Twinky

Hey, I just saw from the particulars when I first found the Café, early May last year. It’s just about my first anniversary here. What a year it’s been! From abject despair to a nearly-normal functioning human being. From despair and fear to openness and joy. From a desperate job where I was treated no better than in TWI (and put up with it, how stupid is that!!) to a job where it’s a real blessing to go to work and one I’m truly thankful for. From fear for the future to being just about to buy my own house (first ever, and with quite a big loan, too). From friendless to abundance of really good friends. From a knowledge of the words of the word to a knowledge of The Word. Freedom to think and not necessarily go along with (much less agree). Still working on a lot of things, but it’s not effort as in work, it’s effort as in relaxing and letting life be lived. Very thankful for this place, which has helped me sort out such a lot in my heart and mind. Next round’s on me…

...you automatically add the word "crew" whenever you see the word "beverage" ...you find yourself ushering people to the front of any large meeting (especially in a church) ...you think ABS is something to do with money and not something to do with car brakes ...you jump into bed before midnight so that the debbul spirits can't get you ...you can't read the print in your Bible because of all your scribbled notes ...you can't hold a conversation without thinking the other person is somehow out to trick you ...you distrust your family and your oldest and dearest friends

Bolshevik, ROF, LOL! (They made a pretence of scripture with women, to beat them up.) Did they give you examples of strong Biblical men (positively) rather than weak Biblical men (Samson, when he fell for Delilah)? (Thinking about it, what example of a strong Biblical man is there? It's about how such men handled problems, and if they were so strong, they wouldn't have problems, would they? They would have handled their wives properly in the first place!)

Well I seem to be a Socinian Evangelical Wesleyan. Now if somebody could just explain all that to me... Can't I just be me???

I remember the "no attachments" thing - spying on perfectly normal friendly relationships and making them to be more than they were. Or breaking them up. Also while I was in rez, from time to time the married men (only) would be called aside by the BC and given little talks. I believe one of these was an exhortation to make sure that they had sexual relations with their wives at least once a week (I think this was seen as their minimum duty (!) to their wives). Considering how hard we got pushed in rez (this is the regular Corps, not FC) it wouldn't surprise me if both parties were far too tired to bother much more often than that anyway. Any married men out there, did you get this sort of in-rez talk? Did they include stuff about keeping your wife submissive, quiet, and you "showing leadership"? And of course there was comment during Corps nights about families who had had difficulties, which were never discussed kindly (they shouldn't have been discussed at all). THW: Yes, exactly Bolshevik: difficult for you to know what to do. But what scriptures (if any) did they hit you with to show you how you should behave? (It sure wasn't "love your wife as yourself")

There’s a really good thread running at the moment about “Wives – the Non-Persons of TWI” and the abuse women got for not being submissive enough to their husbands/fiancés etc. It was abuse of both men and women in a relationship and a corruption of all that such a special relationship should be. I’d be interested to hear of specific ways that men were abused by those above who ordered them to be more Moglike/king-like/assertive etc. The theme seems to be that they were told they should control their women (ha!) and they were responsible for keeping their women submissive. What were the specific insults/threats/scriptures that were used, from the men’s point of view? How were men coerced into accepting this was appropriate behaviour?

Nice with sausages, bacon and eggs. Nice with grilled trout or salmon. Nice with sprinkles of cheese on the cut side. Nice with sprinkles of black fresh-ground pepper on the cut side.

Forgive me... For a bit of fun, I typed Way International into Google and at the bottom of the first page it offered me: SNO-WAY INTERNATIONAL snow and ice control equipment And I thought, Snow? Yeah, we certainly saw a lot of snow! Ice control equipment? People here know all about iciness and abundance about control! Stunningly boring site (yawn).

