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Research Geek

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  1. My advice to those who have left is to do whatever it takes to get healed. Obviously, if you were involved in twi, you love God and want to be right. If you were like most people when you originally got involved you were dissatisfied with your prior religious organization, or if you weren't a believer yet, you were seeking a better life. Notwithstanding some of the hidden faults of twi at that time, something about how the Bible was presented or something about the people in the organization attracted you. (That is how most people decide to fellowship with any church regardless of what that church believes...) The fact that you have decided to leave implies that what originally attracted you to the organization has changed and/or that you have found out about something that displeases you now. twi has definitely changed from the way it was. In fact it has changed several times. It was one way before all the young people got involved, then when they came in the '70s it changed. Then later when it got big and it instituted its organizational structure, it changed again. Later after vpw died and when lcm's leadership was challenged it changed again and the "fog years" ensued. Many people left or were kicked out. Then lcm emerged from the fog and changed it again. Next, the lawsuits came to light and lcm was expelled. Little did lcm know, but rfr had been manipulating things behind the scenes and soon she put her stamp on the ministry. Next, twi realized that things had gone too far because people were leaving in droves, so they racheted rfr's changes back to a "kinder gentler" version and that is where they are now. Throughout this time people became dissatisfied with the way things were and if they weren't kicked out, they had a choice to either leave or try to change the organization from within. My point is that whatever the reasons that you left, don't blame God for it. He did not hurt or disappoint you, people did. You are still a precious child of God and you still have the calling that He called you to do. Those things transcend any organization of men. (And they cannot be taken away, nor does God change His mind about them.) Now that you are out, you are going to experience a lot of unexpected things. The familiarity of the fellowship will be gone, you may not have many friends and depending upon the circumstances of your leaving, you may have guilt or emotional issues to deal with. This is a very vulnerable time and some people don't get through it well. Many end up becoming bitter and looking back for the rest of their lives, allowing past events to control them. Don't try to go through this post-exit phase on your own. Don't isolate yourself. You need a friend. You need someone to talk to and help you sort everything out. It is good to re-evaluate things. It is good to check your motives. This time will be a real catharsis. Just hold fast to that which is good. But in the end, you should be better and stronger for it. God is still there and just like He helped Job, He can help you. So ask Him for help. All the "whosoevers" in the Bible still apply to you no matter what anyone else told you... God will help you. He can find you a friend to talk to. If you need time to think and not get involved with some other organization, that's OK. But it should not be permanent, because you still have a Godly calling and that ministry is directed towards other believers, so it functions best within a body of some kind. When it is time, God can show you where you belong. But to be really healed, you'll need to reach the same point that Job did and be able to genuinely pray for his "friends." If you can get through your catharsis whole, without being vengeful or bitter or calloused, and looking forward to new goals and not living your life controlled by the past and be able to forgive and genuinely pray for those people who hurt you, God will reward you double and you will regain what you lost. That is what is possible and God can get you back on the road to achieving it no matter what state you are in now. There is a lot you can pray for when you are praying for your "friends". For example, there are a whole lot of people in twi who know things are wrong and have decided to try to change it from within. In the Bible Eli was screwed up so bad that his sons were seducing the women who were coming to the gate for help. I Samuel 3 says that there was no open vision, that means there was no functioning minister who was teaching the real Word of God - they all were pushing something else... Yet even in the midst of all the vile, abusive and wrong things that were going on, God was able to rise up Samuel and eventually Samuel kicked butt and the evil ones got what was coming to them. (God will deal with those who have abused His people in time, and it always is thorough...) So maybe it would be a good thing to pray for those "Samuels", those "7000 who have not bowed their knee" to Baal or whatever other error the abusers have pushed. These reformers should try to do what God wants them to do. They will either succeed or be kicked out. But that is better than doing nothing because of fear... The goal is to emerge from all this still loving God and still wanting to do what is right. I pray that you get healed and that you will be able to live the rest of your life for Him.
