TheInvisibleDan

(lol) so true. I am hard pressed to imagine anyone surfing past this site acquiring any meaningful impression from such pitifully bland material, presented like dried white toast on a stick. "We have dried white toast. It's on a stick. Write us."

Some days I'm a "universalist" - other days, I'm not (lol). It is absolutely horrendous what people do to other people. True, though it would seem that "the redeemed" themselves had not all chosen such a calling and place predetermined for them by God "before the foundation of the world". I suspect that the roots of this hatred vary from person to person. Some of this may stem from the natural rivalry between one religion or ideology against another. To be expected. Other cases may stem from one's personal bad experiences and encounters with corrupt representatives of God and Christ (unfortunately, there have been many evil things committed in the name of God and Christ over the centuries). In any event, these may never have had sufficient opportunity to learn of "what kind of spirit' Christ is, a Spirit which is "benevolent to both the evil and the ungrateful" (upon which even His own disciples, blind in their anger toward certain inhospitable Samaritans, would rather have had Christ invoke a pillar of fire out of the heaven to consume them, as Elijah had done). In the manner we may view the forseeable future, perhaps you're right. But infinity is good long time toward accomplishing many things, perhaps such things not revealed within the scope of our sacred writings. But the idea of existing again in a different realm ( be it a future earth, a different world in another universe, an alternate dimension) is certainly provocative enough. One yearns for the slightest glimpse. A new trailer for the upcoming attraction, a new preview. :) Danny

Are you absolutely certain about that? If such was the case, why is the "intent" given to "the Church" to make known to these principalities and powers in the heavenlies "the manifold wisdom of God" if these powers in some way already had access to God's presence, to Whom they could inquire of Him directly? Do they currently surround the throne of the Highest, singing hymns of "Happy Happy Happy, Joy Joy joy" all eternity long, or will they also require undergoing some manner of salvation to get to that point? Danny

Onioneater - Wow, Farmington, Maine? I was just up in that area the early part of last week (for a funeral unfortunately) Beautiful area. Perhaps you've bumped into my brother Steve in the area? Hope your wife is feeling better. Danny

Hi Sunesis, You may turn out correct. But nonetheless, some thoughts. Yet of such a hopelessly corrupt "nature" were we - God, out the vast wealth of His love, compassion, and goodness, saves us, who "by nature" were "children of wrath". Given His character of goodness, I wouldn't rule out that He may have something similar ultimately in store for fallen angels and lost spirits which, not unlike us, had no hope without God in the world...while we were "enemies" we were conciliated to God. If He can pull that off with our species He could probably do the same with the angelic species, all those thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers in Col.1:16 which might also be construed further in that context as being recipients of "the peace through the blood of His cross" (Col 1:20). If these angelic beings are already in some way regarded perfect or pure in their nature, requiring no change or transformation, why do they still apparently require "the blood of His cross"? (cf. Eph.3:10 - the obligation of the church is to make known to principalities and powers on high "the manifold wisdom of God" - perhaps our nission really is to preach the Good News to the entire creation). I hope it's not literal, because I can just imagine the future book of "Genesis" concerning the "new Paradise" of the new creation might read something along these lines: "Of every lake in the garden ye may freely swim, but of the fiery lake in the midst of the garden... (oh oh, I don't think this is going to turn out well) And the wise serpent said to the harmless doves, 'But if you go swimming in that lake, you will know all that God knows, and will rediscover who you once really were in times of old....' ...And God said From whence do these darn serpents keep coming?" :) Danny

The only "scripture" I could think of reciting at my Mom's recent service was that saying she learned from her grandfather, and which she quoted to my sister and I when we got involved with the Way: "God help those who help themselves And God help those who get caught helping themselves!" (followed by her usual laugh) No more appropriate words could have been uttered at that time (lol). Danny

In case Apple is looking, Roy, I thought your suggestion, that he could quote from Bible versions in the public domain (KJV, or I might add, the translations of Murdock or Etheridge based on the Syriac done in the 1800s) was very reasonable and eloquent. Danny

Why not? 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled Col.1:14-21 (KJV) 9 And to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God... Eph.3:9-10 (KJV)

I've been considering the past year that the salvation of Christ may extend even to Satan and the demons. Danny

Actually I found Apple's idea of having different threads devoted to each book of the New Testament to be a fascinating idea, allowing for anyone to express their personal commentary and 'insights" on the different NT Books. Rather than having these threads compressed into one thread, a sub-forum in this doctrinal basement might serve better. With the threads arranged in their familiar canonical order to help readers locate material faster. Apple, what English version are you using- Is it a translation (your own?) based on the Aramaic Pedangta texts? The Way did once upon a time produce decent reference works in this area. Danny

The group behind this writing - late first century, most likely early second century -had apparently undergone a recent schism. It may be that they were allied to a certain church with which they had a falling out. My opinion is that their former sister church comprised of Marcionites. The Johannites and Marcionites shared a lot of points in common whereas their differences came about over the issue of docetism and the denial of the Marcionites that Jesus was actually the "Christ" expected of the Jews. I think even the title "Anti-Christ' is a deliberate play upon the now lost work "Anti-thesis" authored by Marcion, setting forth the contrasts between the Old Testament demiurge and the New Testament God revealed by the heavenly "Krestos". There are a number of ancient paintings and sculpures depicting John and Marcion together, usually of John dictating his gospel while Marcion wrote it down, but getting fired for having added a few of his own things into the text. "The Enigma of the Fourth Gospel' by Robert Eisler shows plates of a few of these paintings. So the seeming historical evidence of this former association and subsequent split two men and two communities. Reading the epistles of 'John" only underscores this impression, at least for me. Danny

I remember watching the Saturday morning Beatles cartoons. And that band which sort of looked like the Beatles on "The Munsters". Aunt Gloria barfing out chunks into the kitchen sink on New Years Eve. "Lost in Space". I remember watching the moonwalk with my father late at night. And being somewhat disappointed that no strange alien life emerged from the craters to gobble up Neil Armstrong.

