Twinky

Not since I discovered the truth about TWI!

Allan, I thought this might be you as an Ozzie having a prod at the Kiwis. But then I see it's somebody in BoP - what can you expect!! Maybe the wacky baccy helped his driving skills.

Okay, Polar Bear, this is a place to catch up with people. Please tell what you know.

Did you hear about the blind guy arrested for driving? He was accompanied by a sighted driver who told him what moves to make. This is travelling at around 30 mph. The sighted driver was already been disqualified for other driving offenses. Police followed them for about half an hour before stopping the vehicle. It was only then that they discovered the driver was blind. ...obviously the standard wasn't really so bad; what does that asy about other drivers???

Pink Lady, when God says he will never leave you or forsake you, he means: HE WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU NOR FORSAKE YOU. or alternatively HE WILL NEVER EVER LEAVE YOU NOR EVER FORSAKE YOU. EVER. And no matter what any group, cult, organization or individual tells you, they don't have the right to tell you otherwise. Can I say it again? GOD WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU NOR FORSAKE YOU. Make a bold stand. And there is a lot of support to be had here at the GSC.

Right on, Dot!

Can everyone who got ousted (for much less heinous offences) also request re-housing by TWI? Anyway, why do they have a property in Gunnison not on campus, when they have been busy selling off bits of the Kipp farm at HQ? Wouldn't it make more sense to sell off stuff not at HQ? Oh sorry, that removes the bolt-hole. (Ducking for cover)

WOT? WOT?? Are you REALLY saying - he was kicked out from HQ and rewarded for his behavior by installing him in a TWI household??? (gobsmacked)

Pink Lady, so sorry to hear about what has happened to you. "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" (which Belle recommends) is very helpful and healing. Also read in the editorial section of GSC for a similar but much shorter treatise. Another book that has given me great (rueful) giggles lately is a version of the Bible called "The Message" which a friend of mine has lent me. It's in "plain English" so an easy read (not a serious "study" Bible) but there are times that I sit and read it and it's just like a peek into TWI and a warning to us about what was going on there. Really, I kid not - I mean, you wouldn't exactly think of Romans as a comedy show, would you?? Might help you, but maybe you need eyes to see before you understand and the kids might not read it anyway as it's not good old-fashioned KJV. Stick around, Pink Lady, you'll get a lot of healing and support here.

That's "Southampton", Bliss (all one word). What a thrill for the UK.

This is just a bit scary - we are supposed to love God with all our heart, mind and strength. In other words, we surrender to God. All very right and proper. That surrender was abused. We are also supposed to consider the "old man" [or woman] dead (as in trespasses and sins). The image given to us was of lugging a corpse around tied to our backs. Well, you can't rape a dead body. That's something else. Necrophilia, anyone (yeuk) :unsure: [why isn't there a "sticking out the tongue Smiley?] But then we are talking about emotional rape...

Actually it also puts me in mind of that Austrian girl Natascha who recently escaped from her captor of 8 years. She was just a little kid when she was captured by a much older male; kept in a dungeon in poor conditions; threatened and never knew what mood she would find him in - whether he would be nice to her or beat her. She also had to share his bed. Occasionally he treated her with kindness and gave her things (like a radio) to help her personal growth. She was emotionally and physically raped and yet at heart she retained a little core of herself which enabled her to escape. Nobody could say that Natascha consented to the conditions. TWI has kept some of us in poor conditions, never knowing whether they would be nice or not to us; and giving us just enough that we could feel we had some personal growth. (Heck, there were enough meetings to go to). (And a few had to share the bed of the head honcho(s)). And we retained a core of ourselves that we can use to emotionally extricate ourselves. I do not mean to belittle her horrible experiences in any way. God help her (and the psychiatrists) in sorting her thinking patterns out now. :(

Glad I'm not the only one to thnk this. The same expression "emotional rape" had occurred to me some time ago. It can also be rape, legally, if "consent" was obtained by threats or duress. We all know about duress. This may be an expression that speaks more to the female visitors to the Cafe. What do male visitors think? Bowtwi: If you feel inclined to do such a thing again, perhaps get details of the loan account that needs to be paid (and check the details!) and pay the lender direct - don't give it to your brother to pay in, he's already shown himself untrustworthy. But God bless your heart in giving. You did the right thing, even if he didn't.

Not to mention those who hang out in the Grease Spot Cafe, which is a very special sort of splinter group. One with a sharp point.

