Twinky

"Judging by how you talk you are probably from north Jersey, New York City, Connecticut or Rhode Island. Chances are, if you are from New York City (and not those other places) people would probably be able to tell if they actually heard you speak." Offers "The Northeast" "The Midland" would be better ... that would be the Midlands in the UK. (he he)

Bless her heart, Dan might not have said it quite the best way, but she seems to have got the gist of it. Welcome, Laura, you are very perceptive.

Condolences, Hiway. I'm sure God won't hold your lava lamp against you... Safari: I was showing someone the sort of thing I had been into. I wasn't fully healed at the time. The look on his face... I gave him the privilege of consigning the tape. He understood the significance.

Here’s something that I never got an answer to in TWI: If soul = breath-life and that ceases when a person dies If body returns to dust and to its constituent molecules If spirit returns to God but only people born again have spirit What “part” of natural man gets judged? 1 Thess 3:13-14“I would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep … them that sleep in Jesus.” What about the others, the un-born-again? They’re the ones who ask the question – the ones who really need to know! How are they to be answered? Romans 2:14-16 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience F11 also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. 2 Timothy 4:1 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Why would it be necessary to judge something that doesn’t exist anyway (body, soul)? Or is this just trying to fathom the mind of God (the automobile trying to explain Ford)?

Didn’t the TWI definition include something about being a spokeman for God? Bringing forth a message from or for (=on behalf of) God? Seems to me that if a person is walking with his heart close to God, eg, in a teaching or perhaps counselling someone, then the words spoken then are just as much “prophecy” as “the manifestation of prophecy” (as taught by TWI and splinters). That person would be speaking out the words that God would have those people hear. The person might become very adept at saying “just the right thing” to a group or to an individual that that group or individual needed to help them (if they listened) in their walk with God. Wouldn’t that be prophecy? Wouldn’t that person then be a prophet? Perhaps a (gift ministry) prophet? Is the distinction between one who exercises the manifestation of prophesy (= a prophet, at that time) and a gift-ministry prophet even valid, or is one just very expert at it (we can all teach, but some are expert at it; we can all pastor/care for, but some are expert at it). Just exploring ideas here. Surely prophecy isn’t limited to a few minutes in a fellowship? Or unusual visions? (Both or either of which could be right on or right off).

Jn 10:10 really needs to be seen in context starting definitely no later than Jn 9:39 where JC is confronting the Pharisees, and perhaps as early as 9:1. In fact, Jn 10:10 forms part of his reply to them. Steal –from whom? Kill, yes, kill the sheep, kill the owner’s livelihood (in purely physical terms). Destroy – who or what? Not just destroy the sheep, but destroy the wealth that is represented by the sheep, destroy the owner of the sheep. Sure the thief would steal the sheep’s life, but is that the context? Isn’t the context firstly the physical description of a thief breaking in and sheep-rustling (no doubt an image that most people at the time could relate to); and then the spiritual sheep-rustlers stealing from the spiritual owner? Stealing from JC/God? At this point, JC is referring to himself as the “door” (Jn 10:9). From the next verse (Jn 10:11), he refers to himself as the “shepherd” and starts a new image, of wolves getting in amongst the sheep, again an image the people of the time could easily relate to. The context also includes the shepherd’s personal sacrifice if necessary (10:17) but not at any point the sheep’s (sheep singular or plural) loss or sacrifice. The confrontation is of false ministers, those not serving their “flocks”. (As I write this, my eye catches 9:10: any man (sheep?) “shall go in and out” and find pasture/what it needs – so the sheepfold is not a cult-walled prison!) TWI taught this verse so personally (well, after all, we have a personal adversary) (!) that the wider context has been completely lost. TWI was focussed on materiality – even “prosper and be in health” - such that the wider meaning of prosperity (meaning simply to do well in every sense) and having life abundantly (meaning enjoyment and fulfilment) became almost a non-issue and people couldn’t see it in a context of anything but materiality. TWI never focussed on the theft from their people of the people’s wellbeing and enjoyment of life, only on their financial state. There are still those who think solely in these terms. = = = = = Isn’t the “all” in “all that ever came before me” just in context of those claiming to be the door or the shepherd? Otherwise you are excluding not just baal worshippers but prophets that are well-spoken of, and other leaders like Joshua, Ezra, Nehemiah, which is clearly not what is meant.

Along with other things, this Principle promises so much and delivers so little. Sounds like it means, help the homeless, set up a soup kitchen, help deprived kids, look after battered wives and families, visit prisoners, help delinquent kids avoid becoming prisoners, get your hands dirty DOING something for somebody else ... lots of other *community*-focused stuff. But that was Way double-speak. The missing words at the end are "... to TWI's corporate ego." Anybody with skills in those and similar areas soon found themselves being discouraged from using their skills in ... can't remember the expression, but the general thrust was to along the lines of "dog returning to its vomit" and "salt trodden under foot as worthless" and to belittle "secular" skills and desire to help as something so much less than you could give by "serving" in the household. Folks, TWI missed a real recruiting ground. Just as well. Needy people have enough problems.

