Thin Lizzy

It's boring. What can I say? I've been going on and off to different fellowships around the country for over a year now. I've visited friends and their fellowships. I am startled by how hungry the people who GO to TWI fellowships are....hungry and dead....like zombies sitting at a table and starving. In fact, I think a Zombie with vocal ability could add more movement and interest to teaching a Sunday teaching service. Seriously...it just feels like the religious devil spirits that gutted The Way Ministry left it used and throttled, like someone after a stroke. If the Word is Quick and Powerful...where is that in the STS? There is no "juice". If TWI were a car battery, it would need a serious jumpstart. The rhetoric is the same, the vocal intonations of a STS are enough to put you to sleep and the "word" is bland and unsatisfactory. I went back to TWI because I didn't like the boring structure of a regular church and I thought I could change TWI from the inside. (Silly old bear) Change it by being a part of it. A rebirth through love. But at every turn, in quiet conversations, people confess how they've "stood" through betrayal after betrayal, all without justice or a request for their forgiveness. Perhaps some people are tied to TWI because they were taught (as I was) that if I left TWI, I would "circle the drain" spiritually. Weren't so many of us conditioned to believe that we would be stripped of God's mercy, favor, glory and abundance if we abandoned TWI? But it's not true!!! That is a LIE. God is BIGGER than one organization. He is bigger than the little box TWI wants to put Him into. And if you are hungering and thirsting, YOU...SHALL....BE FILLED. It's not like God is saying...oh well, Theresa or Sara or Jim....if you are not apart of TWI then you won't be blessed because that is the only organization holy enough for me to dwell in...Right?!?! God KNOWS your need, and how to meet it. He doesn't need just one organization and neither do you. Plus if you take a good look at what is coming out of HQ, you will see that what is taught engenders so little deliverance that TWI is just like almost any other church anyway.......except without the entertainment. Primarily because there is no love. No Love. Pharisees....they had the "truth" too. But no love.

Hey is anybody out there from the 22nd or 23rd Way Corps? I'm looking for Mark Smith. He was in one of those corps years. Not sure if he graduated though.

I'm looking for Mark Smith. He was in the 22nd or 23rd Corps I think. Anybody got any ideas where he might be or if he's on Facebook? I looked but there are a whole lot of SMITHS on FB - LOL.

I have heard W.D. cannot be fresh out of high school. TWI prefers candidates with more life experience, Adv. class grads, out of debt and bringing around $1200+ on the field to get set up. (Cost of living) Recent college grads are good b/c they have some discipline already from studying and passing exams and sometimes are more socially adept due to college life....maybe more than most 40 year olds who have already settled into their careers. WD certainly teaches people to get pass the NO's in life and not take people personal. There are still people out there who are praying to have a personal relationship with God. It's good that somebody is out there making it happen. Prayerfully these WD will be much better for it. Although it is a much much more strict program than WOW - good thing it's only 6 months!

Just bringing it back to the top. I was looking at a picture the other day of a whole gang of us 22 corps outside the dorms in gunnison. The sun was in half our faces and the shade was in the other half. I think it must have been the entire 22 corps. It was a seriously crappy picture and I can't remember who took it but I bought my copy for like 50 cents or something and back then, I thought the pic was so bad - what a waste of part of my $30 allowance and I'd better go write it down so I don't forget - ha,ha but I found that picture recently and I held it for probably 10 minutes just remember names and experiences and all the great times I had with some of these people. Some of it was so fun - snowmobililing, snowball fights, snowskiing (seeing a theme?) and some of it wasn't so much fun, does anyone remember the 5 mile hike in the snow up one of the mountain with Mike Anderson and Sue....can't remember her name or the early morning runs up to the water tower and up to the top of the commons - those stairs....yikes! It made me strong though. Anyway, so I'm holding this picture and I'm thinking how some of the time I was in the corps was probably the best time in my life and then I put the picture away remembering that some of the time.....was also (still to this day) the worst times in my life. Does anyone remember that picture? Who's the big guy - on the heavy side but really tall too - just a real big guy, anyone know? He was really cool.