  2. Hello, This is the Research Geek. I have not posted for a very long time, but I thought it appropriate to make a comment on this thread. Linda Z is correct. I was on the research team, but I did not work on the Aramaic project. Having read the entire thread, I must comment about the unfortunate firing of Joe Wise by lcm because he was "too academic". I have the highest respect for Joe and the rest of the Aramaic team who worked on the Aramaic reference books. The "too academic" really means that he and the rest would not compromise their academic standards to cowtow to the demands of the twi hierarchy that they not publish something contrary to that which was taught by twi. (For example, their conclusion regarding Eli, Eli lamana sabacthani does not coroborate Lamsa's Bible or what was taught in PFAL. They simply, honestly could not prove twi's position on that verse.) They were taught by the best in the field, Dr. Arthur Voobis, in Chicago. At the time, their work on the Aramaic NT was some of the best available. It is true that the books published are highly sought in the Academic community as reference books. It was really stupid that twi stopped printing them. It was a political decision, not a godly one... I do not know all the details but I would have no trouble believing that because twi stopped printing their Aramaic reference books probably was what prompted this other person that they are suing to try to fill the demand and publish his stuff. The Aramaic work published by twi was probably the greatest academic achievement of the entire existence of the twi ministry, outshining all their other books published, but because under lcm they really were not a "research ministry" as they claimed, they had no clue as to the real value of what their research team had produced.
  3. When I was in Northern NY coordinating College WOWs we had a person in our fellowship who was related to the Smith family out of which the mormon founder came. She told us that before he supposedly received this great vision he was the "black sheep" of the family - no one expected him to succeed at anything. Anyway, a couple of her relatives had his Bible amongst their possessions and when a couple of Mormon missionaries came to their door, they made the mistake of mentioning that they had it. Their home immediately became a Mormon "shrine" in the eyes of every missionary team in Eastern Canada and the NE US. Every team made it a point to stop by the house from then on and ask to look at that Bible.
  4. __________________________________________ A couple of corrections: I meant Mary and John Sommerville. Second, I was told that the person we are talking about is not Craig, but a member of CFF who has a goatee and wild unkeept, thin hair with a pudgy face. John Paul spoke to this person privately Friday night outside the funeral home and did not seem upset. ______________________________________________ Um, I'm trying not to laugh, but I wasn't there Friday night... I'm with Ted, if I look like LCM, maybe Elvis WAS there... I mean, if the idea wasn't so funny, that person risked offending BOTH lcm and me... I think lcm in all his health club glory would be offended if someone mistaked me for him. And if I was of a different temperament, I might be offended if someone mistaked him for me. And about the wildly unkempt hair comment - I left my mad professor look at home Saturday and came with more like my Clark Kent hairdo, missing the top portion of course, and white instead of black, but if they mistook me for lcm, maybe I could pass for Clark kent anyway ;-)
  5. As I was driving to the service, it suddenly occurred to me, "What will I do if XYZ is there, or ABC or even LCM?" I thought it through and decided that if any of my so called "enemies" decided to come, that it would have been a very courageous thing for them to do and would probably indicate their humility and desire to make peace. I even spoke to a few people at the service about this. A few months ago, I had started the thread "Are you ready for forgiveness", and got really smoked by a few. But I understand that it healed a number of people and that made it worth it. On Saturday, I was ready to do what Romans 12 says: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him, if he is thirsty, give him drink", and thereby warm him with love. I met a lot of people that I loved and respected who had been separated from me. They weren't "enemies" or "competitors" but brothers in Christ. What a great opportunity it was for people to come together again after being separated. After some of the memories with Mrs. Wierwille were related, I thought to myself, that if she were in the situation where "enemies" had come, she certainly would have asked herself, "What does the Word say?" and then she would have carried it out. I think that in almost every situation, there are optimum times that people can try to make peace. I think that in memory of Mrs. Wierwille, now is one of those times. I sat there at the memorial and was ready to do what the Word says and still am. Perhaps some of you think the same. Perhaps we can take some steps toward peace...
