oldiesman

Actually I believe PFAL and the rest of the teachings by Wierwille stand or fall on their own in and of themselves and aren't (and shouldn't be deemed as) automatically false because he lied about the snow storm. I feel the same way about the plagiarism in that, plagiarized material doesn't make the material itself false.

Agreed. I believe he would have had to be in fellowship with the Father at those times he was "doing the word" which includes receiving revelation and taking action on it. His stuff wasn't original, so I believe his main job was compiling, organizing in one package, and he could have done all that just fine and godly without making up a .... snow story.

Does the fact that a person commits horrible sins disqualify the person from receiving revelation? I don't think so -- because God chose numerous sinners throughout history who had Faith in Him who also were horrible sinners. Indeed, all the Bible came from sinners because Jesus never wrote a book. We believe (or disbelieve) the writings despite the sins of the individual delivering it.

In TWI I experienced a twofold method of retention…or rather detention…I thought of wierwille / PFAL as the be-all and end-all of human existence. After all, wierwille was chosen by God and assigned the task of teaching us everything we needed to know. Why look any further? All other sources of knowledge pale in comparison to God-teaching-wierwille-teaching-us, right? And wierwille, LCM and all the other top leadership are always trustworthy too. If they find out that something is wrong, they’ll tell us, right? What’s there to worry about? Absolutely, I thought that way too in TWI. Then when I delved into the RC church, I saw that they think that way too. "It's our way or the highway." I guess it's a common phenomenon with corporate religions/ religious groups although I must say, if you don't attend or leave the RC church there's nobody there telling you to watch out that the devil doesn't make you a greasepot.

Agree. As we know from the scriptures 'the just shall live by Faith' and we know faith is subjective. As one short example, VPW once said of one of his mentors' statement (I forgot who): 'no one can prove the Trinity, we accept it by Faith." Isn't that a true statement? Everything about God we either accept or reject by Faith or unbelief? Especially in today's world 2000 years later, when none of us has seen Jesus with our own eyes.

I don't know what was in VPWs heart or his intention when he made the statement, but I took that to mean: "try it, if it doesn't work for you, forget it and leave. If it does work for you, stay with it." As far as the event actually taking place, a good case has been made that it never happened but I'm sticking with my thought that it's unproven and highly unlikely. Whether it's true or not is up to the individual; I don't believe it myself.

VPW said in one of this teachings that if his "stuff" doesn't work for you, "kick it." If it does work, then "you've found an answer." So although the unproven 1942 promise was a hook, even so, PFAL and everything else in TWI had to be tested by the individual himself for truth and accuracy. If not, if one simply assumes its true and reject all other doctrine, and PFAL really is error, then you're screwed.

Happy New Year! I trust everyone had a wonderful Hanukkah and Christmas 2022. I had lots of fun posting the Christmas carols. Is VPW in heaven? If we go by PFAL, no, he is "awaiting the return", and then is "heaven bound and all power from Hell cannot stop him from going." IF we go by RC catechism, he's either in HELL, or PURGATORY. The likelihood that he shot straight up to heaven, or the Beatific Vision, is HIGHLY unlikely; I'm not saying that only for VPW but all of us as this is what Catholics believe. I learned this in the RCIA course that I took: Purgatory is the most common place after death. Now where do I stand on this? I prefer to believe the latter because if we go by PFAL and its wrong, we are truly screwed for eternity. I don't want you or me or anyone to go to hell because we got that basic truth wrong. All comments welcome.

That's an interesting goal and may be useful. Only remember Mike, not everything in PFAL is necessarily God-breathed (VPs own words) and there's ooodles of teachings in the world that are NOT in PFAL and that are quite useful and truthful and Godly.

Your point is well taken. I always took that statement to mean you can't go beyond what's in your head from what you've been exposed to, from whatever source you choose.

Your point is well taken. I will watch out for him.

When I talk to him will find out exactly which class it was. Video? Audio? New revamped? His use of the words "available" and "manifestations" got me thinking that he took the original, but I will find out. Thx for your prayers. I mentioned to him about posting this so maybe he will come on here at some point? I also mentioned to him about the RC church spiritual gifts/manifestions meeting that I go to sometimes, and he may want to check that out at some point.

