skyrider

Yeah,...thanks Sunesis.

You sure jarred the brain cells!

Those years....1976-1979 came flying back.....Wake Up America!....Malpacks....The New World Order.....Illuminati......33 Degree Masons....Ted Patrick and Cults.....Jim Jones.....Government Cover-ups......Seed Men

Even that 'music book'.......subliminal stuff in all rock music.

Everything,..........us verses 'the world.'

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Our PFAL class is the 1976 edition, I think.

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Galen, hopefully others will come to our rescue on this issue.....because, for the life of me, I don't recall a 1976 pfal edition.

From what I remember:

1968.....pfal fnd class

1975.....adv class

1977.....PFAL '77 (duh?)

1979.....AC '79 (another no-brainer)

Of course, the advanced study classes were videotaped too....RM, Keys to Research, CFS, etc.

alfakat.....that was my guess too...

....and then I read your post....

....can we split the door prize?

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Why he was brought in to help as a Trustee after POP, I have no idea. Perhaps some of the folks who were at HQ at the time might know better than me. I will say, he's a very sweet, kind man.

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For one thing.....cgeer was the one DIRECTING twi's trustees "how to fix the problems." Cgeer was 7th corps and Rxcardo was 7th corps as well.

I could be wrong on this.....but I seem to remember something where cgeer said that Rxcardo had great leadership qualities (country coord. of Argentina), strong integrity and a pure heart.

For 2 1/2 years......cgeer was the man "in charge" which turned twi on its ear. :D-->

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BTW, skyrider, wasn't the real exodus in the spring of '89? That's when LCM gave his infamous "my way or the highway" directive and all those with any doubts whatsoever about the wisdom of WayWorld mandates were unceremoniously shown the door...

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Yeah, George......you've got a point there.

In some ways, it depends on how one looks at "exodus"........

August 1986.......Gxxr read POP at corps week -- soon many started exiting

1987..............JAL, RD and others spoke out -- "the exodus" had begun

1988..............More clergy/leaders left ----- "the twi exodus" was in full swing

March 8, 1989.....LCM public stands against CGeer -- the infamous directive ensues

Most had ALREADY made their decision to leave throughout this 1988 year....and were just getting their ducks in a row. :D-->

But yeah......I guess 1989 might be the best year to clarify it.

sky

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I do think it's telling that part of vee pee pee's agenda was to push propaganda that had absolutely nothing to do with the Bible and helping people understand it or live better lives.

I think it's telling that Biblical research isn't the only thing he plagarized and claimed to be from his own brain. Which brings us back to his motives and intentions with starting TWI.

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Thanks, Belle.

Another point, if I may.......through the years, I started looking at this book The Thirteenth Tribe as a piece of research with "shock value." VP wanted to interject new "research" into the learning adventure of the advanced class.....much in the same way that vp used Bullinger's work on the four crucified with Jesus.

Sorta like......"pulling the rug out from underneath one's previous foundation"

SEE, you young whipper-snappers have ALOT TO LEARN!!.......as vpw sat at the teacher's desk in front of the advanced class students.

--> -->

And, who got RAILED for their "believing" to stop the thunderstorms???....

.....the way corps --> --> -->

.....VPW and LCM hated NOT BEING IN CONTROL.

Well......I know who DID NOT put up with it....

.....HQ's Research Team

.....one by one, they left....even W. Cxmmins

.....only R Geek, Catcup and Clxxp were left and they were not at hq (if memory serves me)

.....and, finally these THREE left twi also (bullinger) :)-->

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Originally posted by Sunesis:

I think it all came down to who was chosen, and who wanted the title "rev." bad enough. The Rev. carrot is very important, because that was the top, and that was what many young men strived for. I cannot tell you what an impetus that was for so many men - and they would do whatever it took to get it.

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As with every grouping......there are exceptions.

Twi's clergy was vastly different.....in experience, in goals, in leadership styles, in salted commitment towards twi. Sure I could name names to give vivid examples.......but I choose to refrain from that approach.

Some clergy left twi in the 60s.....more clergy left in the 70s.....MOST of twi's clergy exited in the 80s......and probably about three dozen in the 90s (and after). Each with his or her own reasons for leaving.