  6. The service was a great tribute to Mrs W. It was great to see the family and everyone else. I was there but I did not see LCM. Are you sure someone is not pulling our leg?
  7. Tomatoe/Avocato Salad 1 bunch of Romaine Lettuce washed & torn into 2 " pieces 1 bunch of Boston Lettuce washed & torn up 2 2 1/2 inch vine-ripened Tomatoes cut into small pieces 1 ripe Avocato cut into ½ inch cubes 1/2 cup diced Vidalia onion juice from ½ lemon 1 tsp Basil 1/4 cup Olive Oil 1/4 cup Balsamic Vinegar The key is the ripeness of the Avocato and the tomatoes. The Avacato must be soft. The tomatoes must be a good red color.
  8. Hi everyone... I don't post much here anymore, but when it comes to the top ten list, there is something already on the forum in the editorial section... http://www.greasespotcafe.com/editorial/top-ten-list.htm It appears in a somewhat rough form because of a few typos that did not get edited out in its HTML form. But the content is still OK and surprisingly still current. Jesus Christ's "sniff test" is still the best way to separate the wheat from the chaff. Look at the fruit. If the fruit is bad, then the whole tree is bad no matter what it looks like on the surface. And for those who think that they can better that organization by staying in it, good luck! Unless you have received "technicolor revelation" you might be wasting your time...
  9. When I was 12 years old, long before I got involved with twi, I was snooping in my father's photo lab/darkroom and I found some horrifying pictures. My father had a photo developing business before he started his TV show and apparently a soldier returning from WW2 asked him to develop some pictures which he had brought back from europe. I found out later that the army had decreed that all pictures taken at the death camps had to be turned over to them for evidence and that this solder had snuck them out. They gave me nightmares - the bodies stacked like firewood, the expressions on the gaunt faces, the starved skin-and-bones bodies... I knew damned well it happened. No one could tell me different.
  10. Isn't it true that many PR people are basically professional liars? Are they not by definition the epitome of a "company man or woman"? So then why should we expect R*co to be any different? The very fact that he has lasted so long in that position speaks volumes. He probably has a picture of Saddam's Information Minister on his office wall in the place where one would expect a picture of Jesus Christ...
  11. The Way Tree has become a monkey tree. To the monkeys at the top looking down all they see is the lower monkeys looking up at them with smiling faces. But the view upward from the monkeys at the bottom is very different. All they see are @$$ holes!
  12. I wonder.. What does rosie actually DO? How did she earn her position? Biblically, those who were genuine achieved their positions got there by exemplary deeds (i.e. the book of Judges) or were selected by those they replaced (assuming that it was a godly decision). I honestly don't see anything that qualifies her for the position, nor do I see her doing anything to keep the position. I mean, pulling strings behind the scenes and political manipulations is not a fruit of the spirit - it is actually one of the works of the flesh...
  13. The reason communion got to be so dead was that the format was legislated from the top. If every fellowship was truely self-governing, they could decide how they wanted to do it. The only limitation should be what is described in I Corithians. According to I Corinthians 11 there certainly should be some solemnity to the affair. It is supposed to be a "memory peg" to bring us back to a full realization of what Christ did for us. We once had a "flaming communion", but I'll never do that again... (My sweater caught on fire while reaching over the candles to get the bread...) We sure had a hot time at that one! :-)
  14. Sixth (sickth) Corps precious moment #1: At A Public Speaking Training meeting in the Sonlight Room of the campus center we were all to give a speech about something we were passionate or really angry about. We all took our turns, then one of the men began to speak and he was so into his incedent that he punched a hole in the drywall. Sixth (sickth) Corps precious moment #2: LCM got hacked off about people missing the 5:30 AM CO3 meetings, so he said that everyone would have to meet in the library one hour earlier at 4:30 AM the next day and if anyone missed the meeting everyone would have to meet one hour earlier the next day. One man, N*** Y***, was so afraid that he'd oversleep, he took his sleeping bag to the library and went to sleep that night on the floor. The next morning there was a SIT alert and the meeting location was changed to the chapel. When they counted noses, NY was absent! LCM was livid and declared that there would be a meeting at 3:30 AM the next morning. He later relented and the meeting became a formal dance. Many got dressed up and went. I stayed in bed... Sixth (sickth) Corps precious moment #3: LCM was complaining about people missing breakfast, so he mandated that everyone must come to breakfast. They counted noses the next day and discovered that J*** M*** was absent. A crew of husky men went and retrieved him out of bed and carried him into the Campus Center bundled up in his bedsheet. Rumor control maintains that he was not wearing anything under the bedsheet. The event was so funny that the head table relented and he was given breakfast at the head table. Sixth (sickth) Corps precious moment #4: It was a tradition to announce birthdays at lunch and to allow the birthday boy or girl to request what song they wanted sung. On the day in question there was a reporter from a newspaper present. The song requested by the birthday person, Mrs, R****, was Father Abraham. In this song everyone spazzes out and shakes their arms and legs. The next day there was an article about the W C of E in the paper with a picture of everyone spazzing out in the lunch room.
