Twinky

If Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father (wherever that may be), what is he using for food now (and for the last 2000 years)? Manna, specially created every day?

The man didn't understand English and that's clear throughout PFAL. If he doesn't understand his native language and its grammar, how the heck can he be trusted when he purports to expound on some other language? Especially one so very old, with nuances that were there originally and which no doubt changed as centuries wore on.

Oh Mike! Tell us about some of the "greater works" you've done. And I don't mean, that you read the Orange Book a hundred times.

Even the bully LCM said, "You stay hurt [emotionally] as long as you choose to." And that was a reflection made post-fog years. After he had been bullied badly by Geer. Of course, that's so easy to say. When what's happened has ripped your life away from you. When a spouse has walked out, a child has died, or whatever. When, as an immature teenager, as Bolshevik was, you don't have the ability to walk away from it, to leave it behind, to see other people's problems as just that - their problems. Not yours. I wonder how long it took LCM to get over being slung out from his Presidency and from TWI. How hurt he was, how many regrets he had. I wonder if he suffered as much as some posters here have suffered. And whether he learned any lessons. (From BecomingMe's posts, it seems not.) But that's a whole nother story. It's a fine balancing line - the one between independence, and interdependence.

Bolshevik, have you heard of "coercive control"? It can include where the victim (and yes, there is a victim) feels compelled to perform certain acts by a person in some sort of trusted, or superior, position. Examples: a husband beating his wife, or restricting her access to money; a boss requiring sexual favors of an employee; teachers/pupils and so on. Can include doctors, clergymen, and other professionals abusing their professional responsibilities. You must surely be aware of the amount of coercion at TWI HQ. Some is fairly subtle and some is blatantly overt, with lots of shade in between. LCM coerced Mrs A, and other women. It's abuse, pure and simple. An offence against the women, their husbands, and against God. It's no different from the records in 1 Sam. And I very much doubt God's opinion has changed in the last 3,000 or so years, such as to condone such behavior.

As for Linder, he knew what was going on - with VPW and with LCM, and the various young women. Which makes him an accessory. In law, and in God's eyes. Remember God's punishment on accessories to criminal behaviour - like Eli, who did nothing to stop his sons. 1 Sam 3: 11Then the LORD said to Samuel, “I am about to do something in Israel at which the ears of all who hear it will tingle. 12On that day I will carry out against Eli everything I have spoken about his family, from beginning to end. 13I told him that I would judge his house forever for the iniquity of which he knows, because his sons blasphemed Goda and he did not restrain them. 14Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli, ‘The iniquity of Eli’s house shall never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.’ ” And 1 Sam 4: “What happened, my son?” Eli asked. 17The messenger answered, “Israel has fled before the Philistines, and there has been a great slaughter among the people. Your two sons, Hophni and Phinehas, are both dead, and the ark of God has been captured.” 18As soon as the ark of God was mentioned, Eli fell backward from his chair by the city gate, and being old and heavy, he broke his neck and died So: some sins cannot be atoned. Ultimately, death, and the family wiped out. Seems fair to me.

Jolly good, then. "Glad you're documenting this. Then when the $hit really hits the fan, you can't say you didn't know. Can I hav a copy of the document, please?" He is P@ul and she is F3rn3. And I hope they are still happily married. Good on him for going in to bat for her. There are reports he nearly "batted" the trustees, and LCM in particular.

Praise the Lord, since I've been self-employed I am able to earn more than enough to support myself. And with my spare cash, when I go food shopping, I buy extra items and donate those to Foodbank to help those who are strapped for cash. With the huge surge in prices of gas (for cooking and heating), electricity, and petrol (for cars, what US calls gas), together with most other items increasing in price (think kids' clothes and shoes), life has become very difficult for some at the bottom of the payscale or on state benefits. It's heat or eat, for some.

Good movie, Spotlight. Been a while since I saw it, but I remember a lot from it. It's not just RC that this affects. In the UK, Methodists and Anglicans alike are upping their safeguarding practices to keep vulnerable people safe. And employees and volunteers in the church (and many other organisations) for people-facing roles where they might come into contact with vulnerables now have to be checked by the police Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS), which discloses not just convictions but also intel that doesn't go to conviction but can form a wider picture of a checked person's background. (DBS sounds a bit "police state" but it isn't intended as such. It came out from the horrific murders of two 10 year old schoolgirls, in a quiet country village. They'd passed by the school caretaker's house and, of course, they knew him. He lured them into the house, killed them and hid them in a ditch a few miles away. Turns out there had been suspicions about him, about rape or other unwanted sexual behaviour, not sufficient for charges to be laid, but enough to warrant a cautious eye being kept on the perpetrator. And nobody knew because he moved to a different area, different police force. Google "Soham murders" if you want to follow up. The new DBS procedure allows that suspicion to be recorded for potential employers to check.) My friend is the Safeguarding Officer for the biggest church in the city, has been for nearly two decades, and works in close contact with the diocese where there are issues. He's been told that there are about 6% abusers of various types out there in the population - which means, in a church with an electoral role of say 3-400, there could be quite a number of undesirables in the place. The church will accept them (Christ forgave sinners!) - but with very strict conditions, depending on the type of abuse it was. Might often mean that the offender has to have a nominated person chaperone them at all times. If it's a clergy member who has fallen in this way (and that definitely includes inappropriate sexual activity with a member of the congregation - including "willing" adults - a clergyman with a woman in his church), the offender will be removed from duty, face disciplinary action from the diocese, and, pending outcomes, may be put on "garden leave" on full pay, or moved to a non-contact role in some dusty dungeon of a library (say).

