skyrider

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By 1980-81....cgeer was "given" Europe.......in essence, cgeer was Europe's trunk coordintor, corps director, corps coordinator, and more.....and he later held the copyright documents to the pfal material. Cgeer was given a huge chunk of responsibility!!!

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And further......by 1984, cgeer was setting policies and procedures for the european believers. Cgeer told finnxgan, the world-wide outreach coordinator -->, that NO LONGER would european followers attend roa every year.....but rather, every third year.

And.....with cgeers interests and adeptness in languages, he was moving in on the african work. The translations department at hq had many abrasive communications with cgeer on these issues.

It seemed that......even though cgeer was given europe to oversee....HE WANTED MORE.

As founder and president of twi, vpw knew that there would come a time when he needed to step down and retire from his work. The ministry calendar year of 1981-1982 fit "like a hand in a glove" for this planning......December 31, 1981 marked vpw's 65th birthday and the 1982 year marked the 40th Anniversary of wierwille's ministry.

For at least five years in running, vpw and cgeer had a growing relationship and mutual interests on many fronts. Clearly, cgeer was far more than vp's driver......cgeer was vp's valet, bodyguard, confidante, dog trainer, associate, reading partner, theorist, and more. Cgeer taught and publicly told the corps how he minutely studied vpw and mrs. in every facet....so that he, cgeer, and his wife could be their closest aides.

On another front, lcm aspired vp's approval.....he sought vp's advice and leadership in countless situations. For years, lcm would emcee and/or teach before vpw came on stage. Lcm enjoyed being front and center. The corps program was his "baby project" and no one was going to take that from him.

It is my opinion that vpw, in strategizing his last couple of years as president, saw the escalating egos of cgeer and lcm converging towards collision. Other leaders were in the mix as well......but vpw's "grooming" of his selection was well underway. Also, vpw had endorsed donna to be craig's wife.....for furthering the work of the ministry.

By 1980-81....cgeer was "given" Europe.......in essence, cgeer was Europe's trunk coordintor, corps director, corps coordinator, and more.....and he later held the copyright documents to the pfal material. Cgeer was given a huge chunk of responsibility!!!

Yes, reluctantly....vpw sent cgeer away. In the BRC, the night cgeer was acknowledged for this responsibility and undertaking vpw wept sorely......like a man saying farewell to his closest friend. The BRC sendoff was one of the most emotional nights I'd ever witnessed in twi history.

Back to martindale.....1981-82 was his president-elect year leading up to the "transferring of the mantle" and the videotaping of this occasion. Lcm assumed his installed authority and ascended to his own unique leadership, distancing himself from his mentor.

After all that, here's my question? Did vpw foresee the clashing of egos of these two men....cgeer and lcm....and strategically put an ocean of water between them knowing that they couldn't possibly work together? And more yet.....KNOW that divisions would be on the horizon and follow his death?

skyrider

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Just another thought. What makes you think they WANT your forgiveness? That is the LAST thing in the world that they think you need. You are a copout, a stain in their otherwise "perfect" existence.

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Yeah, H...........what they WANT......is NO MORE LAWSUITS.

Twi wants to distance themselves from lcm's avalanche of atrocities.....and find another scenic route to their banking destination.

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Even though I went through the Way Corps, I wasn't an insider at all. Some of these reputations were simply known because TWI was really a small place. If you moved around a lot like I did, you got to know a lot of people - whether you were in the Corps or not.

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Galen/Hope

As a corps grad, the "insider label" is nowhere near my door. I tend to think that most corps, who moved every two or three years, were NOT insiders who tracked reputation-dirt, or whatever.

I have/had NO knowledge of SB's reputation --- NONE. The only reason I knew who was being discussed in that conversation is the hints gave her away......4th corps.....clegy woman..... southern belle.

To figure out the person....for me, it was only a matter of elimination. The 4th corps had about 70-80 or so (?)........clergywoman -- only 18-20 women were ordained in twi...... southern belle --- that narrowed it down to say 2 or 3............ with the initials of SB..... BINGO.