This only happened to me yesterday! A local Christian friend of mine sent me an email (not only me but everyone on his email list.) After reading this unusual email, I immediately called him up and mentioned that I was in TWI for some 20 years, and asked to talk soon. Below is the pertinent part of what he wrote; the names have been redacted. ---------- Ok, the baptism in the holy spirit (pneuma hagion). I did not plan on going to be baptized in the holy spirit; I did not even know that was available. Jumping ahead and to be revisited below, I can now speak in tongues. This is just one of the nine manifestations of the holy spirit (pneuma hagion). When V******* and I spoke on the phone back in November, I told her a fast was laid on my heart. I explained I wanted to conduct this fast at her house. V*******, N***, and A**** are all born again Saints. It is a godly house. I will say this with certainty, if you dedicate yourself to the course, you will be baptized in the holy spirit, as I was and her son, N***. We completed the course together. Going back to our conversation in November, V******* kindly obliged to host me for my fast and she brought up the course she leads and teaches: Power for Abundant Living - which is the master class course presided over by Victor Paul Wierwille, PhD. Dr. Wierwille dedicated much of his adult life to rightly dividing the Word of God. As stated last week: From the second Epistle of Paul the Apostle to Timothy, chapter 2, verse 15: Studie to shewe thy self approued vnto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly diuiding the word of trueth. As Dr. Wierwille accurately stated, to receive anything from God, we must know: What is available How to receive it What to do with it after receiving it We must always go back to His Word for answers. His Word is the only source of truth. God has a purpose for every single Word of the Bible and its place. You cannot go beyond what you are taught. That was a major theme last week in the Bible study course. From the Book of the Prophet Hosea, chapter 4, verse 6: My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge : because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me : seeing thou hast forgotten the lawe of thy God, I wil also forget thy children. It is by no mistake, nor accident that God made this Divine appointment of V******* and I by way of G*** and S******, as explained last week. We, His children, are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. Truly, you cannot go beyond what you are taught. It baffles me that I have not heard of the baptism in the holy spirit. I am surrounded by Saints, I go to two Services on Sunday, but the baptism in the holy spirit has eluded my eares. Nonetheless, the ways of God are perfect and He chose V******* to lead my baptism by way of Dr. Wierwille. Praise be God for that. This was precisely as it was meant to happen. What are the nine manifestations of the holy spirit? From the first Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Corinthians, chapter 12, verses 1, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, & 13: 1. Now concerning spirituall giftes (matters) brethren, I would not haue you ignorant. 7. But the manifestation of the spirit is giuen to euery man to profit withall. 8. For to one is giuen by the spirit, the word of wisedome, to another the word of knowledge, by the same spirit. 9. To another faith, by the same spirit : to another the gifts of healing, by the same spirit : 10. To another the working of miracles, to another prophecie, to another discerning of spirits, to another divers kindes of tongues, to another the interpretations of tongues. 11. But all these worketh that one and the self same spirit, diuiding to euery man seuerally as he will. 12. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one bodie : so also is Christ. 13. For by one spirit are we all baptized into one bodie, whether wee bee Jewes of Gentiles, whether wee bee bond or free : and haue beene all made to drinke into one spirit. As stated above, I can now speak in tongues. If you ask of it, I will speak in tongues in front of you. However, it is not a show. It is simply a sign to you. Please grant me liberty on that. Speaking in tongues is for private prayer or for interpretation in a meeting of believers. Each man, each woman speaks in their own tongue. Speaking in tongues is speaking in the Spirit, which was granted to born again believers. Works need be done to operate the nine manifestations. From the first Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Corinthians, chapter 14, verse 2: For he that speaketh in an unknowen tongue, speaketh not vnto men, but vnto God : for no man vnderstandeth him : howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. I was taught the water baptism, not the baptism in the holy spirit (pneuma hagion). From the Acts of the Apostles, chapter 1, verse 5: For John truely baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the holy Ghost, not many days hence. From the Acts of the Apostles, chapter 11, verse 16: Then remembered I the word of the LORD, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water : but ye shall be baptized in the holy Ghost. From the Gospel according to Matthew, chapter 28, verse 19: Goe ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Sonne, and of the holy Ghost. Again, my friends: You cannot go beyond what you are taught. I was only taught the baptism of John which is the water baptism. I knew not of the baptism in the holy spirit. Now, I do know and, now, I am baptized in the holy spirit. Understand this my friends, I will not sit idly with this baptism. I plan on using these manifestations to serve, as Jesus in the flesh did. For the same holy spirit (pneuma hagion) that was in His flesh, is also in my flesh. Water cannot save us. Listed at the bottom of these Ledger's is how you can be saved. If you would like to know or learn more, I can be a resource to you. With that, my heart is overfilled with love: ---------- Blessings to You and Yours I wish you a blessed time where we honor the birth of Jesus of Nazareth, our LORD who took on the flesh of man. I pray it is a joyous time for you, I pray for your travels to, during, and from, I pray for His love to be poured upon you. In His most precious Name, I do love you as a brother and as a sister. God bless you firmly! ---------- Pray. Pray without ceasing. You can save yourself this morning. From the Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romanes, chapter 10, verses 9 & 10: 9. That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth the LORD Jesus, and shalt beleeue in thine heart, that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saued. 10. For with the heart man beleeueth vnto righteousnesse, and with the mouth confession is made vnto saluation.

My sister (who once worked in the Trustee office) told me that a long time ago, but I have no idea what they currently do.

Don't know what their current policy is, but I always thought that only those who were put on the 'mark and avoid' list were debarred from attendance.

I wouldn't mind swinging by a local fellowship if they had one around here. It'd be interesting to say the least, and would try to pick their brain to see what's changed if anything. One thing I won't do is send any $$$$ to headquarters, if that's the way they still do it.

Agreed. I believe you see what I do that what's crucial is meekness, walking in love as Jesus did, asking for forgiveness when you screw up. It's even more important than the doctrine.