Those people – may they rot… This surely has struck a chord here. So many have suffered – men and women. Husbands and wives, fiancés and fiancées. I recently found a book called “Women in Christianity”. It traces different “paradigm shifts” in thinking about women. Starts with a quick look at OT history. Then a lot of focus on how JC dealt with women (they were his friends, faithful where some of the men friends failed/fled) and the respect he had for them. Then a look at Acts. Then a look at medieval views of women and the rise of Mariolatry (worship of Woman as symbol rather than Woman as real human being) – running hand in hand at the time with the eventual requirement for clergy to be celebate. The serious imbalance in all aspects of life between men and women and the subjugation of women began in earnest around this time, giving rise to the idea of wife as home-body, child rearer, etc and the man out there doing business, fighting wars, etc. Then later developments from there, where women have clawed back their independence, right to exist and to – basically enjoy life. Women are still working on getting equal status with men in many areas, but it’s a lot better than it was even a couple of decades ago. It was most interesting and many ideas around the subjugation of women and their individual rights (economically, physically, everything) really clipped in, in the later Middle Ages. The TWI attitude is as bad as the worst of the Middle Ages oppression. Perhaps we can think of the cruelty to others “worthy” of oppression – the Inquisition(s) where many were tortured for different religious beliefs. TWI put male/female relationships through their own peculiar form of mental torture. Congratulations to anyone whose relationship survived. Mine didn’t. A know-it-all TC many years younger than both me and the fiancé decided he knew more about both of us and our own relationship than we ourselves did. That TC was my Corps bro, and both of us many Corps later than my fiancé. The TC was an arrogant b***** when I first met him, and he got worse the more time he spent in the WC. But on the positive side, it gives me lots of opportunity to work on forgiveness…

Man, those ravings from LCM about neat guys like Fred and Steve are just (shudder, shudder, shudder :( ). I didn't know Steve (or can't recall him) but he sounds a nice guy who had been really wrung out by LCM. I did know Fred and he was a lovely guy and my memories of him are of a sweet honest guy. Point to ponder: If these guys for their alleged faults (inc the fat HFC) were worthy of the deaths that they invited on themselves (in LCM's opinion), what is LCM, who has deliberately deceived and wilfully hurt so very many - thousands - worthy of? He should be mighty thankful he is not getting his just desserts (according ot his own warped thinking). Point 2 to ponder: who is 2x2 with him??? (Any volunters? Thank God for His grace, that we don't get what we are worthy of. And sometimes bad things, even death, happen even to those who are just living life normally. What is the grace that God is able to make abound towards us for, anyway? Just these situations, no?

As much as anything, isn't freewill about the attitude (especially the attitude of our heart) we choose to take? Not necessarily our actions, which may well be governed by external forces. JC had the choice in the garden whether to follow his own will and run away, far away, from the people he knew were coming to kill him; or whether to stay and follow God's plan. He stayed and went through with what had been prepared since the fall of man. Was that "free will" or "predestination"? If he can exercise free will at such a time, we must also have that choice available to ourselves. TWI's problem is that it usurped the position of God, suborned His people and then corrupted the concepts of free will and loving submission.

Chas, is that what the "Jesus spirit" did? Slayed people in the spirit? (shaking head, eyes wide) I think I knew "it made people pray to Jesus." Love the letter on GSC that's been posted recently that shows VPW once said that it was okay to pray to Jesus (that would be before VPW himself became Jesus, of course (tongue in cheek)). It's just words. What matters is the attitude of heart. There are people out there whose hearts are God-ward and who pray to God, pray to Jesus, believe in the trinity, don't believe in the trinity... None of us knows it all. Everyone has some sort of belief or doctrine wrong. But as we focus on His (their) love for us, then we can get answers and rest to the soul.

The Jesus devil spirit... I don't even know if there is such a thing. TWI saw so many devil spirits that didn't exist, perfectly decent people hounded over things they didn't do or know about (the homopurge - how many were accused? Probably every one who was kicked out. How many even thought of that stuff? Probably very few). TWI did not want us to know about or appreciate what JC has done and continues to do for us. TWI wanted the adulation as the intercessors. Right from PFAL where VPW said, "Write to The Teacher..." I saw the ego (didn't stop me jumping in the pond, though). Jesus spirit? I'd say (if there is one) it infected VPW big-time and made him think that he was JC. And God, too. Still working on a proper relationship with my Big Brother JC (and with my Dad) but I know they both love me and are helping me see them properly. So many prayers answered since their tender constant loving care has broken down the shell of hurt and despair. (edited for emphasis)

Bob and Dottie are going back? What about the "low level Corps" with them? (Please say they are going too) The American way of doing things is such a turn-off in Europe. That's why CG didn't succeed (never mind his personality). VPW called Europe "spiritually dark" - pity he didn't see the darkness within. Nonetheless there are some very hot believers all over Europe whose lives are shining lights. Now back to the regularly scheduled entertainment...

