ex10

I have a hard time with comparisons between VP and The Way Inc., and anything to do with the bible. , or bible characters. Forgive me, maybe I'm too sarcastic and skeptical, but I don't think they have anything to so with each other.

I don't know what bearing this whole incident has on Craig being prez, except that sometimes VP acted differently than at other times. Sometimes he was very sure of himself and confident, and other times he didn't seem to have a clue. Go figure.

I worked on staff at HQ in 1977: nd then went WOW the summer of "78: I went wow and applied for the way corps, because he told me I should. It had been about 6 months since I had spent any time with VP, when he came to my city. I was struck about the personal interest he took in me. I had talked with him on several occasions, and He was very sweet and fatherly to me, and never made an inappropriate move. Nothing close. He was wondeful to me, quite fatherly and kind. I adored him. Even though I had my doubts about going into the Way Corps, he encouraged me, and said he would make sure it was a worthwhile decision for my life. I believed him. In September of 1979, I was at Emproria for the opening of the 10th Way Corps. I was very excited to be there, and was sitting in the front row for the teaching. I was excited to see VP again, and had gone up to him and greeted him before the meeting. He told me to come to the teacher's room after the teaching, and we would visit. Something seemed wrong. VP was wobbly, and slurred his speech. He didn't seem to remember that we had a little rendevous which was ok, I didn't mind, but something didn't seem right. I was concerned about his health, and went to the corps coordinator, and expressed my concern. Linda McDuffie assuered me that VP was ok, and just feeling very tired. I didn't believe her entirely, and thought perhaps he had suffered some kind of stroke or something. I really thought something was bad wrong with him. Later I was told, when I wouldn't let up on it, that he had been drinking and perhaps had had a little too much. I was flabbergasted. I couldn't believe that VP would show up drunk for the opening of corps night. To this day, I don't know what the truth is. The next time I talked with him, which was only a couple of weeks later, all was forgotten. He seemed lucid and fine and his normal self. I guess I've always wondered if he was drinking that night, or struggling with health issues. It was hard to tell with him. Sometimes he seemed ok, and other times, he didn't. I still don't know what to think, really. sometimes he knew who I was, and we sat and talked, and other times, he treated me sortof like a servant? like I was part of the furniture. Hmmm..... I guess I'm wondering how "with it" he was with others. Sometimes he seemed to be really involved in what was happening......other times he seemed indifferent, like he wanted somedbody else to deal with it all. Just my impressions...........

How's come when I get a private message, I can't see what I sent in reply? People's messages to me are saved, but what I write back, I can't find. Help!

Hmmm, yeah. Like the hits still kept coming.....til the corps wedding. <_<

Oh and I have to add, Craig had been coming on to me and my girlfriend i(no I'm not a lesbian, I mean my friend) n a really big way, during the meetings. He invited us to his room, made up excuses for us to help him with stuff, so that we were sorta at his disposal, and not part of the regular corps regime. It made me uncomfortable, as it did my girlfriend, We went to Pat Lynn, who ended it. Sorta. Long story, but it was a very strange time.... :blink:

Ohmigosh, I agree with Sunesis, all this crap was a long time ago.... I was a corps nobody who worked the back room and head table for years, and really paid not too much attention to the goings on. :unsure: I worked the leaders' meetings at Emporia in 82 before the whole change of the presidency thing came down, and all I can say is, alot of people were containeded. <_< That's the best way I know how to put it, and it's really no surprise that things feel apart shortly thereafter. If I had a better memory or cared more, I guess I'd have more to say. But I don't. :blink:

Wait, stop, hold it. Denny's book has nothing to do with homosexuality. It was total fiction about a blind guy, as peruser said. I have a copy, but I don't want to part with it. :D

Southern Gentleman Thank you for your sentiments. You are obviously very kind hearted and I hope you feel welcome here. Many of us ex-wayfers feel the same way you do, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for expressing yourslef and sharing your experiences. More love to you, dear.

I personally don't "operate" anymore. I just am. I am a living being who is doing her best to just be. I no longer "operate principles" to get ahead in life. I think life is full of relatioships, whether personal, professional, indifferent, whatever. I take full responsibility for who I am or who I'm not, and have totally exculpated my life of all issues associated with "operating principles." B)

Dear Hopefull I wish I could offer some words of comfort, maybe a hug or two or three....you've been through alot, yet always stayed true to yourself through it all. God bless you now and always, and know that you have friends you haven't even met yet.

Wayfer Not I hate to burst your bubble. Rhoda was wonderful. I knew her and Reuben. The rumour mill has it that she and VP were an item at one time. I hate to repeat this gossip , except that it might have some bearing on the present situation. Don't ask me how I know or remember, but it seems I heard at one time that she and VP had a nice little affair going, and she ended up with Reuben????? I feel dirty even repeating this stuff, but it was "common knowledge" at one time at HQ. God forgive them, and me. I always dismissed this stuff as bs and gossiip. Now I'm not so sure.........

Albert Cliffe was just one of many authors who were part of the "New Thought" movement. Heck yeah, VP was a product of that philisophical train of thought. He tried to synthesize the essence of "New Thought" with Christianity. He wasn't the first to do so, of course, but just followed the herd. Many of the "greats" of the movement are name with wchich any ex-Way corps person is familiar... Glenn Clarke, Ella Wheeler Wilcox, Emmet Fox, Ralph Waldo Emerson (sorta) etc. VP followed the movement, and was very interested in the "Christianization" of it. This fact is very obvious after a minimal google on the topic. My first year in the corps, a bunch of us visited the Unity HQ in KC. What was that all about?

