Twinky

WW, I think he said this "spirit of leviathan" was connected with drinking. Leviathan was a sea monster of some sort, it's assumed. A huge sea snake, or a crocodile. We don't know. Speaking of snakes, PFAL or was it AC raises the question of "spirit of python" - said to be "always biting, biting." It bit its victims and injected poison and killed them. In fact, pythons, though they bite, are non-venomous and are constrictors. They're ambush predators, hiding, camouflaging themselves, and lying in wait for a suitable victim. Then they strike, instantly coiling themselves tightly round their victims, very effectively restricting their breathing and quickly suffocating them. Or causing a heart attack due to the constriction of the chest. Then it swallows the dead victim whole. It's generally undamaged, just dead. Hah! Got it! TWI itself was a python. It camouflaged itself as a Christian organisation and lay in wait for suitable victims (ideally, those with money). Got its fangs into its victims and then rapidly coiled around the victim, stifling ability to breathe, think, and stopping our hearts of compassion from beating. We looked undamaged, no broken bones - just broken minds and dead hearts. Broken finances, too. No wonder some of us felt like the walking dead, at times. Spirit of python, indeed!

I know nothing about this, but I do recall LCM ranting on about the EU (Economic Union, formerly the EEC - European Economic Community) and how bad it was for different countries to join together in a "union." For a start, it's none of his doggone business. For another, isn't the US just that - a union of lots of different States, some very much larger than some EU countries, so as to make one "union" to pursue joint goals? The fact is, none of us stands alone. We aren't "independent" or anyone - we're all "interdependent" and we need to remember that, and treat other people and other nations accordingly.

For anyone who might be interested in returning to the original subject of this thread: (It's from the Offshoots subforum: Craig has his own splinter group).

Oops

That was him. He was a nice man. TWI never took any responsibility. They just vilified him (though not as nastily as usual) for being weak. Other men (much older Corpsmen, therefore more browbeaten anyway) have declined into depression and inability to do anything. Dare not, probably. Those men are also victims, just as much as their abused wives.

Yep, spiritual partners. They prayed for in rez WC, and their in rez partners prayed for them. They sent in sponsorship; the WC rez sent letters sharing what had been taught. That was the idea, anyway. I don't know if they were considered spiritual partners if they just mutually prayed, and sent letters to each other. Maybe that wasn't "spiritual" enough if they didn't sent do$h as well. Though outside TWI, it would be considered that the praying was the more important "spiritual" part.

No idea where or when this started, but it used to confuse the heck out of me, and if I were in a room when a clergy member entered (even if it was just a quick check for something unrelated to why I was in the room), I'd stand up, all right, but to get up and get out of the vicinity real quick. A man I knew who became ordained became a real egotist after - would growl at the people who'd known, loved and supported him for years "Stand up!" when he entered a room after ordination. It stopped being a delight that this man had been so honored, and became an embarrassment. To me, at least. I now have a number of clergy friends ordained into recognized, legitimate, ministries. I think they'd be quite concerned for my mental health if I started jumping up whenever they entered a room. (Or maybe concerned for my physical needs - perhaps I wanted to use a toilet or something? )

This actually is only half of the problem. The other half is that feelings of inferiority were instilled in non-Corps folk, who were taught to look up to Corps as founts of all "spiritual" knowledge and understanding. And that probably started right from the first PFAL class anyone took. "Save your questions till the last session, and then ask." By which time, you'd been browbeaten over many sessions by so many "helpers" to think that some other person had all the answers.

