now I see

How is it that in the last 10 years I just happen to meet some of the top men high up in the old twi food chain, real top, top men, and they're are all screwed up. They are shells of the men they once were, or they are so lost in their own reflection that they'll never get their heads out of their a*s? The shell men are all past miracle workers, healing the blind kind, and now they are utterley lost. And Weirwille did this to them. We all must have had spiritual blinders on not to see it, slumber, asleep, or talked ourselves out of it, argued with God. I F'n hate that this happened to these people, they were once productive for God. F**k the devil and the horse he rode in on.

What is so different about how the manifestations/gifts are taught?

I know they both stayed too long at twi...a little leaven leaventh the whole lump. Shroyer is the same as he always was, I've seen his dark side before when he was with the ministry and after with CFF. Like a leopard, he hasn't changed his spots. Buyer beware.

I guess weirwille got what he wanted, a ministry with some real teeth in it....

Yeah, who??? Others have posted that it was more a mirror of what doc vic didn't do that was the cause of failure.

Who here has taken BG Leonard classes, and what were they like? What were the Aha! moments, what confusion did it clear up, what did you learn differently in the operation of manifestations (gifts) of the holy spirit? Generaly speaking, overall what did it (they) do for you?

2 + 1 cents, thanks for the insight, you are probably right. YIdon'tgo-The wrongs that needed to righted probably were to pull back the whole concept of the ministry and roll it back to the way it was as of 1969 before the movement of the word became a centralized hierarchical ministry hijacked by VP.

Pink- I'm not sure that C G**r would ever get very involved with any fellowship situation unless it related to the operation of one of his classes, or it involved someone whom he had a personal ongoing relationship with. He definitely is not a minister that is associated with any particular fellowship, he is a clearing house for Word Promotions newletters, classes and asundry research products. It is all business when it comes to liscensing his class instructors, but not ministerial. Your conventional definitions just don't fit here. I am sorry for what you're going through, but you will never get the kind of support you expected from G**r, he never intended to do so. Get that kind of support from friends, family, legal resources, law enforcement, another church, GS posters, but not G**r. I don't personally know about G_er, but I know for a fact that the coach driver before him was a wife abuser, if the example came from the top down, then there'd be no natural sympathy for you.

I found a blog that says it will be shown in the bay area, on a san Francisco PBS station on Oct 29th, but that doesn't mean it will be shown on that date on all PBS stations. http://marcpitman.com/2006/06/02/interesti...id-di-sabatino/ What is for sale is the filmaker's book and pre-sales of the making of the documentary which you'll find on the lonniefrisbee.com web site, the blog indicates indicates PBS will sell the documentary. Has anyone ever heard of the filmaker or read his book "the Jesus People Movement" by David Di Sabatino?

I just ran across a web site for a documentary about Lonnie Frisb_e and the Jesus Movement. It even has a film clip of an interview with Steve H_efner and his wife. Has anyone seen this documentary? Here's the link: http://www.lonniefrisbee.com/index.htm

That time period was weird and confusing...we were told to get back to God and the Word, but with so much other crap mixed into what we thought was doctrine how was that supposed to happen. Ge*r was still resting on VP's laurels and told the in residence Corps to study PFAL and increase the work program, like some magical fix. Ge*r did not have the answers either. I suppose Ge*r thought the BOT and LCM were going to lead us back to God, maybe he told them to read PFAL too! :(

Right on-it's done.

Just wondering if anyone has heard from J*m D**p recently? Where is he and what is he doing?

John, take a look at the threads involving Jim Doop, Steve Heefner and the Jesus movement, those accounts give an entirely different picture of VPW and twi than most are aware of. Also, read the threads regarding BG Leonard's classes and how similar they are to what VP's later foundational class, clear down to the charts. Might shed more light on what needs to be unveiled. Also, I'm not so sure most G**r fellowships know about G**r mixing the drinks w/the rape drugs that were given to the girls that he solicited for the boss. It seems as though many of them who spoke up were run off quickly.

Thanks for bumping it WordWolf!

HA HA! I actually did Laugh Out Loud!!!!!!

Alfa....sorry to cut across your doctrine...just telling what I saw and know, and to reiterate, I'm not attending G**r fellowships, there are many flaws out in G**rland. No question about that.

I looked for the thread - Howard's Mattress - and couldn't find it, perhaps the mod could dig it up??

PinkLady, I agree with you that G**r really doesn't get involved with anyone except his lisenced class coordinators, his research people, and a select group of upper eschalon ex-twi associates. From what I know, he is not available for counseling at large, doesn't do guest appearances, but does do a lot of research. He has his own home fellowship, of which I actually know of someone who goes there, and there are no complaints from that person. I personally don't attend a G**r fellowship, and haven't for years.

johniam, just to clarify my comments about the G**r group was in the context and in respect to information dealing with the bad stuff at twi, ie., Dr's transgressions, the BOT's problems, the adultery and abuses etc. All my comments were appointed to that topic. From what I've seen, it's accross the board, the old way of thinking that the ministry be not blamed runs from the top (G**r) down, no public discourse of the details of VPW and TWI's demise is likely tolerated and is not encouraged. Since you mentioned it, I think there are some great G**r fellowships, and some really bad ones. It all depends on the felllowship coordinator. There are some real neaderthol FC's and LC's that have their feet cememted in the old ways of doing things and haven't quite "got it" enough to rid themselves of the old ways. Just my opinion.....

Hey, I was wondering that too, is he still alive? Where is he and what is he doing? What about Emogeane?

T-Bone, I agree, I didn't think as far out of the box as I should have. I felt I had so much invested in twi that it broke my heart, it felt like I was experiencing a divorce when it came down to departing. I agree with what Goey wrote as well, but I still feel that there is more to twi's reason for demise than what's been stated here on this thread.

Thanks for the welcome WordWolf, interesting web site ya'll got here. :P

I think the G**r group is still elevating Dr's position of "Our Father in the Word" to the extent that they do not want to hear of any blight on his reputation, resulting in "negative confession and thinking", and think such information is beyond the "pay grade" of the average joe believer's responsibility. Remember how often G**r in the POP mentioned that his intention was to handle the problems of twi strictly with the BOT first, then information leaked at HQ, so they had to be brought in, then the Clergy, then the Corps, then the believer, in that order because each group did not "return to the Word". He also repeatedly mentions he didn't want anyone but the trustees to know. I think the veil is still up and in operation with the G**r group, certain things have never been identified nor addressed, and that is why many of their fellowship are stale and stagnant to this day, they are in the house but with all the windows closed and the drapes drawn, someone needs to open a window and let some light in. They have never moved beyond the day of the reading of POP, and have not cleaned the house thoroughly enough. Discussion of the former transgressions of twi and BOT is discouraged, and so most do not even know of the widespread adultery or of Dr's lifestyle and G**r's involvement in such practices. If you approached them on such subject matter, they probably would accuse you of harshing their believing buzz, to say the least.

I remember the anti Christmas being strongly enforced, I never heard of Bless and Treat, I do remember Happy Hearts and Resurrection Sunday, but those who still said Easter or Valentines really were ignored or were not corrected with nearly the same vehemence that Christmas users were!