I'm buying my first ever house (with a mortgage, gasp, but the tale of that is another story). Things have chugged on slowly and today it became obvious that the seller is having some serious problems in her personal life. That's not helping matters to proceed. And that makes difficulties for me. I got a bit wound up and took myself off for a bit of a walk to talk it over with my Dad. I found myself just praying for that lass's comfort and for her needs to be met; for her to be soothed over what she is going through and her being able to focus on what she has to do now to help herself. So much nicer than the "God, fix my problem" sort of prayer. So much more soothing and peaceful to pray for someone else and be outward-looking not inward - with her wellbeing at heart. TWI not only forgot that we are to be servants, they never taught that we are to serve by praying for others. Especially unbelievers. (edited for italics)

Bolshevik, did you know him?! Zap me, what is this about the gleaming light? Glad to hear he got married. Very pleased for him. Is she a WC grad? Are they still with TWI? Any idea what they are doing now?

You - shot - a - fish??? :unsure: Did you mistake him for a deer or something? :blink: Or was K-Mart fresh out of fishing line?

Hi Roy, have a great day. No pix, just good wishes. Twinky

Last heard of at HQ, but that was several years ago.

Good on Leah! She is still a beautiful flautist. Did she get M&A'd when she eloped? Like the rest of us here - she's thriving on it.

My Corps bro! A great guy. Often think of him and his Pringles.

I sometimes attend Methodist chapels with friends or relatives. And I sometimes attend a surprisingly laid-back Anglican church. The focus at all of these places is so humble, and so outward-reaching, that occasionally I am shocked. But thrilled and excited. Another time I was in a Bible bookstore and a youth came in and tried unsuccessfully to snatch a customer's purse and then fled. The shopkeeper and the customer immediately prayed for the young man, for his deliverance from the evil in his mind. I was shocked ... at their compassion, and at my own unkind thoughts about the youth. The incident showed me just how thoughtless and "superior" I'd learned to be at TWI. And what can be learned from other groups. And yes, Belle: life is much more peace-full.

What an interesting and refreshing topic! Amazing how many people here have said their prayer life has picked up and they feel free to express emotions. Too many ritual prayers... We were taught not to say "Our Father, which art in heaven..." and then taught a whole load of new prayers which did become just as repetitive. Yes, it is good to pray for so many of the things that are prayed for... but the heart really wasn't there sometimes, just another ritual. And so much inward-looking prayer, not prayers of thankfulness - as if God were our servant, not the other way around. You would never speak to a person standing in front of you in that terminology. As a newish PFAL grad I got reproved for saying the "wrong" thing in manifestations (right there and then) - but then this character loved being "spiritually sharp" and jumping on people (as far as I know, the person is still with TWI). And I have seen people "reproved" for not using the right "formula" in what is clearly a heart-felt prayer. (How egotistical is that? (shudder)) Life has been wonderful since I learned to pray again. Quiet time with God is so refreshing... pressing the "re-set" button on life. To some extent it seems to me that life is a prayer, as we set our hearts to do our best according to what we know, and desire and strive to walk correctly, lovingly and manifest those Galatians fruits.

All this standing up whenever a Rev entered the room got to me big-time in rez. Especially if you were in a room where some kind of set-up or meeting or presentation was going to take place shortly afterwards. Got so confused about when one should and shouldn't stand up that quite often if at all possible I left the room altogether. But that's a little "off topic" ... Isn't what we are talking about, whether women should rather lie down (not stand up), when a Rev (or certain of them) entered a room? (tongue in cheek). And it is obvious that David also had "hustlers" - after all, 1 Kgs 1:2-4 describes their actions in finding a "young virgin" to keep him warm (the dirty old lecher). He obviously thought his right to any woman in the kingdom continued for the rest of his life and perhaps only stayed off married woman after the prophet Nathan's warning... ... a lesson LCM failed to learn.

If it were April 1 I'd feel tempted to set up a false identity and log in as "L Craig Martindale" and post: but it's not April 1 ... another year, maybe.