men, instead of the Lord:

Should I thank and "honor" BG Leonard for his class that taught young vic?

Should I thank and "honor" Martin Luther for the Protestant Movement?

Should I thank and "honor" bible translators for the English version?

Should I thank and "honor" those who secured these holy writings?

Should I thank and "honor" the writers for hearing the voice of God?

Should I thank and "honor" all in the bloodline of Christ?

To you vpw apologists: If we honor and rever man, any man, with excessive adulation and repeated reverence.....is there NO END to such hypocrisy and idolatry?

I challenge you to go to the way international today. VPW's legacy is everywhere! There is a vpw monument near the Garden of Living Waters. There is a stone marker in the BRC. Go to the OSC, the Auditorium, Founders' Hall....what do you find??? Vpw's legacy!

Check out the street names. Of course, Wierwille Road. :D--> Other streets, side streets....Wierwille, Owens, Allen, Sylvia, Lydia....names of trustees and wierwille's sisters.

The wierwille family barn is a focal point of the homestead....and pictured in their promotional stuff. All of this adds to a glaring declaration of twi's idolatrous mindset.

Need I say more?????

So, Oldies......go visit your beloved twi headquarters and OPEN YOUR EYES. Then.....come back here and tell us what you saw?

Oldies.....please tell me ONE MORE TIME about getting away from focusing on "wierwille."

While we're on the subject of "claims to fame".....vpw envisioned a double-decker interstate highway system throughout the U.S. and sent his idea to the department of transportation (or wherever). They never even sent back a response.

Imagine the magnitude of traffic gridlocks when accidents occur. Imagine the ridiculous taskforce that would be needed to detour traffic. Imagine the HUGE highway repair costs. Imagine the cost when infrastructure is damaged or worn or collapsed by earthquakes, etc.

This idea never saw the light of day!

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If some folks would quit focusing endlessly on Wierwille's sins and dirty laundry, maybe the focus wouldn't be on the preacher; but other, more important things.

Does focusing on Wierwille's sins magnify the True and Living Way, the Christ?

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Oldies....could you possibly get thru one sentence without bringing up "wierwille?"

Yeah......the worshipping of man is well documented.

:D--> :D--> :D-->

And, another thing......didn't ole vic say, "It was Dr. Higgins that said to me your teachings sound alot like Dr. Bullinger's work" or thereabouts? Nice name-dropping, huh?

Don't really believe Dr. Higgins ever said this...but, if she did, can't ya just picture vic, after hearing that, running to the nearest library and getting his hands on all of Bullinger's research work and "making it his own."

Make it your own.....how many times have I heard that? Is there a double-meaning there?

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socks, thanks.....appreciate your insight.

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My life is made up of a huge library of experiences, people, events, education, etc. etc. The fact that I was in the Way for a period can't be changed now, and everything adds to that library of experiences I've lived, good or bad. It accumulates whether I like it or not. The things I've done and learned include good and bad, it's really simple.

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I hear what you're saying. Throughout my twi experience.....it was always the real, living, working people that added to special "snapshots" into my "photo album." The list is long.......people on the field, wows, corps, staff. All kinds of unique people are catalogued into some very special moments of my past. THOSE are my favorite snapshots!

Spending time with spirit-filled believers was thrilling....not looking to score browny points with twi leadership.

Working alongside staff/corps, at times, were some of the greatest moments in my twi tenure!

BUT......vpw's legalistic agendas trashed the work and reputation of good men and women alike. As you stated, "It's the Word of God that endures, not people!" was used as a sledgehammer to drive us into nothingness. Either vpw had a sadistic mean-streak to oppress his followers or he was foolish in propounding his out-of-contexts statements at the expense of those who helped to build this ministry.

The legalism mounted with each year. The arrogance mounted with each statement. The abuses mounted with each new corps location. Lording over God's heritage was rampant.

Couldn't vpw spiritually SEE what he was doing? Couldn't the board of trustees stop wierwille's pride and arrogance from blinding his way? Had all of the "top leaders" succombed to vpw adulation? Vpw idolatry?

Even today......"vpw worshippers" come here to GS and put him on a pedestal. They STILL don't get it! These vpw apologists seem to be blinded to the One Body of Christ with members in particular.

The cancerous worshipping of man is well documented in the Bible. When some take a Bible class.....they see the True and Living Way, the Christ. Others see the preacher.

I keep snapshots in my photo album of special people......NOT the roa tent or the brc.

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UncleHairy, your closing statement on that other thread (VP & Craig) was a classic! Thanks.

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To rephrase a statement from the old Vickster himself..."You tell me what you think of Victor Paul Wierwille, and I'll tell you how far you have come in your cult recovery".

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Steve, I know what you mean.

When I think about my twi experience.........I thank God that I was introduced to the work of wonderful men like....

Dr. E.W. Bullinger

Rev. B.G. Leonard

George Mueller

Charles H. Welch

Herbert Lockyer

......and many, many more. :)-->

Twi nostalgia vs Twi reality.......major differences!