Pimp: And your point is ??

Nice 5 pointed stars on the cover. Quoted in £ sterling? Living in Hawai'i? 2 copies of the handwritten journal for sale (used carbon paper, perhaps) Like the cure for cancer - HEY what if VP appeared to the author and told her all about it? (tongue in cheek)

Actually, no that never happened. I have had people say, "I'm not a Christian, I'm a Catholic!"Just scary that most of the churches teach the trinity, a concept I always found difficult and inconsistent. Neither do I. Just regard it with a less than gullible eye. I accept nothing and re-think everything.I went to a Christian festival recently over a long weekend. It was very pleasant. There were many thousands of people there. They were from every conceivable Christian type of organisation you could imagine, churches, charities, workers overseas, with ideas on all sorts of things. Just goes to show what a great bunch of people there are out there...whatever route they took to be God's kids.

Some of the things that’s wrong with church (ie, established lot): When Rowan Williams was installed as Archbishop of Canterbury (= Primate of the Anglican Church) he made a big deal of inclusiveness. He didn’t speak out against certain things, in particular homosexuality; now the Anglican church is pretty much split in the middle, with the US ordaining well-known active homos (Geoffrey John, is his name?) At the end of August, Dr Williams finally (after all those years in the “head office”) has finally “distanced himself from his one-time liberal support of gay relationships and stressed that the tradition and teaching of the Church has in no way been altered by the Anglican Communions consecration of its first openly homosexual bishop. Only now is he “backing a resolution which says that homosexual practice is incompatible with the Bible.” (Article: “The Sunday Telegraph” (a well-respected UK newspaper) 27 August 2006). This is that same man who, at around the time of his inauguration as Archbishop of Canterbury was also appointed (?) as a druid in some Welsh assembly (he’s a Welshman). This same Anglican church – get this! – has recently renewed the licence to continue to officiate of a priest who has converted to Hinduism. “My philosophical position is thatall religions are cultural constructs. … God is the same irrespective of whether you pray to him in a temple, church or mosque,” he is reported as having said. He keeps a statue of Ganesh (the Hindu elephant god) in front of his house and prays to it. (The Bishop who renewed his licence said he didn’t know of this priest’s “conversion.”) (“The Times” (a well-respected UK daily newspaper), 8 September 2006). The Presbyterian church is also grappling with homosexuality – is it allowable or not? Methodists have been debating about whether to throw in their lot with the Anglicans. The RC church does not allow its priests to marry – yet the Bible explicitly warns that there will come those who “forbid to marry” (in the context of being against God’s plan for life); and explicitly says that [ministers] in the church should be “the husband of one wife” and should rule their households well. Not to mention the other things that the RC church does that’s off the word – “Mariolatry” for one. The Vatican is openly trying to woo the Anglican church back into its fold. Not to mention the “vain repetition” of pretty much all mainstream churches, where it seems the ritual, dressing up, the order of service manual for certain days, and the “prayer or collect for the day” have greater precedence than the actual needs of the congregation. For those of you who do attend mainstream churches, many of you do understand the differences in practice and what the Bible says, and can sift out (some of) the error. It’s great you can enjoy fellowship there and no doubt there are some really good-hearted people. It just must be very hard for newbies into those churches to sort out what God really has to say about things. If you are able to put in your pennyworth from time to time, you may be achieving something special. After all, they are still our brothers and sisters in Christ. But heck: who are we on GSC to talk? Didn’t TWI teach us some good stuff as well as a heap of error of its own kind? At least TWI got us reading the book, and when we take off the PFAL-colored glasses, we can read it clearly enough.

Belle, Glad to see this topic high on the list. Still think there should be a document (Belle has something useful) set in the Editorial section so it's RIGHT IN THE FACE of newbies and innies.

Yes, definitely, if you follow any kind of (dare we say?) cult. That's what makes a cult. Did you see the thread on works of the flesh - one of which specifically states "cults" !! (Sorry, I added a bit there - damn me through eternity) But should Christ be divided? Not by those walking in love...