So, how are "spiritual goals" different from any other kind of goals? Kid: "I want to be an astronaut/doctor/teacher/racing car driver/great sportsman when I grow up." Parents: "To achieve that, you'll need to develop skills in..., practice ..., study these subjects, learn to do these things, etc " Kid: "I want to be a church minister when I grow up." Parents: "To achieve that, you'll need to develop skills in..., practice ..., study these subjects, learn to do these things, etc " If you have other goals, like deepening your understanding of who God is, what God does, how prayer works (or doesn't), such cannot be quantified or evaluated in the same way. We can all read Bibles, memorise Bible verses, etc. How much reading and repetition of verses can be evaluated. But the results of one's study to understand and apply in daily practice should be evident in a richer life that demonstrates more of the qualities that God demands of believers: justice, kindness, gentleness, compassion, empathy, generosity, etc. ("Oh yes, I'm 20% more kind than I was this time last year." "80% of my prayers were answered this year." NOT!)

Interesting, isn't it, that the "ministry" roundly condemns those who walk away, who "don't stand" with TWI. Such people are roundly vilified, slandered, mocked. Jesus laid out the living word for many, many, people. Some chose to follow him and cling to his teachings. Some hung around for a while and then fell away. How much condemnation is heaped on them? How did Jesus vilify them and slander their names? I missed that bit in my Bible. And Paul (revered by TWI). How many walked away from him? Quite a few, who are actually mentioned. But how many are vilified? Only those who have actively walked away and are working against him. Those individuals, or some of them, are named. But not most. So, "ministry is the word" (cough) - learn from those examples. Maybe TWI have stopped that behaviour. Maybe it's just gone even more private. But of a certainty, they haven't apologised to those they've slandered, either individually or as a group (by, eg, apologising on public sites like this and the various Facebook groups).

If "the prevailing word" is "the word" as taught by TWI, it's very good it's not "all over the world." If “We are moving the Word Over the World” means pushing their agenda more and more (which it does), they need to examine why numbers have dwindled so very badly. It's, what, 80-ish years since this scam got started. Think how far the real Word got in 80 years. Communities of really strong, outstanding, believers all over the Mediterranean area - communities genuinely ready to die for their beliefs - a "school of the prophets" opened up, and many signs, miracles, wonders carried out in the Lord's name. That was in face of significant and deadly opposition from both religious and secular authorities, far worse than many believers face today. In the wise words of an ancient prophet, Gamaliel: "If their purpose or endeavor is of human origin, it will fail. 39But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God.” (Acts 5:38-39). Here's a link to the whole chapter: Acts 5 BSB (biblehub.com). It's worth having another look, and comparing it to what you saw in TWI.

Neither I nor my siblings had any "race consciousness." It wasn't an issue, because our community was all white. It just was. Back in those days. My brother moved to South Africa. The "blacks" working in the factory where he was a skilled fitter and turner were horrified that he should clear up his swarf and waste. They faced losing their jobs if a white man had to clear up. My bro also refused to employ a "maid" to clean his apartment. He was used to cleaning up his flat. But that "just wasn't done." Eventually, he employed a maid (she didn't do anything worthwhile.) He hated the patronising aspect of it. I moved to another area and met a black guy. Just friends, walking home together after night classes to improve our lot in life. Was invited to a party. When I entered the room, all eyes turned to look at me. Not hostile, just - curious. Then, they all carried on dancing or whatever they were doing. I was the only white person there. Abject lesson to me. How hard it must be for a non-white to engage in "white" communities. I was 18 years old and have never forgotten that odd feeling, half a century on. Even so, it's easy to get caught up in cultural bias. I don't want to live in a world where people are more valued for the colour of their skin than for the quality of their lives. I will like, or dislike, people according to who they are, not according to their skin, eye, or hair colour, or their ethnic background.

Teenage struggles? Any worse than the usual teenage angst? Don't all teenagers "struggle" as they develop into young adults with the ability to think and make decisions for themselves, rather than being told what to do by parents? FWIW, I found this article that gives a glimmer into his early years. It's his dad's obituary from 2014, so old news. Obituary | Rod Martindale | Roberts and Son Funeral Home, Inc. (robertsandsonfh.com)

Quite a bit also depends on your own background and how supportive that is. TWI will adjust its strategies to deal with individuals' insecurities.