Behaving more like sheep than men. Blind Obedience.

I oft wonder how things would have turned out had while alive, Wierwille publically confessed his crimes, exploitations and wrongdoings and stepped down. It's really quite tragic that he didn't, because it could have become a golden opportunity to putting the "grace" stuff through the ultimate test. At the very least, with some confession and humility, his legacy may not have turned out as irreversibly jaded as it is now. At this point I don't feel hatred toward Wierwille - rather, great sadness and disappointment, at the thought of one having had at one time the resources and opportunities to effect so much good for so many, but rather, having used all this toward committing evil and selfish gain, and now, being dead, has no more opportunity in this earthly plane to rectify make up for those wrongs, in any way possible. Man, did he really blow it. Danny

Mstar, that's a cool picture. My late mother use to tell me about how my great grandmother suffered a heart attack and collapsed on the kitchen floor. This was sometime in the 1930s. Relatives on the scene massaged her chest and got her heart beating again. When she gained consciousness, she was angry with them for having removed her from the beautiful garden where she had been, filled with brilliant flowers and trees. In-a-gadda-da-vida. My late parents just as well had been "raptured". Death came to them "in the twinkling of an eye" amidst their usual business; here one second, departed the next, released from their old fleshly garments. Danny

The author, Walter Martin, is dead. Deader than a doornail. And has been for quite some time now. Whoever recently "updated" his work must have been a "ghost" writer.

The old guy with the hat who played the saw. I recall seeing him at every Rock carrying his saw case. Played a saw with a violin bow. Amazing stuff.

T-Bone - thank you so much for the correction - www.eastwoodguitars.com I also hadn't realized that it had been a different type of guitar behind "that sound", which I think is also employed in some of those old "Spaghetti westerns". It begs for a tremelo bar though. I'm reluctant to pick one up without one, unless one can be added. I was considering converting one of my old electrics to a Bartitone by switching to a Baritone neck, but for $49 more than the price of a neck, one can pick up an OLP MM5. Ah, decisions, decisions... Kathy, thank you again so much for your kind words. I've got to rummage through 50 pages here to find that link. :) Danny

Hello Ala Prochaine, Chas, Chatty Kat, Socks and T-Bone, There are some nice sound samples of the Eastwood's model, "Sidejack Baritone" at www.eastwood.com On the sidebar, if you scroll down all the guitars (which you most likely won't be able to without checking some of these out along the way, lol), it's listed last under "Other" models. Click on "Sidejack Baritone" which brings up a page featuring sound samples. As Socks mentioned (good to see you too Socks!), the neck is longer and the strings a heavier gauge (some even convert these to a 6 string bass); this design is aimed to help the sustain of the strings, which otherwise sound flubby and "muddy" on a regular guitar if tuned as low. It appears to be a great fingerpickin' design, providing the flexibility to play either (or both) deep bass and high notes. Of course, the 7-string guitars might be worth checking out as well. But there's something about that meaty Baritone sound. A La Prochaine, yes, that is pic of me messing on an old fiddle, almost 20 years ago. But I haven't changed that much since then (lol). Danny

I've always found the Preterist position fascinating. In a roundabout way, it's a good way of getting one's feet wet in the field of "historical criticism", or if you will, attempting to interpret and understand biblical prophecies in view in their historical context. Admittedly, one may find (at least as I personally do) the Preterist position unsatisfactory in pursuit of the inevitable question "where are we now?" - but I've yet to review their ideas there more thoroughly. Danny

Does anyone have any experience owning or playing... Baritone Guitars? I've been looking at a few online the past week. It's a cross between a bass and a guitar, commonly tuned to a "B-B". I've been smitten with them since hearing a sound sample at Eastwood Guitars website. Now I'm contemplating between the Gretsch model G5265 (black with bigsby trem bar) and the lower priced OLP MM5, the latter which has gotten decent reviews at Harmony Central. I need to get to a guitar store. Danny

Can we safely assume that the notion of "tongues" held the same meaning for the writer of 1 Corinthians as was held by the writer of Acts? Might we have an example of xenoglossia in Acts, glossalalia in Corinthians? The various early Christian movements may have differed no less with one another in their ideas of "tongues" as we do today. A fascinating discussion guys. Thanks. Danny

He was fun and entertaining to watch, and it's sad to see him go but... recalling how over-the-top cocky he got at times with some of those crocks 'n snakes, I'm not all that terribly surprised.

Just a couple brief examples from the Thanksgiving Hymns, Hymn 3 (The Dead Sea Scrolls, p.173, Wise, Abegg, Cook): The Testament of Job ch.48-50 (estimated to have been written circ. first century, p.829, 833, Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, James A. Charlesworth, ed.): Danny

Angels were indeed regarded the intermediate source behind these "tongues". Danny