From the "honest obit" thread started in this section Extract from the James Kim obit: "Kim earned his friends' respect by the way he treated people, but many of them revered him for the way he cared for his family." About which if any leaders (current or in past decade) in TWI could that be written?

It seemed a great video at the time. When I watched a clip of it a few months ago I was appalled and embarrassed - that was good and instructive :unsure: ??? ...I rewarded LCM the way he rewarded so many - chucked the video on the fire. But I could root around for some ashes if anyone is interested?

Frank Example: JC confronting the Pharisees. Conclusion: It's more than okay to think outside the box (especially the TWI box) and you definitely have to consider the junk TWI the Pharisees spouted out. If in doubt, engage brain.

Depends on who does the teaching, doesn't it? It's Christ in you and HE does the teaching. Limitless.

Welcome! You will find decent chat here, the odd disagreement and lots to help you. You sound as if you have been lurking for a while - take the time to read the articles here. Some are really helpful. You will know the truth about TWI and the truth will set you free. Read whatever you can, drop off the waybrain and you will really see things come together. (Be warned though, this site can be addictive as you start to get healed.) What turned people onto Jesus Christ was his COMPASSION for them. It's Christ in you - so *have some compassion for yourself.* Maybe the sermon felt intellectual because there was no ranting and hissy fits. Just remember who DID NOT go after the lost sheep but rather sent them out to get lost. God has a great big hug for you and he wants you to hang out with him again. Welcome back, he says. Yeah, really. He's not wanting to condemn you but to help you. Just take time to listen; He has your recovery plan all worked out. Spit on that mean TWI voice that says you're not worth talking to. In 6 months my own life turned from abject misery and utter despair, to brilliance, enthusiasm, and tremendous success. So many things have happened that they can ONLY be of Godl Life's a real thrill. He wants this for you too. Looking forward to seeing your post in six months saying that business is booming, you are looking for extra space and you need extra staff to help you cope. Have a WONDERFUL day.

Wenches in the imagination, at least (snigger, snigger)

Great fun was had in rez when some Brits taught some interesting expressions to the US in rez. One of the US in rez came to me after some time and told me that they had been told that ... meant ... (I can't remember the expression used, but I think it was something like "wank".) One look at my shocked expression told the enquirer that it wasn't quite the "harmless" word that the Brits had said. :wacko: Those Brits had a good laugh out of it though. (For the unitiated, US folk "wank" with a spanner (wrench) to tighten nuts and bolts. Brit males might engage in an activity of the same name (verb or noun) on their own anatomy and it has nothing to do with spanners though some might say it has to do with wrenches...) The first few months in rez were occasionally a bit eye-boggling as expressions with "rude" (Brit)connotations were used with no such connotation and completely unrelated meanings in US-speak.

Well actually I rather liked being there...but then it was only for a little while, starting a few weeks before Family Camps began for the summer and then until everyone went to HQ, so it might have been a different atmosphere. Long hours and lotsa work, but a different atmosphere because there were all the outsiders there. Nobody bitched or was legalistic or confrontational. I remember it as a really good time. When I first got there, I had a few days living in a big log cabin on my own (score, hey?) and blessed every morning when I could step out onto the landing and see the sun on the mountains on the horizon. Did lots of things I'd never have done otherwise and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Not a bad idea, sorting the wheat from the tares. Plenty of tares (or tears, pronounce it as you will) in the life of every ex TWIer. When we get rid of those, we start to see what (if anything) we really have. PFAL “worked” because it hijacked the work of men who understood the basis of what became PFAL. Examine everything. Some of what was taught is true and accurate and “works”. That’s the wheat. Hold fast to that which is good. Incinerate the rest. Let what “works” fit individuals’ lives. Everyone’s circumstances are different, not the one-size-fits-all of PFAL, just like one size loaf of bread suiting the needs of one individual or an extended family. Is “make it your own” wheat or tares? Wheat, if meaning to take to heart. Tares, if it means there is no scope for individuality in application. Or is just the answering of that “either/or” question “soft extremism”?

Slightly "off topic" but ... I've just been packing to move home and - you know those padded envelopes you can buy - they're always useful to keep. I dug into my bag of padded envelopes and pulled out a useful one and as I was packing something into it, noticed it was from WayGB - Gartmore(!). The postage strip across the top proudly announced: "Europe's first line of Defence - the Power for Abundant Living Class" in a nice prominent box, the place where a firm's logo or name and return address might sit. Europe's first line of defence? HELLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPP!