  15. Research Geek

    E-mail Scams

    A lot of this type of E-mail fraud is from South Africa or the former Soviet Union. Another common trick is to entice people to give up their social security number or bank account number. No bank or investment firm will ever send out an e-mail asking people to verify their account or any other excuse to get them to give their personal information. The latter activity is called "phishing". Find where to report E-mail fraud at http://www.elsop.com/wrc/complain.htm Report phishing at reportphishing@antiphishing.org
  16. twi isn't the only ministry which has used the term present truth to replace what the Word says. I recently found the term used by a proponent of "personal prophesy" i.e "christian" fortunetelling... http://www.storm-harvest.asn.au/listarticl...nalprophecy.txt
  17. True Radar... I was just speaking from the standpoint of him starting a splinter group implying that he'd have to get some ex-twi people involved. I just can't see many who are now out of twi wanting to affiliate with him. But if he wanted to start his own thing from scratch and do so without trying to attract ex-twi people, then yes he could try to do so like you mentioned re: Bakker and Sweiggart. However, he'd have to go back to his roots and not use the same approach he did in the 80s and 90s...
  18. Why? In two words: Waydale and Greasespot (the other similar sites too, maybe...) I wonder if he has "come to himself" like the prodigal son. But there is one unique difference between the prodigal son story and now - the internet - full of people who continually rub his nose in the shXt he did. In my opinion, having researched genuine ministries, of which once upon a time, he had one (I'm sure there will be those who nay-say), my response is "What a waste!" All the ability and training and potential now ineffective. What a waste! If he ever did have a Jeremiah 20:8,9 moment and wanted to speak again and serve again, he'd have a difficult road to travel. As I see it, the only way he could go would involve an open letter of apology sent to all the Greasespot-type websites. Without that he'd not be able to successfully rise up again. The same is true for any other believer who has fallen. The gifts and callings of God are without repentance - they still have them - period. If they take them back up off the shelf and weather the ineveitable difficultues in rising back up again, they can function again. However, the civil penalties are still something to deal with. If the laws of the land have been violated and the statute of limitations is still in effect, that will be another hurdle to surmount... So maybe he figures it's not worth it. I don't know. But his lesson is something that every minister needs to consider when they are tempted. Note: Billy Graham never met with a woman in private for counselling. There always was someone else in the room. Something to think about... and no three-some jokes...
  19. Dear Lifted Up, Forgiveness cannot be forced. If it were, it would lose its benefits. I'm sorry that I do not have all the answers. I just asked the questions. It is apparent that this subject truely is between the person and God. I do not know all the details of peoples' situations, but God does. And if they are not ready to forgive, then that's the way it is right now.