Yes, the clergy status opened doors for an aspiring leader to keep moving upward.........BUT imo it was the personalized selection and grooming from vpw and/or lcm that MADE THE DIFFERENCE. It was really quite easy to sit back and SEE who the mog was "grooming for his purposes."

Besides.....if truth be known, it seemed like the clergy were very little more than top-notch corps. While on staff, I spent time with several clergy who were department coordinators or whatever. Many of these clergy had never performed a wedding, funeral, etc. One of these clergy women.....who was handicapped.....just wanted to be a support to her husband in way builders.

But yes......those who were ego-driven, groomed, had a clergy status and hobnobbed with vpw or lcm.....YES, those were the ones who'd walk over anybody to have the mog's approval.

Wayfer Not!

Why am I not surprised? I had invited two beautiful college girls to a city-wide twi function/open house with three branches coming together. With background music and some warm fellowship time, things started out fine.

Then......D*vid stepped to the microphone and for the next 8-10 minutes was the most obnoxious emcee I'd ever seen BEFORE going inresidence. I was absolutely appalled.

Needless to say, those two college girls quickly left and I never saw them again.

And, I've NEVER forgotten how D*vid made a complete buffoon of himself that night.

The 17th corps were inresidence at the time of cgeer's poop paper......

And, lcm repeatedly said that these 17th corps were at a major crossroads. If they stood strong with lcm, the corps program would survive.

From what I vaguely remember, Mxgnelli and Ruppx were 17th corps. Interesting to see where these guys are now......

So......in 2009

........the theme will be...

"The Promised Land of the Prevailing Word: Building Biblical Understanding and Researching Ministry Truths as We Master The Principles of God's Word to Strengthen Our Lives with The Fruit of the Spirit and Prevailing in Our Culture in Our Day and Time."

:D--> :D-->

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Therefore "present truth" is nonsensical, and merely a ploy whereby others can be controlled by the knower of the "present truth" changing it at whim.

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outandabout,

About a year ago, someone here at GS did a good piece of work regarding "present truth".....and, in a nutshell described it this way:

Present truth......NOT in terms of time (past, present, future)

Present truth......in II Peter is used in the context of location...that it is HERE, it's available, its now present.

It debunked about every principle of research that twi claims to employ. :D-->

That's what I remember.

Thanks Raf & Jonny...

Maybe I was sleeping during some of these class sessions......BECAUSE I still don't get it?

What does this book.....this "private interpretation" of Koestler.....have to do with my spiritual walk before God?

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Am I the ONLY one who never connected the dots on this one? What did wierwille want us advanced class students to take from all of this?

This book, promoted at twi's advanced classes, goes into extensive detail on "true jewish" heritage and history. Quite honestly, I never grasped why vpw wanted this book in twi's bookstore??

With the marking of the 60th Anniversary of the Liberation of Auschwitz concentration camps.....this book came to mind.

In going to my first Advanced Class, I was overwhelmed by all the TANGENTS that vpw introduced to us students????? Could someone please explain this to me? I only skimmed parts of the book.....before moving on to other material.

Thanks.

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Why is "The Promised Land of the Prevailing Word" even in there? Wouldn't "Building Biblical Understanding" be sufficient for a Biblical Research Ministry?

It seems like they threw two themes together, thus creating confusion and ambiguity.

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outandabout,

"The Promised Land of the Prevailing Word"...........martindale

"Building Biblical Understanding"....................rosie (with back to basics plug)

In not-so-subtle twittledumb terminology......the promised land part ties back to marty martindale's reign. He was the modern "joshua"......self-proclaimed.

And, the building biblical understanding stuff......helps set the stage for rosie to platform their new upcoming foundational class. And, the innies say in unison......yup, yup sounds good. -->

IMO....it ties martindale micromanagement to rosie regimentation. That's all.

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.......they are caretakers of a defunct cult. They are the residual shadows of a bygone day...they are the ghosts of dead snakeoil salesmen, they market misery and rejoice in manipulation. They see life through the prism of mythological thought and blackmail the innocent with threats of misery both in this life and their necrodestination. They are the lice of this planet.