At times, a new poster arrives here at Greasespot and highlights many first-hand experiences from "the good old days"....or, twi nostalgia. And yet, later....as the poster is challenged by others, more "snapshots" start to fill "the photo album of twi reality."

Disappointments, setbacks, confrontations, accusations, prejudices, preferential treatment, unjustly fired....now, when the nostalgic veil is lifted (as more posts detail) all can see the scarred and mean-spirited face of twi reality.

There was a time when I think, I too, held onto those nostalgic moments (snapshots).....time with Mrs. Wierwille, VP, UH, Ermal, Dorothy, George Jess and the others. And, AT THAT TIME........these experiences were very special to me. But......NO MORE. Twi reality sickens me. Internet-insight and first-hand accounts of Wierwille's disgusting behavior has NEGATED all that I was led to believe about twi. LCM further NEGATED twi's image and brought its reality into focus. And, Rosalie is simply trying to photocopy what she saw from vpw. Uuuuugh.

I seriously doubt that Elena Whitesxdx would today endorse the same, simple, heart-serving twi hq that she described in her 1970's book? Times change. People change. And besides.....she only spent a day with vpw. She saw what he wanted her to see. He knew he was "on stage".......he wasn't stuuuupid. :D-->

Sure, I can hold onto those "special" memories back in the early days.....BUT I also take into account that my perception of those things were skewed...by youth, by adulation of "leaders," by ROA fun times, by close friendships, by innocent emotions, by manipulated-twi-historical facts, by whatever.

Maybe......just maybe, some don't come to GreaseSpot because they have their Twi Nostalgia Photo Album all tucked away in their treasure chest and they want to keep it THAT WAY?

skyrider

And, when one gets OUT and stays secluded in waybrain....

snapshots of isolated incidents and twi memories are stored away....

along with confusion, guilt, and doubt.

BUT.....with the internet and ex-twi sites, the walls of waybrain come tumbling down.

THANKS, Paw.

And then, when one finally gets a grasp on how twi uses seclusion to keep you IN.....

twi slaps a mark/avoid label on you.....

to keep you OUT.....

and secluded from innies..... :D--> :D-->

tattered and beaten down......yet, still standing

.....out there in left field :D-->

HCW.....I appreciate you stopping in.

Have a great day! :)-->

For you bible fans....this is the updated, internet-savvy version of There is safety in a multitude of counsellors. :)-->

Thankfully, it wasn't long after I left twi that Waydale was born. And now, with Greasespot opening its doors....I have been privileged to see a panoramic viewpoint of twi rather than their "BRC snapshot on a sunny day."

So many gnawing questions have been answered! And, as more posters arrive at The Cafe....the newly-expressed viewpoints can sure spark some good dialogue and insight.

SECLUSION....is one of twi's starting main objectives. Always has been.

...in pfal, don't ask questions and don't seek others' counsel

...after pfal, just stop reading other material for the next 3 months

...after faithful attendence, go wow -- leave job/college/family/friends

...after wow, go corps -- major seclusion (inresidence)

...holidays, twi events to keep innies away from family

...internet, stay away from ex-twi sites

And now, when some started posting on that Florida website.....it shuts down. Is it temporarily under construction or "under twi mandates and bod control?"

Seclusion. Absolutely! Twi cannot remain afloat without keeping the workers focused on rowing the oars.

skyrider

Ripped the "Welcome" in half.

Ex-tree-mely accurate, no less. :D-->

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What I'd say now is he talked as if he had this vision - but had no consistency about any of the management of it - or even the priorities involved. He'd blow hot and cold. One day something or someone would be the greatest and next day it would not. There was never any logical plan. This was pawned off as "being spiritual" but in reality it's a very common pattern among alcoholics.

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My3Cents.....yeah, vpw pawned off all kinds of "hot ideas" that were presented with a spiritual backdrop.

At one time, Camp Gunnison was going to be a "spiritual vacation spot" where people in their sunset years could enjoy "their" retirement home on Way property. A nice restaurant was going to be built up on the hill by the water tower. More buildings across the river. All sorts of grandeur ideas.

The sno-way.....an all-terrain vehicle was being built by Al Grumelxt and another guy. It was going to revolutionize all-terrain transportation.

At one time.....some Indy race car driver was wanting vpw (twi) to sponsor him. Vpw highly considered this as a great promotional avenue for twi. In the end, I think that some finally talked vp out of it.

High Country Caravan entertainment and performing at the Grand Ole Opry......vpw's vision was to keep this stuff going. Why should "his" people expect any less.

Rock of Ages on a region level......why not?

Ideas, ideas, ideas.....and yet, vpw was "limited" until his people rose up in their believing. Guilt motivation? Absolutely.

You know....this was bound to happen. The billboard sign has 6 poles, which everybody knows is spiritual imperfection and therefore, a conduit for devilish attacks.

Besides, whoever put this billboard sign under that tree should have KNOWN this would happen!

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