I've been applying for a new job(s) lately, and the agency (as agencies do) sent me a suggested list of "difficult questions to prepare answers to" - you know the sort of thing, "What difficult situation have you had to deal with and what did you learn from it? (blah, blah)" And I got to reflecting on my time with and post-TWI and how life is now. Not laboring under the extreme stress of guilt and condemnation, daily living now has an undercurrent of joy bubbling all through it; I've very much more patience; am kinder; am very peaceful in heart; etc (all of these observable and commented upon by colleagues and friends) - the list reminded me so much of the "fruit of the spirit" from Gal 5:22. :) Which got me thinking: what, then, of the "works of the flesh"? :( (Note, I rarely read KJV any more and am exploring just about any other version I can find. The added insight can be quite startling). The Comparative Study (parallel) Bible offers the following for Gal 5:19-21 (reading across the versions) and I checked in a few other versions as well (NW is New World Translation put out by the JWs). RV doesn't add anything. "The works of the flesh are manifest, which are these: • Adultery (KJV); sexual immorality (NIV) • Fornication (KJV); impurity (other versions) • Sensuality (NAS); loose conduct (NW) • Idolatry (all versions) • Witchcraft (KJV, NAS); Sorcery (Amp, NIV); practice of spiritism (NW) ["genuine spiritual suspicion", perhaps?] • Hatred (KJV); Enmities (NAS) • Strife (Amp, NAS) • Jealousy (Amp, NAS, NIV) • Outbursts of anger (NAS); fits of rage (NIV) • Selfish ambition (NIV) • Divisions (Amp) • Sects with peculiar opinions (Amp) (love this one!) • Envying • Murders (only in KJV, not in other versions) [anybody got an interlinear?] • Drunkenness • Orgies (NIV) And the like." Hmmm. Does this remind you of anybody? Anything? Wednesday evenings? For those into more modern English yet, try this from The Message (“crafted to present the tone, rhythm, events and ideas of the Bible in everyday language”): "“Repetitive, loveless, cheap sex; “A stinking accumulation of mental and emotional garbage; “Frenzied and joyless grabs for happiness; “Trinket gods; “Magic-show religion; “Paranoid loneliness [or perhaps, isolation?]; “Cut-throat competition; “All-consuming yet never-satisfied wants; “A brutal temper; “An impotence to love or be loved; “Divided homes and divided lives; “Small-minded and lopsided pursuits; “The vicious habit of depersonalizing everyone into a rival; “Uncontrolled and uncontrollable addictions; “Ugly parodies of community; I could go on." (Chortles of recognition ) Can't say we weren't warned! All versions are pretty clear that "those who practice/do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." ("If you use your freedom this way, you will not inherit the kingdom of God" (Msg). It's a promise, folks!

But if God put mosquitoes on the earth to be food for bats and birds... wasn't that introducing death right from the beginning? (Many bats and birds eat fruits and grains as well or instead of insects). What about larger animals that are solely carnivores? Their teeth show them as such - if they were designed that way just what are/were they supposed to eat?

Doesn't work on the school kids on the bus.

The impact of the internet might well be to assist those who want to do just that, and to avoid those who talk about doing it and do otherwise - make it a "game". Seeing what's on GSC, would you want to join TWI (a church)? (Though there might well be (and certainly were) some fine folks locally who really did live the life - that's true of any church/denomination). Can't remember the beginning of this thread. If it was about the internet replacing "church", not possible, have to agree with you, WhatTheHey. Internet cannot replace personal contact. If it was about using the internet to avoid and expose harmful organizations, it encourages the individual to use his or her judgment a little more carefully. Has to be beneficial.

Never heard of this "Word Promotions Ltd" before, but guess what, Google shows them at an address in Edinburgh. So can it be assumed CG knew Gartmore was going down and then set up this business while the ship was sinking (so that he could continue to generate an income)? Bruce Mahone seems to have a franchise/license/whatever from Word Promotions Ltd known as The Capital Area Biblical Studies Fellowship (CABSF) based out of Woodbridge, VA ("established in 1995 for the purpose of Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area. The group endeavors to present Biblical teaching of the highest caliber possible, based on the most accurate research available. Activities include scheduled classes, focused conferences, and public meetings in support of local home Bible fellowships.") So you know who to avoid... depending on your pain threshold. Is Word Promotions Ltd where the dosh went from Gartmore? A UK believer told me that she was in the vicinity a few years ago, decided to visit Gartmore (she'd been WoW from there when it first opened up) - and found the place closed. So far as she was aware, there had never been any announcement that it was closing down. A tape ministry ... lotsa fellowship there (tongue in cheek). At least in your average church there are real human beings and some of them might smile at you and say hello. You might even get a cuppa. Not many hugs from a tape deck.