Hey Kristin - Hey Chris! You both rocked! I had mucho fun with y'all in the big TWI days. Kristin remember Mark - he was a total crack up - still smoking In-Rez - who sez you can't tame the wild man - well, I guess they did! Or not....anyway, Jenne Brown can be tracked down on MySpace but she doesn't respond - maybe too steamed up about the old days still. I can understand - live and let die - as my Beatles friends would say. Two years and I'm still waiting for her to post here. Alas.................

Sorry to interrupt. Please forgive me. I had heard that Jenne Brown (former W.C./WOW) lived or lives in Ohio. Can anyone possibly confirm this or know of her at all? Thank you very much.

Scooby-dooby-doo, where are you? Does anyone know where Jenne Brown is now?

Are we Escapees or flunkies? Hmm.....I think I was a flunkie but would qualify by all as an escapee. Glad I went. Learned a lot. Woke up one day and started breathing the fresh air of reality and the insanity of robotism didn't fit anymore. Then someone noticed that I looked at them with raised eyebrows. And Bamm, I'm a homo and an outcast. Gee, I was an outcast BEFORE I got here but a homo....not on your butt.....ha,ha. However, I must admit that sometimes the hardest times of your life are when you learn the most. I will never forget the people I knew and the friends I made. It is too bad that I also cannot forget the pain that so many went through because someone was looking for someone new to crucify. Didn't JC already handle that for us? By grace we are saved - oh yeah and by works, righty-o, sir takesalot. Sometimes it just really felt like that line Clark Griswald (Chevy Chase) gets from his boss in the Christmas Vacation movie. Clark Griswald: My family got you a gift - just a little something to show we were thinking of you. CG's Boss: "Put it over there with the others, Greaseball." Just another person in a long line of nobody's good enough to be here. Nevertheless, All of you stood out to me. Many of you are closer in my heart than most everyone I met since then. Life moves, flows and Rocks! XOXOXOXOXOXOXO The Band: Thin Lizzy The Song: Dear Lord The Album: Bad Reputation -----All the sevens don't add up when you need------

Jenne, Are you out there? Wondering where you are..................... You and Heather - what a funny bunch!! Okay, so I still miss you and hope you are okay!! Anybody got any new news?

Belle, Healing is a tough road but sometimes if I stop picking a scab long enough, it will heal over. Me thinketh the lady doth protest too much. Socks, All the people you helped and healed - their lives are better because of you. That's Park Place, Baby.

Themex, You HIT it! We all have something to teach and something to learn. When I was in the corps, they taught that you could learn something from vaccumming and therefore, I had that expectation - to learn - from a simple task such as that. Did I learn? Sure, because I expected to learn. Sometimes people get so high up and so full of themselves that they forget that they can learn from the people they are teaching. Like raising a child. I learn from my boy, he teaches me all kinds of things even though he doesn't speak a whole lot yet. He teaches me tenderness, patience, kindness and the big understanding that people don't learn and grow overnight. They learn very slowly. Sometimes people in leadership are more forgetful, than forgiving. The expectation that a 9 month old can drive a car, stay out of trouble and leap tall buildings in a single bound is unrealistic. Just like pushing people from the Foundational Class to the Advanced Class or even pushing them INTO the foundational class - sure there is a lot of good learning in it but just because carrots have a bunch of vitamins, that doesn't mean I'm going to stuff them down a 3 month old's mouth. Everyone is on a different track with God and I just loved your post because if we could always be more understanding, then we would be less violating on other people's lives. Very few people have power that I haven't given them. I once had a boss who told me that if I didn't do this certain thing (which was highly unethical but not illegal) that I would get in trouble and probably even fired, I told that person that although I understood their reasoning for asking me to do it, I believed it to be wrong and not in the best interest of the company. I told that person that my life and reputation would outlive the time I spent working for that company and for that reason, I told them that I would rather quit the job than do what they were asking - if they truly decided to ask me to do it. He thought about it and said he was just suggesting it and not asking me to do it SO he didn't ask and I didn't quit. I've been told to handle my people a certain way and refused because I wouldn't take the blame for a decision that was not right and was not mine. I left the WC because of a bad decision that everyone was jumping on board with because the MOG sat excathedra and vocalized it from God. It was wrong. I knew it was wrong. Even VeePee would've told old LCM to take a long walk off a short pier but the decision was made and everybody who didn't want to quit or get fired kept their mouths shut. Not me, I had the same thinking then that I do now. I'm not going to stand accountable for someone else's half brained idea that binds the lovers of God and belittles them. No f#!ng way. So yes, The Way seems to forever be struggling because sometimes leadership people deem sane human logic to be old man nature and put it on a back burner. I am IN TWI to make it stronger and better. I cannot change the group but I can effect the people I am around in a positive and beneficial way. There are many, many good and wonderful people still in. I think many of us are all working toward changing the legacy of the way toward something more positive. Thin Lizzy