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WOW, houseisarockin.................WOW!

Amazingly descriptive! :)-->

NOW....WAIT....JUST....ONE....MINUTE.

They say its "new research".....but really...

...its only re-packaged old stuff with slight variations.

BINGO........I see, I see.

smurfette,

Yeah....reading and studying.....reading and studying....ad nauseum

Why not read a chapter....and ALL MONTH LONG just live and practice what one read???

Ever-learning and unable to come to a ginosko...to KNOW by experience....knowledge of the truth.

Fallatious spirit......isn't that the "spiritual category?" :D-->

First of all.....a heavy dose of skepticism should be measured out when looking at any of twi's "new research"....or present truth.

Why is twi panting.....like an foot in heat (O.T. reference in adv class).....to find something new, something different? Does it always have to be a competitive marketing plan against the christian churches?

By the mid-90s, even the Region coordinators had to check "their revelation" and insight with martindfail. Even.....the highly touted revelation manifestations....that every advanced class should/could operate....were NONEXISTENT in twi's household.

New research?........ :D--> :D--> :D-->

Remember.....ALL NINE ALL THE TIME.

In the 90s, this proclamation disappeared from twi language. It seems that even the followers have come to realize the hypocrisy. Who needs new research, new classes, new books.....and crossing another bridge.

Maybe, they should retreat back OVER the bridge....to the land from whence they came?

And besides.....twi needs a RESEARCH TEAM to do quality research. And that, my folks....they do NOT have!!

skyrider

I dunno how accurate this test is....

it took me, like 2 seconds.....

really :)-->

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Wow that sure is stupid sh1t. Why am I not surprised?

Ha ha ha ha ha the guy came in the back and you didn't stand!

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While in two or three corps/staff situations.....VPW did this..

SAME REPROOF-RAISIN' RESULT! --> -->

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They keep references to him quiet and subtle because they know that people are peeved and don't take his sins as lightly as the BOD and little wannabees do, but they also know if they openly worship him they will run those people off and that would impact the income stream.

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Belle....yeah, the income stream. :)-->

MONEY.......always canoeing DOWNstream, it's easier. :D--> :D-->

George.....excellent post!

And........in a few years the "de-Rivenbarkisms" will be washed away as the tides of time roll on. No one stands (except its founder, vp) to leave an imprint, let alone a legacy. :D-->

It's the present truth, the present truth and NOTHING but the present truth!

The delete button has become a stroke of twi survival.

For those who have first-hand knowledge of twi events and situations, it is apparent that twi's history is being rewritten. Clearly, there has been...and always will be, twi's public release that chronicles their past. And, then....another in-house, prevailing household version is interjected at staff meetings and corps training.

For those of us who stayed after the mass exodus of 1988.....the process of rewriting twi history was like high tide that washes away the footprints in the sand.

After 1988....ex-twi leaders' works (books, tapes, materials) were boxed and stored away

After 1988....ex-leaders, ex-corps, and ex-followers were considered anathema

After 1988....martindale declared major aspects of vpw's work as old-wineskins

After 1988....mortgages approved by The Way Credit Union were now devilish-debt

After 1988....the "present truth" could debunk last month's teachings

After 1988....crossing the "bridge" was propaganda to "rewrite one's conscience"

Yes, I know.......this is all too simplistic, many, MANY aspects were shifting and changing. But for the sake of illustration.....certainly 1988 was a crossroads year. Then.....

After 2000....twi's lawyers advise them to get rid of martindale

After 2000....waydale gains high exposure to declare abuses

After 2000....two lawsuits against twi are settled out of court

After 2000....another exodus ensues.....a few thousand leave

After 2000....greasespot cafe continues to give voice

Twi's programs......minutemen, fellow laborers, wow, college wow, military wow, way disciple, corps, recognized corps, special corps, university of life.......all have gone through major changes or been discarded altogether.

Twi's classes.......being a class-oriented organization, their foundational class needs to be REWRITTEN and implemented. The 18-year reign of martindale is history, forgotten history.....a chapter that will be deleted.

And.........therein lies the power of words. :)-->

skyrider