TheInvisibleDan

These "Tales of Woe and Legalism" are scary stories indeed! Just in time for Halloween. All the more glad I left in 1987.

Hi Belle, I'm leaning along these lines: One offered by Alaska Jewelry has an interesting, rough texture. While the one offered by African Gold has a certain, striking elegance to it. I think I may go with the second one. Greetings TempleLady: I hadn't considered a wooden anchor cross. But it would be a fantastic idea for building a large one to hang on a wall (perhaps in my refurbished garage-studio-Fortress-of-Solitude), especially with the addition of some brass or gold plating to cover the surface. Bramble : This appears quite true. While reviewing a Christian Symbols site, I came across a link to this article Sir Guess, Curiosity, Precision, and Kindness are very good guides. Danny

It is interesting that the earliest known variant for the spelling of "Christ" in circulation among the earliest Christians (reflected in ancient inscriptions and various manuscripts) was "Krestus", meaning the Kind One, the Benevolent One. Jesus was known primarily through "kindness", so much so that it became the very term attached to Him, prior to the "Christ" (messianic) stuff which took hold. Danny

I'm shopping for a cross. After all these 40-some-odd years, I never owned one. Though there was that plastic, green glow-in-the-dark cross which hung in one of the bedrooms at my parents' house. No, I'm just taking my time, trying to find just the right one. Or something close which appeals to my taste, that strikes the inner chord. For awhile I contemplated the Egyptian ankhs, their cross being the symbol of life. It's very cool looking, a striking symbol. But the cross I really want is a variant of the Anchor cross as depicted on the walls of the catacombs beneath Rome. The modern versions of this symbol as featured on Ebay I personally find atrocious. Their shape lacks the quiet dignity of the original symbol. It's interesting shopping for symbols of faith. The dove symbol never really did much for me. Danny

Here Socks, have a cup of joe....there ya go... I was really amused by the two Mormon missionaries which visited me about 3-4 years ago. One did the narration, while the other flipped an illustration book featuring Joseph Smith in a flannel shirt, resembling Russ Tamblyn from "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers". It was funny in a cool way. It was like watching a primitive attempt at multi-media "witnessing", though I might add, a bit more creative than many of my own attempts at such through the Way. That sort of "show 'n tell" witnessing can be taken a step further in the 21st century. One person can carry and open a laptop to show a mini-movie while the other can serve popcorn and lemonade. The movies can be of various dramatizations from the Book of Mormon featuring Jesus' appearance to the ancient indians 'n stuff. If it's a mini-series, more people might be inclined to invite missionaries over to their house on a weekly basis if only to catch the next installment. With the finale reserved for the Temple. It's a helluva witnessing program. By God, some religion should pick up on this (lol). Danny

Those "Osmond Brothers" sure had straight teeth. My older sister pinned up posters from "Sixteen" magazine back in the 70s. There, staring back at me if perchance I wandered into her room - - five sets of the biggest, whitest, straightest teeth one ever did see. I knew a Mormon in school who told me one day that Mormons didn't drink coffee! (is this true?) :blink: God forbid! COFFEE FORBIDDEN? Let it not be so...let it not...be so.... Danny

It seems a weird compulsion with ex-way groups: X-Leader-1: Hey man, too the bad the old group broke up. X-Leader_2: Any chance we'll be getting back together someday? X-Leader_3: No way man. X-Leader-7: Hey, I know! Let's start a new band! X-Leader_4: get outta here? What are we going to do without our old singer? X-Leader_2: Earle over there can carry a tune! X-Leader_3: And we still got the original drummer. X-Leader_4: Yeah but, we'll get sued if we sing the old songs!!! ( momentary silence) X-Leader_7: Hey! I know! We can write new songs that sound kind of like the old ones! X-Leader_2: Wow. Great idea. (Next month in the studio) X-Leader-4: Okay, "Wierwille Died for my Sins", take six... X-Leader-9 (the drummer): thump-thump-thump! X-Leader-2 playing milk carton-rubber-band thing: plunkity-plunk-plunk-plunk! X-Leader Xylophonist: klinkity-klinkity-klink! X-Leader Tambourine Player: shakity-shakity-shake! X-Leader guitarist: Whockity,Whockity- wha-wha- waka-waka. X-Leader Earle: "Out in Ohio, a man, -yeah! Word of God, yeah-yeah-yeah! (later, fans in the mosh pit at one of their concerts): Fan1: Wow! sounds just like the old stuff! Fan2: Feel that old magic! Fan3: whoo-hoo!

Satan and the OT deity's intercourse at the beginning of the Book of Job is pretty strange. God: Hey Satan, long time no see. what have u been up to? Satan: Eh, running all over the place 'n stuff... God: Hey! Check out Job over there. Isn't he one heck of a righteous fellow? Satan: Ha! Gimme a break - that gimp? I'll bet you over a couple shots of Soma that after a few days with me, he'll turn on you and bite you on the a$$!!! God: GAW-FAW!!! (slapping thunderous thighs, wiping out remote coastal villages in the Orient in the process) You're on! I got to pick up a copy of Jung's Letter to Job sometime soon.

If this particular case of eavesdropping still holds true, why didn't they simply inquire of this person directly? What's with this "sneaking-around" baloney? So the person teaches weird stuff that doesn't agree with their weird stuff. They should have just went out for a cup of coffee together someplace, and respectly discuss their weird stuff together. You know, act like Christians. Danny

Thank you. That looks like a very fascinating documentary. Danny

Howard's probably still fumbling with his walky-talky, wondering why none of his old friends respond from other side anymore. Rattling yesterday's lunch down his pant leg. Howard's brain is gone. It's gotta be....