Many (most) of the Way Corps were good, well-meaning people. Fanatics, yes. Thank God, it took that to move the ministry. People who are either totally committed or should be. But as they say, one bad apple spoils the bunch and that's what started the stain - one bad apple rotting what it touched, slowly, slowly, slowly. Like Elderly people - Old people (who have little wrong with them) don't die overnight; they lose their will to live first. That's how the Good Way Corps became the Baaaaadddd Way Corps, they lost their will to love because the legalism was stealing it from them. Many of my Way Corps were so great, they'd need a building on every street corner to commemorate their love and sacrifice. Sad to say, most of them walked away with hurt and disappointment and their name wiped off everything that spoke of their achievement. Its a good thing God REMEMBERS, huh? Anyway, this thread is HYSTERICAL and it's this heart in ministry that I remember, which is why it was so vibrant for so long - the love of God calling. Alas, the ministry is on the slow road to recovery now and so many people, pressed down, beaten together and bruising over will never return but we still have Paris (or was that Rome - ha,ha). Perhaps, in time, TWI will be able to acquire more people with the heart and depth that so many of you had and when those people come and bring their abilities and talents so willingly to the ministry to lay them down at the altar of God's will, they will be cherished rather than vanquished. The ministry cannot die because you gave your life's blood for it and that has great worth. But hey, it's good that you got out before the old regime drained your last pint.

Was the topic of discussion about Miracles before it left off? People going back or not going back and why - yes or no on the miracles? Yes, I read the posts. When I started with the TWI in the late 80's I witnessed miracle after miracle; in the true defining sense of a miracle -yes. My TC was so hot on all 9, all the time; it only seemed logical that miracles were to be expected and yes, they happened. I saw healing after healing. I saw amazing things that would shock me and amaze me. The more committed I got, the more talk I heard, the less miracles I saw. People wanted to talk but didn't want to act or they wanted to act inside the perimeter or what they believed to be "The Highway of God's Power". True believing dwindled as legalism took powerful control in many areas of TWI not because I or my Corps brothers and sisters wanted to ditch God but the box became narrow and acting from "inspiration" suddenly became fear of instigation. So what now? LCM is out, things are moving, people are growing and yes, people are coming back. Not just me but many others. People who stayed on the ship out in the ocean during the rough weather and now are heading into shore over calm seas. Maybe not completely calm, but calmer. As one person posted to me on a previous thread - (basically it seemed to me they said) that it's hard to forgive a ministry or even a person when it seems like no one is asking for your forgiveness. This remains to be true in many ways. The offenders though past or present see God's cleansing power as enough and maybe you (and I do mean YOU) got wooded out because their was something wrong with you anyway. Not too many say they are sorry or ask for forgiveness, however, if a person wanted to come back and was willing to forgive the past wrongs - it does take time, no doubt-no doubt! - they would find that miracles are happening with TWI again. I can again say that I've seen amazing things. God is ALIVE and is good always. I won't say that wrongs weren't done and perpetrators were violaters but that's NOT ME and that's not MY ministry. So I say -if you can't find the Living Word in a church or signs, miracles and wonders, maybe it's time you checked out TWI again because those boys are back in town. Thin Lizzy Thank God I can read the Bible; Can I get another cup of Java while I'm sitting here? Thanks and heads up, hearts out - ready for another day of believing God's Word.

