Twinky

So... if we can "blame" the "Zero" corps, can we also "blame" BG Leonard?

Hey, they could make a decent website, for one. And keep it up to date. For two, they could include a Contact Us email address. Not an invitation to write to them. It's just for show anyway. They don't need more followers, more money, more anything (except abusees). Just need to sit pretty with what they've got. There's enough in the bank to see them through till the leaders all drop dead. And then, there's always land they can sell off.

What does Mrs Wolf think? Was she a Wayfer? I'm sure Wayfers would have a very different take on it from non-cult viewers.

Based on the book by Margaret Atwood. Anybody been watching this? Set in the "not-too-distant future" (though the book was written in 1985) and portraying a fundamentalist "Christian" takeover of the USA. Everybody's afraid, everybody's spied upon. Well acted and rather frightening.

Presumably you've sent a copy to HQ? Let us know if there's any response. Not holding my breath, though.

I'm glad to know that. Something I can accept, then, as not a VPW invention. The arrogance of that PoS wanting reputable preachers to evangelize and then send their converts to him (gag!) to corrupt and ruin. I don't think many church-attending people are aware of the Red Thread; it doesn't seem familiar to them when I've "tested the waters" previously.

Good post, T-Bone. I'd add that even if we had quite well-developed critical thinking skills, these were also constantly undermined by the allegation that we weren't spiritual enough to understand... and we weren't meek enough to receive spiritual information... and (esp in rez WC) that we were in training and shouldn't expect to know everything but learn to wait on the Lord... blah blah. I saw information/plans deliberately withheld from those involved, simply to teach them to trust leadership. Yeah, a great confidence booster. Save your questions till the end, folks.

I really loved this bit from John R's letter (though it appears he didn't get to send it before he got M&A'd: Nice idea ... but ... venture out of the secure fortress of the household at HQ??

How ridiculous, Mrs A has a wealth of knowledge. And that's appropriate to share. It's part of the Body of Christ working together, every part contributing what it can. Mrs A, having raised all your kids, could contribute a lot in the realm of childcare, and what was an appropriate cause for concern and what was "normal" for a kid growing and developing. There were so few people with kids at that time, most were singles. I'm sure that later, F was able to advise and guide some of the others who later had kids, and that's nothing specially "spiritual." In fact, that's a significant reason why TWI failed. Didn't meet people's needs, kept them in enforced infancy and dependence, didn't allow natural growth in personality and development in changed circumstances, etc etc. God gave us common sense for a reason and TWI was out to destroy that as "senses knowledge" and replace it by its own "mystery religion." So thankful we're all out. ((Hugs)) to ((Mrs A)).

Splendid: same concerns ("these are specific things that are wrong"), same response ("come and see, things are different"), followed immediately by shunning. John knew that if he accepted the invite to go to HQ, he'd get a real face-melting. And yes, pretty much that letter could have been written now.

Yes, Allan, I got the point. I'm also mindful that F's mother isn't close by to refer to. How much is too much, when it comes to doctor's visits? It does sound strange, though. Wonder how well known that was, among the local fellowships?

If you're talking about F, Allan, she wasn't so stupid. I remember cutting my toe on a rock whilst swimming in the sea; it went septic and horrible. I was "believing for healing" and refused to do anything practical except soak it in salt water. F took one look at me hobbling around and took me to a doctor, paid for it herself as I recall. Told me off in no uncertain terms. Can't speak for her childcare (I was in rez at the time) but I believe she would be a careful mum who, as many new mums, was anxious for her babe's health. I'm sure she prayed for her, as well as taking action.

By the way, on solstice weekend I'm going to Stonehenge to minister to druids!! Street Pastors from various locations around Stonehenge are invited to go and help look after the hundreds of people at the Solstice. Some attendees will fancy themselves as druids, some are just nature lovers, others will be in for the thrill of doing something different. What an opportunity to witness to anybody interested in telling them about the Son, not the Sun!

Hear, hear, T-Bone. Innies, GET OUT NOW and find a rich and abundant life where you are FREE TO SERVE and free to develop that love that God has instilled in you. See the many ways people genuinely serve their communities. Engage in startling discourse. You may even find that some of the "special knowledge" that TWI is the guardian of - are widely known in the church. And other "special knowledge" is so irrelevant that nobody cares a whit.