I remember Howard honoring our twig with his presence at a hotel room in Boston. No, it wasn't that sort of thing. Our local twig was having a small meeting at a hotel room during some weekend-long Way function. "Special guest" Howard was coming to teach, as a favor to the twig leader "Paul", who bragged on earlier about acquiring from Howard the enlightenment of how to properly use a shovel. Howard taught something containing some financial nugget of course. Can't remember anything in particular now. Other than the fact that he appeared distracted the whole time. Kept fiddling with his walky-talky on his belt. Strangest thing I ever did see, yuh. Danny

"It has also become clear that Isaiah's metaphor of the fallen "Day Star" (Isa. 14.12-15) is to be located in the Ugaritic myth of the fallen astral deities, notably Athtar, who presumed to usurp the throne of Baal; the persistence of this theme is seen in the later development of traditions about Satan (Luke 10.18)." -p.786, entry on "Ugaritic", The Oxford Companion to the Bible. "The myth of fallen angels, prominent in later Jewish and Christian theology, does not appear in the Old Testament, though when it arose it could attach itself to Is. 14:12, a reflection of a Canaanite myth that may have actually been the prototype of the Jewish idea." ( p.121, An Outline of Biblical Theology, M. Burrows). "The third way in which the creation was thought of by the Hebrews and other peoples was the myth of the primeval conflict between God and the dragon of chaos. While known from Babylonian and Canaanite sources, this myth is only echoed in the Old Testament by occasional literary allusions. The Hebrew word for abyss, tehom, corresponds etymologically to the Babylonian name of the primeval monster, Tiamat, but in this case the original ideas has entirely disappeared. Not so with Rahab [Ps. 89:10; Is. 51:9] and Leviathan [Ps.74:14; Isa.27:1]. Apparently the attitude of the later Old Testament writers to this myth was like that of Christian poets to pagan mythology." (ibid, p.117).

Then the writer follows this up shortly afterward (2 Peter 2:1ff) with fearmongering against "false prophets" and anyone speaking "damnable heresies" (= other Christian movements which taught any ideas at odds with those of the writer and his church); much emphasis on judgement and destruction (vs. the emphasis of ideas by other Christian and gnostic movements). The letter appears to me more a reconfiguration, a recasting of Pauline themes - going out his way to add the statement about things in Paul's epistles "hard to be understood" (3:16), "things which the untaught and unestablished twist (= Marcionites, gnostics, other Christian movements)."as other scriptures, to their own destruction". 2nd Peter isn't categorized among "the Catholic epistles" for nought, a work seemingly contrived for touting the authority of one canon of scriptures against those of other competing movements at the time. Danny

You've raised some very valid points, WW, for reconsidering the angelic connection to the figure of the king of Tyre. However, what I also find interesting when rereading this section now, if supposing this figure is Lucifer or Satan, is how little this depiction actually seems to support the old "gap" chronology promoted by Wierwille, that Satan's fall had occurred somewhere between Gen.1:1 and 1:2, if indeed, Satan's glory, beauty and perfection was obvious "in EDEN, the GARDEN OF GOD". Danny

The "Johnny-come-lateliness" nature of these Petrine "epistles" may provide one great reason for comfort. It's okay apocrypha.

If I may "let loose" on this verse... "no prophecy of scripture is of one's private interpretation" = "leave it to the church to do the interpreting for you... idiots!"

"So ya- Tell meeeeee over 'n over 'n over and over a-gain, my friend - ya don't be-lieve me - we're on the Eve of - DESTRUCTION!" Love that old, happy sounding apocalyptic music.

It is certainly by the grace of God that "the end" of the world has not occurred by now. With all the nuclear arms in existence, we have the capacity to still wipe each other out and effectively end the world as we know it. I'm truly amazed it hasn't happened by now.

Who's denying the "plausibility" that "good" can become "evil", Allan? Or for that matter, "evil" might repent and become "good"? And which transformative process do you profess to demonstrate here? Danny

Foolish mortals! I'm only carrying out what Jehovah tells me to do. - The Marcionite Devil Actually, this conversation has struck my curiosity concerning references to the Devil in Apocryphal literature. How far back does this "mutiny" tale of the devil's fall actually go? To what degree might this tale had been allegorically contrived, and reflected back into what is read, as opposed to certain passages (particularly in the Old) being transcribed and taken literally? For example, in the proverb directed against the King of Babylon in Isaiah 14:12, "Lucifer" may also be simply translated, "howl", "Howl, son of the dawn!" (Concordant Version of the Old Testament). So A.E. Knoch's translation. But if referring to "O day-star" ( The Jewish Scriptures, Jewish Publication Society) still doesn't change the fact that the text is initially directed against a certain powerful, prideful human king, the ruler of Babylon. Did the Jews take these passages to mean "the Devil", or is this a later development of thought being allegorically fed back into the text? Abigail's insight might be most appreciated here. Danny

Baptism for the dead. Should I drop dead in the next 50 years, I personally would have no objection to having a Mormon, Catholic, Jew, Buddhist, Muslim, Zoroastrian, Pagan , Athiest, Republican, Liberal, or any number of countless religions 'n cults 'n philosophies praying for my soul. Actually I find the thought very touching, of a complete stranger making a spiritual gesture on behalf of my soul for its eternal well-being. Who knows, someone out of that plethora just might hit the secret passcode to activate the gates of heaven, allowing my lost soul entrance. This will be very helpful should I turn out incorrect in my present conclusions. TIA. :) Danny

Congratulations! Once you complete that class, you can move onto the advanced DWTOASWM* ( *Dried White Toast on a Stick with Margarine) course, which is slightly tastier. :)