Being corps and working on staff....... I was required to learn people's names! :)-->

on the brighter side.....

i know a couple who went BACK inresidence and it WOKE THEM UP

examples are everywhere....even here.....of blind allegiance (at one time)....i know, i was one of them.

it only takes a few set of circumstances to TRIGGER the brain cells......to move the legs......to start walking.........AWAY.

never give up, wondering :)-->

As many have posted before......twi systematically closes doors from an INDEPENDENT life and lifestyle.

Learned helplessness......describes it fairly well. All the psychological, social, mental, physical barriers keep twi followers from the LIFE on the outside.

Maybe, a better term for some........deathers.

Too descriptive??

They are deathers....hook, line, sinker, even unto death.

wondering,

Twi needs more people to fill all those empty beds at camp gunnison. In the past few years, the corps grad levels have been pathetic.

I would speculate that the gunnison corps guy will be running the joint. Twi doesn't move people around too much anymore.

And......this "call em back into training" thing has a history. I think the 4th corps were called back in.....to buff off the rough edges, ya know. Some corps live in guilt and condemnation for years.....and this is one avenue twi propounds for corps grads.

Same old reasons, different day. -->

skyrider

In twi's twisted legalism........a strict obedience to going two-by-two

(at least) is DEMANDED.

Yet, if death occurs.............a twi follower dies ALONE.

ALWAYS......."the ministry be blameless" card is played. Sheeeeeeesh.

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Now I read my Blue Book and marvel at how God snuck it into my library, and then shined a spotlight on it in recent years, right when I needed it most.

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...And.....Mike's gonna make this known....like it hasn't been known....since vpw himself got this dictation from snow-pump revelation.

12 moves....too many years

In pfal.....vpw describes "how people get off the word by focusing on things they don't like".....someone doesn't like my tie, so I (vp) take my tie off....

....someone doesn't like my shirt, so I take my shirt off......someone doesn't like my suit, pretty soon we're going to get down to the bare facts peee-pul.

....it's the word, the word.....I've staked my whole like on this word (blah, blah, blah)....it's NOT what people say ABOUT you.

Indoctrination....indoctrination....thru successive classes, leaders, situations..... it was "sin" to bring accountability into present situations.

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yeah snake geer figured he knew who he could get slithering under his control. looks like he failed with ricardo but johnny is still doing so

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ex,.......yeah, ricardo had a career to go back to......a pilot??....or something in the aviation field in argentina.

on the other hand, johnny had nothing.......no where else to go.

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Can someone tell me what the "Corps Coordinators" did, as opposed to the Corps _DIRECTOR_?

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Galen, others probably know better than I do......but here's the simple version:

Corps Director --- Oversees the corps program, establishes corps policies and procedures and gives directives to the corps coordinators. The corps director was responsible to report back to board of trustees and/or trustee responsible for said campus.

Corps Coordinator-- Oversees executive committee of corps campus, receives directives from corps director, coordinates work with assistant corps coordinator and oversees all corps activities.

Remember......at one time, there were five corps campus locations....hq, rome city, emporia, gunnison and tinnie, new mexico.

With your remark about Stxve Strxzpxc......he was the gunnison corps coordinator for several years, (1985-1991 ??).........martindale allegedly fired him for "not standing strongly with twi" or something along those lines. Gunnison staff, at the time, saw a much different version. With the Hornxys at gunnison at that time, some staffers were not blind.

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I'm wondering... if most of us knew about these personality flaws - whether by experience or word-of-mouth - why didn't any of us say anything? And if we heard about these people - can we assume that the Grand Poobahs at HQ's knew about them as well?

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Hope, like so many other things in twi.....the landscape kept changing around us.

For years, we went thru the "lock box revelation" period...

Then, there was the "genuine suspicion" era.....

Then, there was the "biblical confrontation one on one" .....

If that didn't work......"in the mouth of two or three witnesses" go for it....

