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From post #1: Number 10 In PFAL, Wierwille states that in Luke 2, Jesus was taken to the temple for bar-mitzvah at age 12 instead of 13 because he was considered illegitimate. In truth, the passage in Luke 2 has nothing whatsoever to do with bar-mitzvah. The passage states rather clearly that they were celebrating Passover, not Jesus’ bar-mitzvah. In addition, there is no such custom in Judaism (treating illegitimate children differently for the purpose of bar-mitzvah). Wierwille cites “an old piece of literature” as his source for this bizarre claim. ************************************************************** Here are some links dealing with the origins of Bar Mitzvah: Bar Mitzvah The modern method of celebrating one's becoming a Bar Mitzvah did not exist in the time of the Bible, Mishnah or Talmud. Passages in the books of Exodus and Numbers note the age of majority for army service as twenty.[6] The term "Bar Mitzvah" appears first in the Talmud, the codification of the Jewish oral Torah compiled in the early 1st millennium of the common era, to connote "an [agent] who is subject to scriptural commands,"[7] and the age of thirteen is also mentioned in the Mishnah as the time one is obligated to observe the Torah's commandments: "At five years old a person should study the Scriptures, at ten years for the Mishnah, at thirteen for the commandments..."[8][9] The Talmud gives thirteen as the age at which a boy's vows are legally binding, and states that this is a result of his being a "man," as required in Numbers 6:2.[10] The term "Bar Mitzvah", in the sense it is now used, can not be clearly traced earlier than the fourteenth century, the older rabbinical term being "gadol" (adult) or "bar 'onshin" (son of punishment); that is, liable to punishment for his own misdoings. [11] Many sources indicate that the ceremonial observation of a Bar Mitzvah developed in the Middle Ages,[9][12] however, there are extensive earlier references to thirteen as the age of majority with respect to following the commandments of the Torah, as well as Talmudic references to observing this rite of passage with a religious ceremony, including:------- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_and_Bat_Mitzvah Historians also found that ancient initiations usually occurred when a boy was between the ages of twelve and fourteen, as he reached maturity. Similarly, rabbis fixed the age of responsibility for Jewish boys at age thirteen during the Middle Ages. http://www.mnment.com/brochure/bar.mitzvah.history.html _********************************************** PFAL is saturated with blatant, actual errors.

Do tell.

The very latest from Way Prod.

Bump Oops! I Didn't see Jeff had brought it back.

I won't disagree with you on that. Still, I am genuinely interested in knowing if there were classes that focused on these (cough) "subjects". I suppose I could ask a family member who went to WC/E but he doesn't talk much about it anymore.

Self delusion is not freedom.

"Then they don't do anything to get better and start develop a twitch from believing so hard . . . . " ------------Or worse

I really, really hope you're being sarcastic.

The reference I made was regarding The Way of Ohio Limb HQ.

Break away??? Au contraire He had already broken away and then returned.

If I had a ministry, this would be my theme: "Life is like a bowl of oat bran. You wake every morning and it's there."

Wow!! What a bummer. They really need to get their believing up! edit: I drove past the old Way of Ohio HQ not so long ago. Same deal. Over-run with weeds and desperately needing repair. Of course, The Way no longer owns the property so the blame is not on them. Still, when you think of all the "sweat equity" we FLO put into that place, it really drives home what a waste of time it all was.

Not much different than the cr@p that goes on in corporate America. "Oh, look at me!. I've decided to forego my salary this year. Aren't I just wonderful?-----Shhhhh! No need to ruffle feathers by telling people about the 47 MILLION dollar bonus I'll be accepting."

Nope. Just personal experience.

Yea verily Let they who pimpeth, pimpeth no more.

The Stepford Wives looked happy, too.

Are we really using this atrocious video to "prove" RR is a "good person"? I was hoping for something a bit more concrete and directly connected.

How to get a cat to each what you decide it should eat: Don't feed it anything else, no matter how much it plays on your sympathy. DO make sure it has plenty of water during the transition.

She was an integral part of the process that supplied VPW and LCM with innocent young woman to drug, rape and otherwise abuse. She has never offered a public apology or acknowledgment of her complicity. In fact, she flat out lied about it when confronted by legal personnel. What, pray tell, has she done that absolves her and sets her in the position of pastoring? How can she help people "heal their hearts" when she was a key player in the origination of their sorrows? Allow me to state it a bit more bluntly. "Can a pimp change its spots?"

Hi, Kizka It's terrible what was done to you. The Way was a very sick place in so very many ways. I hope you will stick around awhile and get to know us. There is a lot of interesting information here on the front page. (You might be particularly interested in "Losing The Way".) Glad you found this place.

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Oh, yes. I'm quite sure he must have been.

I can recall one particular time in FLO when I had to get special permission to go to the post office in town to retrieve a special package from home on a Saturday morning. Hey! If they let ME ditch work assignment, EVERYBODY will be doing it before long. (Same deal with haircuts and dental appointments.)

Absolutely. "Give a man a fish story----(PFAL)----- and you'll eat today. Teach him to fish----ABS----- and you'll eat for a lifetime."