Is just how I felt. It's particularly hard when for years, people have been encouraged to distance themselves from friends and earthly family who don't respond to "the word" as promoted by TWI. So when you've been M&A'd, there's nowhere to go (you think). All those bridges need to be rebuilt, too, and sometimes that's very difficult. Never fear: TWI has cast you out. GOD HAS NOT CAST YOU OUT NOR ABANDONED YOU and still loves you and will bring to you those who can help you recover from the abuse. You may not be able to help yourself, so God will put people in your path who can offer a kind word here, an action there, a place to be, a balm for your soul. You might not recognise it at the time, but it'll be something you'll hang on to. As OldSkool has said, counselling can help. Some people have found divorce recovery/workshops helpful. Or talking about it with a wise, trusted, loving friend might help. Luke 15 (also in Matt 18) 15 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.” 3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. You were not just a lost sheep - you were a stolen sheep. Not only you (as a lost/stolen sheep) will be sought for and recovered, and brought home with rejoicing - the thieves will be dealt with too, in due time. Plenty of condemnation all over the Bible about not stealing and how thieves are to be dealt with.

PFAL/TWI is very far from being "inert." It 'erts people all the time, in so many ways. And like cellophane, or any other form of plastic round the face, we know how suffocatingly dangerous it can be. And by and large it's unrecyclable. Just like most of PFAL is unrecyclable into either its constituent parts or into use elsewhere - in life or church settings. It's just landfill waste.

That quote is sooooo two-faced. It makes me want to tear my hair out. Contentious and difficult, bickering, dividing.... Aargh! And - what??? WTF?? May the Father in heaven, for the sake of the only-begotten Son, bless us with such an abundance that we may cease to be part of the problem and become a part of the answer Huh?? They got the "bless with such an abundance" all right - they forgot the "become part of the answer." (What exactly was the question, again? "Let's not be divisive" or some such?) In fact, they are not part of the problem - they are the problem.

Y'know, one thing that worries me a little about this. Some of these folks will go off and start their own splinter groups. But some of them may go along to some churches and inveigle themselves into leadership positions. After all, they are "Revs" with many years of "leadership" behind them. Do they repent their ways? Genuinely? I do know of some who have left and joined "normal" churches, and some have risen to leadership positions - and appear genuinely repentant. But who knows what some (perhaps not the R&R group, which has a different agenda) may harbour in their thinking if they never address the faulty doctrines? And when they have practised wilful blindness and worse, deception, for decades, and accreted influence and supposed power over others - hmm. It's taken many of us here years to work out sensible approaches to gospel and theology free from TWI-taint. We here at the Cafe may not agree, but at least we've put thought and effort into what we believe now (or don't believe).

Vern still has a great smile. I remember him as being a nice, kind, gentle and open man. But then, that was - oh lord - 35 years ago. And I was naive and clueless about the inner workings of TWI. God only knows what sort of man he is now.

What's missing? "We believe salvation is by grace and not by works." Nor is salvation achieved by slavish follow-the-TWI leader.

Oh, and dubistkrank - welcome. Have a cup of coffee on the house. or would you prefer a beer?

What Rocky said. Also, try to keep lines of communication open between you and your mom. There may come a time when she tries to withdraw from you under pressure from leadership, who don't want their culties to associate with people who refuse to take "the class." If you are a Bible student of any sort yourself, when she raises it, gently ask her how such-and-such a proposition (that TWI teaches) lines up with more accepted Bible teaching, or passages of scripture. If you need help on any topics, you are more than welcome to ask here. Whatever it is, we as a group are likely to have dissected it and rebutted erroneous parts. Not everything TWI teaches is wrong (especially at the beginning), but everything has a slant to it, that quickly turns into a slippery slope.

Where'd you get this about pensions, Sky?

Could be a different person, Rocky. Court documents don't spell the name that way, unless there was an amendment that I missed seeing.

I think someone should reach out to the woman and let her know that this is the MO of TWI - if it is sexual assault that she is suing about. I don't suppose either TWI or its lawyers will be telling her that. They may even be telling her that sexual assault would be out of the question.