I think there was another thread elsewhere about the purchase of Gartmore. It was no mistake. It is in a stunningly gorgeous setting, a mansion, with classrooms and other facilities. Wouldn't surprise me if he wanted it because it was so much more beautiful than Ohio, or even Gunnison. C'mon, do you think in the British Isles there was only one property for sale? But it would have been cheaper because of its remoteness. And its dilapidation (because it was very dilapidated when it was purchased). Transport is difficult, remote, and a long way from the rest of Europe - the farthest north place, when in fact for Europe a better location would have been France or Germany, easier for all the European believers, more central. BUT that might require CG to learn those languages fluently enough, or to allow control to those who did speak those languages (even though most people there are in fact very fluent in English and probably speak better English than CG). No, NEVER! Never give up control! Whatever, the place was a monument to his ego. And his controlling of volunteers and in particular European Corps, who worked willingly and hard under the abuse meted out to him. Vols and EC flocked to the place to try to help with the necessary works. None of their help was good enough. No, a martyr for his faith. Or his ego. Not a blunder - it was his scheme all along.

And I'm putting my Grease mark firmly in the NO category, for recommending VPW's books to anyone. I think I burned mine so that no-one else could read them and be influenced by them.

A bit off topic this, but responds to Mike's post about being "caught away." With God, time is an eternal NOW. Time does not have the sequential arrangement we understand. RIGHT NOW Adam is being created, is sinning, and is being cast out. RIGHT NOW the books of the OT, all of them, are being written. RIGHT NOW Jesus is being conceived, born, living his life, being murdered, and rising. RIGHT NOW we are living our lives, in the present as we understand it, and in the future as we do not yet perceive those lives. God invented time and inhabits it. And His time is not our timescale. Many Christians understand this. It is also borne out by astronomical data. That's way beyond what my brain comprehends. I wonder if the "caught away" part is a peek into the future, or a peek into the spiritual world that is invisible to us? A couple of references: Elijah being "caught up" in 2 Kings 2:11; and 2 Ki 6:17 where the spiritual war is going on all around Elisha and his servant, and Elisha prays that his servant gets that peek into the spiritual world around him.

I'm not even going to express an opinion on Mike's "...we already are into the beginning of the Return, and that it is already underway..." save to say that my understanding is that NO-ONE knows when this event will be. Though technically I suppose we have been into the "beginning of the return" (or at least awaiting the return) since the day Jesus ascended.

The pure mind of Christ????????????? (Guffaws loudly) You know some other "Christ," Mike. But here's a song for you:

A lot, if not all, of them, were M&A'd well before this video. Frankly, I don't care what they do. Getting a life, a real life, a richly abundant life, would be a good start.

Since scholarly "man-made"attempts are in fact pretty scholarly, look at the cast of players for most reputable Bible versions (translators). They aren't one man's version of what it says; nor are they simply decision by committee. It is useful to read passages in more than one version, which gives a wider look-round of words and thoughts that have been translated, and also keeps vocabulary up to date (one of the reasons VPW used "KJV" was to show off his ability at understanding - at understanding what Bible scholars have been teaching and printing in later versions, for centuries. Yet he taught it - ha ha - as if he were the only one who knew this. "...every time I open up a PFAL collateral I’m exposed to many verses and sometimes large passages of the same KJV verses. I think that counts for something." No, it counts for nothing. Read these verses for yourself and in context. VPW was outrageous at taking verses out of context, choosing what supported whatever point he propounded at the time. You must know that, surely? Even in AV (what you call KJV; try getting the name right, for starters) in many printings there are references back to OT passages where a fragment is quoted in the NT. Did VPW ever refer people back to the OT? Have you ever looked back into the OT at what's referenced? Sometimes the OT passage referred to goes on for several chapters. The OT is not irrelevant; it's a significant part of the background and thinking in the gospels (you read them too, don't you?) as well as in the epistles. Did you go to Sunday school as a child? If so, you will probably know the second verse to the one I'm going to reference in a moment. Be sure you aren't putting yourself in the second verse category. (sings) "The wise man built his house upon the rock..."

Mike - do you spend this much time and effort in actually searching the scriptures? Jesus said: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." (Jn 5:39) Testify of whom? Of Jesus Christ - not of any man, and especially, the scriptures do not testify about VPW! Beware, Mike, if you are not searching the scriptures, because Jn 5:40 warns, it seems sorrowfully to me: "And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." If you can't find Jesus in simply searching the scriptures but need to actually come to him - however can you find him, and the life he offers, by searching something other than the scriptures? Beware this also, Mike: "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?" (Jn 5:44-45)

DWBH: for real? How much grossing-out can there be? (and NO don't tell me, enough is enough!) I'm still nauseous over the stuff you told me in PM.

Very funny, WW

WC32, my oh my, I begin to feel old. If they were still denoting Corps in that way, they'd be on WC45 or thereabouts now. Aren't they called "Class of xxxx" nowadays? so I've read here. Actually I reckon they must be back to the Zero Corps now - can't imagine a huge number of people wanting to throw their lives away in this cult. The days of Corps intakes in the hundreds are long gone, never to return. TWI'd never admit that no-one wants to sign up - would say instead that people of appropriate calibre haven't applied, or some such lie.