Dear I Love Bagpipes, The top reason I left the WC was because I looked around at all the single people who (sometimes desperately) wanted to be married and I felt my own internal desperation. I knew I needed to be married. As a youth, I always looked with great admiration at the love and respect between my parents and wanted the same thing for myself but as the years passed, I become more involved with TWI at the exclusion of my personal dream to be married. I had heard that a person could "renew their mind" to marry anybody but my renewed mind lacked the conviction to marry without sexual chemistry or at least, attraction or some sort. I had no intention to marry just to "move the word" that to me was like screwing for pregancy. You get the result but lose the greatness of the process. So I left during my last year of the WC and foundered for many, many months; lost, lonely, cast out and cast aside. Then I found my spouse. Our first meeting was like God shining a light down on the person and the smells in the air and beauty of the person wrapped my senses in a knot around them. That person was, is and has been for these last 10 years my forever friend. God gave me the desire of my heart. I know you know that you did the right thing to step back. I congratulate you on it with hearty approbation". Now cushion this with the fact that I'm an "innie" and have been for several years again. But I had to step back to gain perspective. Now I'm not saying you should come back or anything like that; people have their own experiences and their own processes and those burned worse than others will never be firefighters again. However, I congratulate you for your bold and courageous step back. It's painful but the more you massage the bruises where the chains wrapped your legs together, the better it will feel and faster you will heal. TWI is not God and now I recognize that I have my walk with God as an individual. I love the good things about the ministry, just like I love the good things about my spouse but my perspective is different and it is a very good thing you are gaining that. Getting too involved in TWI is like Alice in Wonderland; falling down a rabbit hole. I bring people to the ministry for the same reason as I left it; to gain perspective. God's Word is profitable in all situations but sometimes the practical application of it needs to be modified through perspective. I love my Way friends but my "real" friends are the ones who love me for me; not just when I'm showing up or speaking the "right" things. What is real but friends and family? When the TWI threw me out, they caught me, even though I had cast THEM aside to follow TWI. As one of my wonderful friends said to me once; never burn a bridge that you might have to cross back over again. GOOD ON YOU, MATEY.

Thanks for welcoming me to the Café and apparently, my entry was somewhat misunderstood. I UNDERSTAND that it was GOD who saved my life but HE chose The Way Ministry. Now I don’t know why – I suppose some of you can reason that the same devil spirits who communicated with me during séances communicated through leadership to teach me the Bible and get me to pray so they could reach in my back pocket and grab my wallet but I challenge your angry doctrine of callousness on that level. I believe in my heart that God lead me into the Way ministry and then God lead me out. I didn’t get “kicked out” for the reasons anyone said but I did get kicked out because I didn’t believe in the rhetoric of the Way Ministry anymore. I SAW loving leaders turn into angry, vicious people. Maybe you say they were always that way and I only saw it as I got deeper into it but nay, I knew them before they took the LCM Hyde potion. People DID change in front of my eyes. So I left, was asked to leave but my heart had left months earlier and I was just hanging on because I didn’t have a Plan B. I was around for some of the hurt. I did get pushed aside, humiliated and even had my ABS returned several times. If they only wanted money, how come they didn’t just keep it? No, it was more of an insult to keep sending it back and that was fine because I felt like I was doing what I was taught and if they didn’t want to use my greenbacks to further the ministry work; then they let me off the hook for sending it. So I quit sending it after a while (since I was still out the 29 cents and getting more insulted every time they returned it). I came back a couple times in the late 90’s, early 00’s only to find the water was still freezing or boiling and then stuck my foot in a few years ago and found the temperature more in my climate zone. Maybe the water is deeper than I think and maybe there are alligators waiting just off shore and maybe, just maybe I sense that which is why I won’t get committed by attending the A.C. but for now, the fellowship in my town, in my state is very sweet and my TWIG leadership are just the best. So I’m wading in slowly and thank you for your words of warning. If the shark bites me off at the kneecaps, then at least, I was forewarned. I just wanted to write and say that TWI is NOT going to die, as much as some of you wish it would or has or will. I love the people in my fellowship; they are rockin’ fun and crazy like some of you. Thanks for the replies. I appreciate the “WARNING! Dangerous Curves Ahead!” signs from you but I'm going slow. I think it's a good road still, just got some rocks in it. Thanks again. Lizzy Over and Out

Not out. Serving in leadership capacity in Ohio. I think he's spiritual border patrol - in a good way.