Sounds like one particular regular poster here. If you get a lot of these calls, you could become a whistle blower. You know, tell them you're not interested. If they persist, tell them they hurt your ears and now you will hurt theirs. Then blow a whistle loudly down the phone.

????????????????

This is my "now" take on the "faithful remnant." Any piece of cloth, gets worn out as it gets used. The fabric wears away. What's left hasn't fulfilled its function yet. The faithful bit is more the used-up portion that you cannot see, because it gave its all, got worn out, and has been washed away. It was faithful to the end, and to its own destruction. It's now a hole in the fabric. That which is left may still be faithful to perform its task. Or it might just be hanging around at the edges, hoping it never gets called into use. TWI's meaning was (is?) those who continue to "stand" with TWI and haven't chosen to follow God a different way, or been M&A'd or otherwise departed. TWI mean those who are still hanging around the edges waiting to be used, abused and discarded. I get that God has a different meaning. I'd rather be part of God's faithful remnant - because my strength, instead of being washed away, is renewed daily, like the eagle's.

It's late, my eyes are blurry, and probably my contact lenses need cleaning. I misread the above post at first glance. I misread "showing" for "snowing." Which seems to fit the context in more than one way.

Did you say you were cabinet, Sky? Or is that OldSkool? Can you support this allegation? Have you got it in a letter, say, from one of the trustees? If not, how did they "make it clear"?

"The church in ruin"? If he ever said that during my time in rez, or before or after, it went right past me. I have no such recollection. He did "teach" on the faithful remnant a time or two, not that often as I recall. His big things were the sin of homosexuality (and the need to "smoke out" homos), and that was closely linked with "spiritual suspicion" - which was a catch-all for anything he didn't like but particularly for accusing random males of the act he most abhorred. Whatever he "taught" in those years, though, he's had plenty of time to reflect on since his banishment. He could be teaching any kind of drivel now. Things too bizarre to be imagined by more normal minds.

It's been an interesting perusal of 1 Samuel. I'm struck by how many times the young David, before his coronation, insisted on seeking counsel of the lord. He would find a priest (with ephod) and ask (by Urim and Thummim) for an answer. The answer, unsurprisingly, appears to follow what David proposed to do. Did God put that desire on his heart, did God confirm a thought of David's, or is it post-fact editing? I think I'll continue and work through 2 Samuel.

And yet, when David appointed the temple and its various officers: 31These are the men David put in charge of the music in the house of the LORD after the ark rested there. 32They ministered with song before the tabernacle, the Tent of Meeting, until Solomon built the house of the LORD in Jerusalem. And they performed their duties according to the regulations given them. 33These are the men who served, together with their sons. From the Kohathites: Heman the singer, the son of Joel, the son of Samuel, 34the son of Elkanah, the son of... [and his whole genealogy is listed] So although we hear no more of Samuel's sons, at least one of his grandsons received grace to minister by singing in the temple. Of Abijah there is no trace (uses of this name are in reference to other people).

Impossible for Mike to attempt to explain anything "quickly" and doubly impossible for him to explain without obfuscating with further irrelevancies. It's all about Mike.

Mike derails every thread. He doesn't want to look at what is being posted and consider it in a non-PFAL way. He wants to "teach" us what he thinks we've "forgotten." By derailing every thread, Mike wants us to look at him. Ergo, Mike wants us to become mini-Mikes. Not even sure he wants us to look at VPW's books, since Mike himself claims to have discovered stuff that Wierwille hasn't (=didn't manage to plagiarise). ======= This seems a better option. Heb 12:2 - Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith... Which brings us back neatly to the "absent Christ" - how, please, can we fix our eyes on something that's absent, that's not there?

Some of us look at Jesus Christ and his accomplishments. Some of us also look at our magnificent God and his wonderful works. Some of us read various versions of the Bible to try to get a fuller picture and understanding. Some of us study other people's theological thinking, and then check that out. Some of us look at the Christ in our Christian brothers and sisters, and endeavour to learn from them, too. But... Some look at thieves, bullies, and corrupt individuals. Some are still stuck in a rut that has ever deepening sides, such that the bigger picture gets smaller and smaller.

It's always astonished me that a church has a "board of directors." Huh? That's "company talk." My local church is run by the parochial church council (PCC), elected by the congregation. The PCC also selects the minister in charge of the local church, in consultation with the congregation. The PCC is independent of the minister but they work closely together. The wider church is run by bishops and archbishops, and by synod, to which the minister (and all clergy) are subject. The recognised head of the church is Jesus Christ. There are no "directors." No "president." No "chairman."

And there are lots of things that a blinded mind hates. Truth, for one.

So why confine your reading to, basically, one discredited man? And not study the works of a number of reputable theologians, authors, etc. T-Bone recommends some very good sources. And he always references his sources.

Whereas a "god" promoted by a liar and a thief (not to mention various other faults) is a good god?????????? Remember that the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy, so just be a bit careful about the god you cling to, Mike.

That's it! And prior to that, you'd been encouraged to (and had) cut off all your "worldly" relationships - friends and family. You've nowhere to go. You're tied to the cult - until they cut the ties and let you fall into total oblivion. They don't care what happens to you. Well, God cares. The Good Shepherd comes out to seek you as one of the lost, when the 99 are safe. There are safe places to go - some churches, some other non-religious places. I'm sure he's seeking the ones still lost in TWI too, but they're obstinately hiding in rocks and caves.