Albert Cliffe was one of the speakers invited by the club, the name escapes me, that VPW had going in Van Wert. VP was very impressed with him and invited him to speak on more than one occasion. Don't ask me how I remember this. :unsure:

Seeing as how I live just north of Houston, I'm getting my hurricane supplies together. We're about 90 miles from the coast, so we won't be evacuated. We won't be affected by the storm surge. But if it rains a ton, we could flood. And we are surrounded by lotza trees that probably will come down. We're prepared for the power to be out for a while. Sheesh. Snow storms I'm used to, (having lived in the frozen north) but this is abit scarier.

To set the record straight, I have never "promoted" Momentous either publicly or privately. I had/have serious reservations about doing so. Mainly because of the mentality mentioned on this thread, that participation is somehow a badge of some sort. I can't stand the "one size fits all" mentality of our former cult. My reason for posting my experiences is to add some sort of balance to the discussion, if that's possible. I was never yelled at during the training. I didn't yell at anyone else. I didn't reveal any "secret sins" either, mine or anybody elses. I know people personally who had alot of difficulty with the experience and I don't fault them for that. But at the same time, I just don't see the training as being "abusive." It's not for everybody that's for sure. How different people react to it, and what they make of it is their own responsibility, as far as I can tell. I find it hard to believe that an emotionally healthy adult can go into the experience and come out with mental health issues, because of the training. Sorry, I don't buy it. I do believe that one could go into the training and things could surface that have been unresolved, and the participant was unaware of. Yeah, that has happened. Do I fault the participant for that? No. Do I fault the trainers for that? No. But I do think people who signed up for Momentous should have been better informed about what it's all about. Would I do it all over again? Probably not at this point in my life, but 11 years ago, I had my reasons. ;)--> And yeah, I did learn alot, and it did inspire me to make some changes in my life. But I don't think it's the only road I could have taken. It's just the one I chose at the time. It just gets my goat when I hear people who don't know anything about it talking about how "abusive" it is. Geeeze. I've seen real abuse, and Momentous is not it.

I was in the same Momentous Training as Steve L. and Bill B who has been one of the most outspoken exway critics of the training. I was in fact, Bill's "buddy" during the event. We literally held hands through the whole thing. I did not experience any "abuse," and didn't witness any either. Nothing close to that. It's not "boot camp" or "hazing" either. Those analagies don't fit for me. As I mentioned, the closest comparison I can make, is the weekend events in the Cursillo movement. Many of the exercises are based on experiential therapy, which is nothing new, and yeah, in some circles contraversial.

I suppose that's where the proponents of Momentous went wrong to start with. It was never meant to be a "one size fits all" answer to anything. Hence, the 'hold harmless" agreement, which is misunderstood beyond words. The whole thing was meant to be a vehicle for those seeking a deeper spirituality, that goes beyond just surviving, and yeah, recovering. Ok, what I'm saying is, if one has emotional issues that are unresolved, a mess can insue. ;)--> As in most things spiritual in nature, which of course includes the paycological, (because how else does one live out one's faith?) things can get a tad bit messy. Nobody likes that. Few of us want to deal with it. It's not like you have to be perfect to go there, but you do have to be willing to work through stuff that comes up. Hardly anybody wants to do that, in my experience. :)--> Especially if one get blind-sighted. So it becomes much easier to play the blame game, and say that the whole freaking deal is messed up, and forget trying to help anybody that might get it. I'm in no way disparaging those who dislike Momentous. I think they were ill-prepared for the experience, and probably didn't know what they signed up for. Ok, crucify me.

Yeah well, just speaking for myself, I never looked at the Momentous Training as any kind of a "pill." Having been involved in similiar stuff as a teen, in the Catholic church, I thought it was another retreat type thing, that sounded like Cursillo. Yeah, I was right. :)-->

Being an attendee of Momentous, I would love to be a part of the conversation. However, I am a total wuss type person, and can't stand arguing and barking. Seems to me, judgement has been passed, so I probably have nothing worthwhile to say. Seems a shame. That's why I left the cult. No room for a voice that's different from the crowd.

Good points about the fearing of God. It occurs to me that we all have gifts and talents etc. that we use to communicate who God is to others, and to help build that relationship. Maybe our perspective can differ according to our calling and abilities? Just wondering and thinking out loud.......

I don't know if I would rate Karl's book as excellent. I think I would give it a very interesting, though. :)--> A different perspective, yes. A typical way corps person's experience......I kinda doubt it. :D-->

Thanks for posting this, Wayfer Not. I think that my life was "saved" after leaving the way, by becoming a normal Christian who attends church. I'm not being flippant, I really mean it. Ever since I was a child, I had this hunger in me, to draw close to God. While in TWI, I think that desire was almost killed by all the rule and regs we had to follow. When I finally broke free of the box, I found my sancutary in others who had the same desire to know Him. A church is not made up of the building, or the rules and regs one is required to follow, or even "right doctrine." But pilgrims on the same path. Our relationships with others who have the same relationship with our Saviour, is my true haven. Sorry to be preachy, but there is so much more to "fellowship" than the way ever knew. :)-->

I read Karl's book when it first came out. My brother was a corps buddy of Karl's and told me I had to read it etc., etc. Jiminy Crickets! Ok, I was in the corps a few years ahead of Karl and company, and my experience is a million light years away from his. Dang. My conclusion is that I was way out of the loop. I actually thought that I was attending a Christian college and would get a bona fide degree out of the whole deal. Little did I (or my parents who paid for the whole dang thing) know.

Well said, my brother OUT. Geeze, nobody gives a rat's behind about being "doctrinally correct". (except of course, the cult members) Christians have been arguing for centuries about doctrine. What really matters, IMO is character and behaviour. :D-->