As M&A, yes, you have to sit down with the leadership and review the reasons as to why you were labeled M&A. If the current leadership make the assessment that you would be more valuable than volatile then you are allowed to return. Perhaps my belief is Way Fantasy but I won't get too close to the top so no one pushes me down the side of the mountain either.

Yes, I am fighting to save the ministry because it saved my life. It's fine for everybody who wants to walk away and call it over but I can't do it because I remember the agony of the spirit realm. I was tortured by the spirits in my mind and then suddenly, I was 18 and made a bet with God. For years, I had went to many churches, looked up other organizations, talked to many, many folks about The Bible and I could find no power. I was in seances and there was power. I operated devil spirits and black magic and there was power. I did drugs and dealt drugs and there was power but my heart longed to know God, to be good. I knew there was spiritual power available on "the dark side" but nothing seemed to evident on the side of God. Fed up, I told God that if He didn't show me His Will and His Word, I was going to kill myself because I was DONE with this world. Then I got witnessed to and once they kicked out the devil spirits and I could read again (lost the ability to understand or read english during the witnessing encounter, which was a big deal since it was/is my primary language), I got born again. I spoke in tongues 3 months later. I had lived with pain for a couple years (from a severe injury) and I took PFAL and got miraculous healing from it during the class. I have seen the lame walk. I have been at death's door. I have been physically mamed by spirits. I know what the world has to offer without the Word of God and I know there are others who are in the same situation. This ministry saved my life. There are others who need it. I want it to live for those people too. Okay, so maybe it almost ruined my life too but I found the balance and the desire of my heart in my spouse. God IS good always. I just remember that. God is good ALWAYS. Thanks for the yummy turkey cookies! Super duper gobbling good! I'll have another round of coffee, if you please. Oh before I go - Thanks for all the welcoming by the way! I really appreciate it. I’m not retarded to what the ministry was, became, and now is. I also was Marked & Avoided when I left the W.C. in the 90's. Boy, was that pretty horrible! I took the AC 4X and each time it was exhilarating and exhausting. Of course, that was at the Indiana Campus where people stayed on campus the whole class and didn't have to shuffle between the Motels/Hotels which must be pretty awful. I talked to a friend who recently attended (last year) and the schedule was very hectic. Getting committed even one step at a time takes a LOT of time and a LOT of money but I've always believed that people make the time and find the money for what interests them so I guess I always justified to myself that that's what it was for me. I came back after nearly a decade of absence just a few years ago and found some of the changes disturbing. The Ministry was a LOT like New Orleans after the hurricane, leveled and hurting. Now many Way people would say that spiritually New Orleans brought it on themselves, just like Sodom & Gomorrah and if that is the case, then it could be reasoned that The Way Ministry had the same thing happen to them and were (in that same sense)spiritually deserving of it. Although we are not supposed to be joyful when bad things happen, at what point can we justify the relief and the true THANK GOD! feeling that we had when the spiritual hurricane leveled The Way ministry. I feel they had it coming and I hope the people who hurt me spent just as much time in tears and in frustration as I did. Now that it’s mostly done and justice has been served, I can move on. I can forgive the emotional rapists because justice was served. Now don't get me wrong, I am NOT against the ministry, nor do I want it to fall or fail. However, the cancer of pride, anger and lust for money and power corrupted many people and that was the welcome wagon to the d.s. realm to rack & ruin the ministry and what I mean by rack & ruin is not just the ministry in it's corporate HQ in Ohio but in it's members in particular. The people like me (and most of you) who were victims of the abuse. It’s terrible, just terrible what has happened but can a phoenix rise from the ashes? I believe it can. I think it is changing because it HAS TO change. When the government can come in and tell you that you’re breaking the LAW, at what point do the leaders figure out that there is more corruption than what meets the eye. Leadership is changing and many have changed. The current Way Corps is different. They are being trained differently. The thought police have been fired and in their absence, the WC is being trained to question and think for themselves. They are not ½ human, ½ WAYFER cyborg but rather all-heart, all-go people, like I remember them being. People with heart AND confidence – what a combination. Have we really come full circle back to “GOD WORKS IN YOU”, instead of “God is working in you only if I (being a leader) recognize God working in you and can fully agree that yes, it is God working in you and it’s not some spiritual mix-up”. When LCM said in 1992 that he didn’t get involved in people’s personal lives or their finances because people have to make the Word their own and they answer to God in their heart of hearts, he was right. If they had stayed on that track, all would have been well but alas, the deception was already weaving and the illusion clarifying and we all know what happened after that. Nevertheless, the end of my Saga is that I believe God works in us as we believe HIS Word and as we renew our minds and put off the old man nature. I am IN the ministry because I can hear the voice of God when I draw closer to Him and to His Word and the ministry helps me with that. I give and I take; they give and they take and as long as it stays within the boundaries of what I find acceptable, I will stay but experience has taught me to be warned and to be wary. Sincerity is no guarantee for truth. Keep your stick on the ice! Happy Thanksgiving!