When I read this it was just as if someone was peering into TWI and exposing all its nasty bits. It seemed as if it was about TWI. Yes, I wanted a highlighter too but decided a book on entirely yellow paper wasn't a blessing. When I looked at the date of the copyright, it was shocking to see that it was originally written many years before and this was just an updated version. Freeing to read - but oh, how horrifying to think that this sort of treatment has been going on ... and on ... and on ... There is nothing new under the sun... There is nothing new in spiritual abuse...

Wot, killing off your parents?? For the house?? :wacko: Probably on balance a muslim mortgage would be better than killing off your parents. At least to most people. Or is that thinking carnally? (he he he)

Acts 5:32 Neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own, but they had all things common :34 For as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that wer sold :35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet... Clearly doesn't apply to "acoustic band shells" (not "lands or houses") but neither was it their own. Wouldn't it have been more appropriate to sell it and recover the ABS spent on acquiring it, and use that for "moving the Word"? What happened with the airplane when that was disposed of? Was it sold or given away? What happens with other items that are surplus to requirements? Emporia campus and all that was in it was (rightly) sold, not given away.

Belle (or maybe Griff) Wot, didn't you hear LCM say that we are now in the Age of Confrontation? (LOL) The Word has gone all over the Word and people need confronting for not standing on it. (I know you support Pink, Belle) Looks like the age of grace is over. ======================================= Anyway (back to topic) Confrontation is just what Pink is doing.

(Spitting tacks and steam coming out of my ears) Shouldn't be surprised at this really. But I managed to get myself a degree and a fledgling career which was stomped on quite severely. If I dared to question anything (to do with what was taught, ask doctrinal questions, etc), what I got was, that I was thinking carnally and exalting myself against the knowledge of God blah blah (not that I was using my God-given brain to think things through!!). (It always seemed weird to me that so many obviously intelligent people were doing such menial and boring jobs in TWI and not fully utilizing their skills unless they were in say Way Builders - but that's thinking carnally...) Now they are paying for their kids to be trained at Uni level which should encourage them to think things through and develop their carnal thinking??! Yes they said anyone could look at finances. Once I did wander into the Finance Office and was met smilingly. I was shown around but not shown anything of substance, ie, financial dealings. And throughout my time in rez there was this unspoken thought that it was "bad form" to ask (that would be, if we'd had the time). I went to a local church recently. They were setting their budget for the year. First was their need for people, to look after burgeoning children and YP groupsl. Then there on big screens for all to see was a note of income and expenditure for the last two years. Also their plans for the next couple of years and where and how the money will be spent. A finance pack with more detail was handed out to all after the meeting, regular attenders getting their named packs, but unnamed packs handed out to anyone who asked. Accompanied by an excellent teaching from 2 Chron about building the temple - laying by stocks, supplies - we are God's dwelling place now. Building and outreach to the local community. Chatted with a member of the finance committee afterwards and he pointed out the treasurer and suggested I also speak with him if I had any questions. To a total stranger they explain all this. Yet as a "member" (?) of TWI and one who tithed, such stuff was never offered and it would be carnal to ask. Good on the kids for getting an education out of TWI, nice for them, God bless 'em. Bad on TWI for this further example of hypocrisy.

((((((Pink)))))) griffp: Glad you apologized. Pink has come a very long way since she first started posting on GSC. She still has a long way to go with this particular matter. It took all of us a long time to recover from Waybrain and her oldest kids don't want rescuing from their variant of Waybrain, at the present time. But the youngest kid is safe - now. How many other kids are being abused - now? She is very courageous in trying to bring light on this.

Wow, this is a boring Corps thread! Were there not many in WC22? Or are too many still in? (Some still are, ; pray for them (he, he)) Or are the escapees not hanging out at GSC? Or are we just an antisocial bunch who didn't like each other?

Go where you find your needs are being met, where you get what help you need. If it's in a church - fine. If it's in CFF - fine. When wherever you are stops helping or stops giving you an outlet to do what you want/need to do - go somewhere else. Shop around; God isn't limited to one denomination or organization. Make sure you can ask questions and if you are pressured or just plain uncomfortable with the people, get your running shoes on. (A big question I'd ask is, what becomes of the money? Who gets it, ultimately? What do they do with it?) Churches can also be bad in their own ways. What's important is that you are in a place where the love of God is truly demonstrated (nearly said manifested, but that sounds too TWI!) and people are genuinely cared for. Do the people love God, teach about JC and what he accomplished; or do they worship an individual? There are vibrant churches under the Anglican, Methodist and Baptist banners (at least, can't speak for other denominations) where the ritual of the denomination is ... pretty thin ... but the love of God is huge. And there are duds in the same organizations. Mr Hammeroni: Your comment "tell me what you think about VP..." is too funny!