If that didn't work......"bring the whole dang fellowship".....

And lastly, it went back to.......lcm will tell you what to do!....

What the "revelation" is today...........I have NO IDEA.

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The PFAL book was changed .......(snip)

One of the keys I am using in working "all without distinction" is I'm searching out ALL the places where these words and similar ones come up in the writings. The "all" issue comes up in different ways in JCNG and in GMWD. Plus I'm slowly working all the places where Dr used the word "exception" and where he used "distinction."

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Another key....you might want to try, Mike........"search the scriptures whether those things are so"...........think outside the pfal box.

Just trying to help :)-->

Yes,...twi's bod refused.

When the New Knoxville high school officials had these plans in the works....to visit Washington DC and see this museum....lcm & co. went toe-to-toe on this issue. From what he told us on corps meeting (mid-90s -- ??)....the NK school officials "revised" the junior/senior trip.

This was an ongoing "debate" for a few years.

Any change?

Does twi still refuse to allow their high school kids the opportunity of going to Washington DC and visiting The Holocaust Museum?

Anyone know what twi's policy is today?

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everybody knows what a whackjob organization they are. And, in spite of that, WayWorld still CARRIED those books in their bookstore.

Not a footnote someplace like, "Yeah, this book is 'out there', but it does have a couple of interesting facts like -" or an offhand comment to some of the insiders (corps, etc.) that maybe they should take a look at the book if they get a chance so they could garner this or that detail from it and then look into it further. NO! None of that. They openly endorsed the books (along with "The Marxist Minstrels" and a few other dopey things) by offering them for sale in their bookstore.

Dance around it however you'd like. WayWorld was heavily leaning towards the white supremacist mindset. Our beloved "Fuhrer" at the top, the "S.S." Corps, and all the wonderful little "Brown Shirt" twigites, the parallels are obvious to anyone who cares to look.

There's also the quote I've heard from several independant sources that VPW said, in confidence in the motorcoach - with reference to WWII - that the "wrong" side won the war.

Maybe that's apochryphal, I dunno. But it sure seems to agree with his taste in books and general mindset towards politics...

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Some things just need repeating!....................thanks Geo.

Okay........following Hammer's point, I pulled out Bullinger's work How to enjoy the Bible.

p. 109......."This is the key to the understanding of those many passages where the words all and every and world are used in the New Testament. All must mean one of two things: either 'all without exception' or 'all without distinction;' and it is in this latter sense it is constantly used in contrast with the one nation of Israel." (bottom of page)

Now.....this forum is NOT the doctrinal forum.....and I have no intention of quibbling over the meaning and nuances and all that.

BUT.....WHAT I DO FIND INTERESTING TO NOTE.....is that in twi, we were always taught that vpw came up with "his research" INDEPENDENT of Bullinger. God showed vpw these things.....and he taught them (in pfal 68).

Later.....it seems that even vpw was confused on this issue and revamped what he "borrowed" from Bullinger. Granted, to vpw's credit....he changed his teaching on this "biblical key to research."

Yet....to this day, the foundational keys in pfal are still confusing for many.

Yana.....good points!

The suggestion of a "general".....is basicly an order.

A "private" doesn't ask how high to jump.....HE JUMPS!

Yeah......"reckless unaccountability" was vp's mode of operation. -->

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Back in 1973 after I first took PFAL, I was given a twi bookstore list. On it was something interesting called "A Law Course For The Active Patriot", which could be gotten from another source other than twi.

I ordered it, got it in mail, and looked it over. I was stunned. It WAS white supremist literature! They said the real meaning of the word ADAM was "white man", and so forth!

I said to myself "this can't be" and immediately wrote a letter to Milford Bowen, the head of the bookstore at that time, with a photocopy of the offensive material and complaining about its contents.

Shortly thereafter, the source was removed from the bookstore list.

Now I'm very sure that had TWI actually been a white supremist group, that little item would have been left on the bookstore list for all to absorb.