WOW Belle! You nailed it!!! When I left the W.C., I was a jerk. My family who always loved me and mostly supported me (even financially in the W.C.) thought I was more like Jim Jones than Jesus Christ when I left The Way and went back to family. It took a long time to gnaw the shackles off my heart and ankle. I remember waking up one morning and thinking - What do I do today? No one is telling me to do anything so what do I do? Who am I anymore? I saw myself through the narrow behavior modification of what was acceptable in The Way. I remember being yelled at that "nice" was not a fruit of the spirit so I thought hm...maybe I'm weak to be nice so I tried to be umm...not nice. Which for me meant not smiling, not really friendly and when it was all said and done, not very happy. I was only allowed to be "me" within the confines of what someone else said I was acceptable as - not the Christ in Me with all the attributes of WHO I AM. Coming back to my true self meant easing up on being such a jerk to myself. It meant being friendly and even sometimes being lazy (lions and tigers and bears - ohmy!). I think I found the balance. Now I can get the heat but not be burned by the fire. Close but not too close. My marriage benefits from it and I am walking with God. Truly walking with God, not fumbling around for him in a haze of "What's right?" or "what's right, right now?" Thanks for your answer. I'm still healing but I look in the mirror and I can see me AND the God in Christ in ME. The danishes are sticky but super yummy! Thanks for the napkin!

Ummm....maybe I was not clear. Many, many of current way believers ARE very sorry for all the S%@$t that happened. Sorry that they were hurt, sorry that they hurt others. Yes, they are restructuring some of what was taught because bad practice became bad doctrine and how can anyone say "Do what I say not what I do" when we SEE the sermon. Yes, there is remorse. People who stood up (me) - got slapped down. People who questioned - got kicked. I didn't stay in and now I can say that I didn't stay out either but what I can say is that I believe and can SEE that people are trying to change the ministry - in doctrine and in practice. Some people have been so badly burned, they will never come back and that chapter in their life is closed. So be it. Sell the books on Ebay and call it over. BUT it's not over for many, many people and The Way will come back and stronger because the heart of what I believe The Way was meant to be (is not me controlling you or you controlling some poor slob who wandered off the street and would rather come to Twig than be alone every night -) it's about The Love of God in the Renewed Mind in Manifestation. I believe in God and I believe that Satan exists and it appears that for a period of time, they were both changing work shifts at The Way but I can tell you first hand that not everybody had him (the latter) as a boss, only some and most of those have been ousted. So it's turning around. Slowly but it is turning. I only hope that the people I hurt when I was in can find it in their hearts to forgive me. I don't think I hurt many (I'd like to think) but I can remember a few and it crushes my heart when I think of some of the things I did and said because I thought it was right or because it's all I knew or because I was afraid. I wish I could tell them FACE TO FACE that I am sorry, that I was wrong but I don't even know where they are or if they'd even care. I believe the Way Ministry is changing because I am The Way Ministry and I have changed. Off with the old and on with the New. God is I AM THAT I AM. and that's enough for me. I don't think I knew you or your wife but I am sorry for your loss. Thanks for the topic reply. It was VERY interesting and informative.

Does anybody know where she is now? I knew her. She was very cool. The Female of the Species is more deadly than the male. Do you remember that poem Jenne? What a GAS!!!

Neal, YOU ROCK!! I knew you at HQ and you were VERY, VERY cool. You wouldn't remember me but you helped me several times. When you love God, it rubs off! Thanks!