waysider

John I don't mean this to sound disrespectful but, I don't think you actually understand what a cult is. Take a moment to glance at the following snippet. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Revised Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D. Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship. Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool. -------------------------------------------------------- *The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law. *Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. *Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s). *The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth). *The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). *The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. *The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations). *The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities). *The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion. *Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group. *The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members. *The group is preoccupied with making money. *Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities. *Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. *The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group. -------------------------------------------------- This checklist will be published in the new book, Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships by Janja Lalich and Madeleine Tobias (Berkeley: Bay Tree Publishing, 2006). It was adapted from a checklist originally developed by Michael Langone.

Date and Switch.......common recruitment tactic of The Way.

TWI would have never survived without it.

It was a popular American T.V. show in the 1950's, Twinky, that overly romanticized the simple life in rural America. I haven't the foggiest idea why Johniam associates this with cults.

Maybe they said Aunt Bea's peach cobbler was "to die for".

Like that?

It's certainly not the only time representatives of The Way have resorted to gun brandishing and strong-arm tactics to bully opponents into submission. Guns were kept out of sight at the podium. You can read Don't Worry's interview for more specifics.

Strawman argument. You've twisted Hassan's words to make it look like he said something he never said. Could it be you get so riled up about this stuff because you just can't accept you were duped like the rest of us?

"How comforting and secure it is to know that YOU get to decide which posts are thoughtful and which topics are useful. This place is just as one sided as any other." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ John You, also, get to decide which posts are thoughtful and which posts are useful...... for you. As to being one-sided, it depends on your definition. I would probably say it is "biased", rather than one-sided because both sides are, indeed, presented. It is, after all, an anti-Way site. Still, you are given the opportunity to present your case, a luxury that is not afforded on many other sites.

"What, you didn't get enough in rez?"

This is very good, skyrider. My wife and I were talking just the other day about the difference between some of the other social media sites and GSC. On FB, for example, if someone disagrees with a thread you start, you just "zap" them. POOF! They're gone. No room to disagree or express your logic for doing so. Just a click of the mouse...the thread is gone. Here, people disagree all the time but there are rules to follow. "Your Mama wears combat boots" just doesn't 'get it' here. This is an element that was sorely missing in The Way. In FellowLaborers, for example, if you disagreed with some aspect of the program, you had to be very, very careful about how you expressed your disagreement and with whom. I'm sure it must have been the same way in The Corps or on HQ Staff.

No. (my personal belief) I think it happened when he convinced us (in session 7?) that there was danger in giving considered thought to what he was pitching.

If this seems obtuse, I promise you, that's not my intent. I like Cheech and Chong.... always have. But, I find a bit of humorous irony in recognizing they made their fortune by making fun of the people who helped them make their fortune. Confused yet? I see a correlation of sorts when I see people who are living paycheck-to-paycheck, foregoing needed medical care for lack of affordable health care, etc., promoting propaganda intended to benefit the very segment of society that plays a depriving role. Now, I don't mean to turn this into a political discussion of my point. I'm only throwing that out there as a matter of opinion. That's all it is, just an opinion. It makes me wonder, though, if what I'm seeing is, perhaps, somewhat of a Stockholm Syndrome, on a large scale.

There seems to be a multitude of "extreme opinion" radio and television personalities who have welcomed the opportunity to take up the mantle in this regard. There is easy access to all types of opinion. One needn't look too far to find one with which they agree.

Remember that Paul Simon song, "Still Crazy After All These Years"?......Still Attracted To Nuttiness After All These Years (On GSC).

"Sleep deprivation, mind-control, isolation, restricted communication, etc. were factors" Absolutely! This is the sort of thing that may have been missed by believers who never moved outside the local level or maybe spent a hitch in a free-wheeling sort of W.O.W. family. But, these are, indeed , the sort of things that constitute cultic experience. Add to these a charismatic leader, proprietary knowledge and a sense of elitism and you have a recipe for trouble. Not every cult has every trait. In fact, a group can have these traits without any "religious" affiliation. I, too, can clearly remember Wierwille saying, "They consider us a cult because we don't believe that Jesus is God". He was wrong. People considered us a cult because we displayed the characteristics of a cult, not because of our stance on the Trinity..

That description of a TWI potluck potbless kinda reminds me of that song by Lucinda Williams called "You took my joy...and I want it back".

Exiled from the world....what a strange concept.

....and SOWERS is carrying the torch. Put it in a new jar, slap a cool label on it and pretend no one will notice it's the same old, same old.

If I had to venture a guess, it would be that he plucked them from somewhere amongst the writings of Eli Stanley Jones. The Way Corps, after all, was really a bastardization of Jones' Christian Ashram concept. (Jones is also credited with coining the phrase, "Fear is sand in the machinery of life.".)

"It's addressed (or not addressed) to me.">>>>>That was/is a huge get-out-of-jail ticket in TWI and it's derivative forms. You have to do at least 2 things to make that work. First, you have to accept dispensationalism. Second, you have to ignore contextual meaning whenever it interjects conflicting thought. I remember, as a kid, we would take an ordinary pen and bet someone it could write any color. "Make it write green", they would say. So, we would pick up the pen and, one by one, spell out the letters GREEN.

I don't know their origin. I do know, however, that they were also the FellowLaborer's princples and are now the principles of V2P2's posse. HERE

"As far as plagiarism goes, who cares? God doesn't." Really?? God doesn't care about stealing and deception? I must have missed that lesson in Sunday School. "It's God's word or it isn't." So much of what VP taught has been shown to be inaccurate, misrepresented and twisted to accommodate his dubious agendas, I would have to conclude 'it isn't'. Actual errors in PFAL

....."and pray for God to send you billionaires... BORED BILLIONAIRES... who will be "blessed" by the errors you unwittingly teach." Maybe not even 'unwittingly'......Surely, those jokers over at V2P2's truck patch are aware of the error they propound.....and, yet, they continue to teach it.

What's that old adage? "Doing the same crazy thing over and over, hoping for different results." Pickles in a jar labeled "Peaches"