What some attribute to white supremacy alliances just doesn't wash; it could be something simple as shoddy research work. They didn't do their homework...didn't plan ahead...didn't have wisdom in these areas.

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Oldies......never heard of that one. It clarifies more....

And yeah....long gone are the days when men like Mxlford Bxxxn ran twi's bookstore. So many good folks helped to build twi.....and later, saw the deepening agendas formulating and left....never to return.

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I used to visit HQ in '71 while still in high school, we had moved from NY to Columbus, so it was an easy trip. We knew people there, would hang out in friends' units, etc. I had seen some spotlight magazines at one time - I forget exactly where or when - they were more like large pamplets. That's why when we got our new "secret constitutions" and there was the Spotlight subscription form, I thought, oh - nothing really about it, but oh, yeah, I've seen this before.

I think Igotout put a copy of the back cover here in a thread once - I think he still has his also.

I had always wondered where VP got all this "top secret" "heavy" government info he only shared in the advanced class. It wasn't until I read the book years later on staff that everything fell into place.

Also, quite a few of his top guys were avid readers of Soldier of Fortune Magazine - you know survival stuff, etc. I read it for awhile on the recommendation of one Rev. while on staff at hq. VPs bodyguards were sent for training at one of these militia camps in the southwest. I know they were thrown out of one, and ended up training at another. Just, a lot of b.s. stuff went on.

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Sunesis.......more and more pieces of the puzzle. Amazing...

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Part of all smear campaigns is to malign those who don't follow a certain train of thought. Any public figure who doesn't support Israel and says so publically, for whatever reason is labelled anti-semitic by the Anti Defamation League. Doesn't matter what the facts are, they are labelled and forever maligned. This labelling and maligning is a very powerful technique to smear individuals and groups.

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When someone like vpw endorses, propounds, initiates, advocates, and indoctrinates others towards conspiracy theories and anti-government seeding......its very challenging to sidestep this alignment. Besides, twi's in-house BOOKSTORE was/is promoting it with sales.

This "research key from pfal" keeps surfacing on GS.

As I remember it.....vpw taught pfal students this to distinguish the word all. Further, it clarified two groups:

1) All without exception

2) All with distinction

Yet, a regular poster here at GS keeps referring to it as "all without exception, all without distinction." Maybe he's right....but that's NOT what I remember being taught.

And......if it's unclear from its premise......how much more confusion resides in this one "research key" of pfal????

Anyone got a pfal book to look this up?

skyrider

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Originally posted by Radar:

As Sunesis said......the secret constitution, etc were distributed first to the 7th corps. HMMMMM who do we know that was 7th corps.....hmmmmm, SnakeGeer?

Many, many, many of vpw's stranger *concepts* began with his former coach driver. Snake was easily the MOST PARANOID and the most avid CONSPIRACY THEORY follower that I ever met. He was behind the illuminati garbage and the MALPACK garbage. He had a GREAT influence on vpw.

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VP & CG........not to be confused with lcm's VP and Me transcripts.

The collaborating interests between vpw and cgeer could easily document an extensive study that drastically altered twi.....twi's trustees.....twi's corporate policies.....twi's corps. And, further....with copyright privileges in hand and "franchising pfal to geerite followers" the chasm widens.

Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories.......vpw and cgeer had similar and growing interests in the books and material they read. How deep these interests ran....who knows?

I do have one incident that has puzzled me all these years. I was sitting with vpw in his motorcoach discussing some things. Cgeer came into the coach briskly, looked at vp and said, "He's here......on grounds." Abruptly, they left without another word. Cgeer drove and they left hq grounds. Puzzled, I left the coach and never said a word to others.....thinking that, if spoken, it might endanger vpw or someone else.

For years, the vpw/cgeer relationship was far greater than many ever knew. Services rendered by cgeer.........coach driver, valet, bodyguard, conspiracy theorist, book enthusiast, dog trainer, corps coordinator, vpw mannerisms, etc.

Some could easily argue that it was a premeditated form of identity theft.