  20. Hi again, I'm sorry that my work schedule is clobbering me. I've had a string of 12 to 17 hour days. I took a look at this thead from a non-emotional, detached viewpoint and it actually was amusing to me in a way. The squabbling that has been recorded for everyone to see, to me seems to clearly expose that many really do need a dose of forgiveness and many really need to forgive as well. It really was a poignant question and I hope that it helped people realize where they were on the road to forgiveness, Just starting, near the end, mired down in the middle or on a detour to nowhere... Maybe we all really need the flack jackets as proposed early on... But I did not write the Bible. Human nature has not changed since the spring of 27 AD when Jesus said "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." Now legally, I know that we are not held to that rule for our forgiveness since Jesus died and rose again (I John 1:9), however since human nature did not change after Pentecost in 28 AD, I know that if it was expected pre-penetcost, it certainly is possible post-pentecost... So I ask, if this is so, should we realize that ultimately, after all the water had gone under the bridge, that we still should find a way to forgive? As we have seen so clearly exposed, forgiveness can be a difficult thing to give. Possibly, the most difficult things to give may also be the most valuable.
  21. Hello again, Wow, it looks like this topic has struck a lot of nerves. Maybe the time actually was right to broach the topic... Please indulge me a moment as I tell you about Ernie: Ernie had a lot of problems. He was an outcast and lived on the street and had to forage for food to survive, and was a pestilence to his neighborhood. He was sick, his hair was matted and flea bitten. People hated him and had actually shot him twice. His outlook on life had deteriorated into survival mode. He didn’t care what he had to do to survive. But deep inside Ernie was a heart of gold that no one had ever seen. Ernie was a cat. He was kind of special because he was a polydactyl, a Hemmingway cat with eight toes on each paw. He lived near Catcup’s parents’ house and survived on handouts in the neighborhood. Catcup rescued him and intended to help him find a real home. Capturing Ernie wasn’t difficult because he was so tired and hungry and sick. All that was needed was a can of food in a carrier, and then he was a captive. But then the problems started. Ernie was completely feral and detested being groomed and attended to by the vet. We finally brought him back to our house and he was so traumatized that he scratched everything up and whizzed over everything in his isolation room ruining the carpet and woodwork. He eventually bit and scratched Catcup terribly when she took him outside for fresh air and he ran away. Catcup had to let him go. She was heartbroken, because she had taken pity on this poor stray cat and had failed in her attempt to help him. Ernie vanished into the bushes, giving her an evil backward glance. We cleaned up the room and said, we’ll never try that again! A few days later we had a visitor at our door. It was Ernie and believe it or not he wanted to come back into the house. We had to make a decision. Were we going to allow him back into the house after all the damage he had done and the injuries he caused or turn him back out onto the street again? We decided to forgive him and in the next few weeks we found out how we could live together. Ernie did not want to be touched or worse yet, picked up. We had to let him go back outside when he wanted to go, and we coaxed him to come back inside at night. It took a few months, but Ernie finally did change. We basically loved him into loving us back and ultimately he let us pick him up and hold him. His bad attitude vanished and he became Catcup’s favorite cat. We took him back to the vet and found out that one of the reasons for his bad attitude was the chronic pain he was in with 5 abscessed teeth and two beebees still lodged in him. The teeth were removed, and his attitude became even more pleasant. He actually became affectionate, which is near impossible to expect out of a feral. (Most animal control officers put feral cats like him to sleep.) The moral of this story is that you never know what kind of pain another person may be in who is causing you problems. Forgiveness was the catalyst that made the road to Ernie’s transformation possible. Had there been none, no one would have ever seen Ernie’s heart of gold. He would have died within weeks, matted and parasite ridden in the gutter. As it was, we uncovered a beautiful cameo polydactyl cat with handsome apple-green eyes rimmed in black, who loved us fiercely and he lived with us for double his streetlife expectancy, giving us great pleasure. On the other hand, do you remember when Bill Clinton and his entourage were condemning conservative Christians for not forgiving Clinton when he demanded it? That is “Clintonesque” -- the offender demanding forgiveness when they aren’t really sorry for what they have done. Clinton said he did it simply because he could—much like LCM’s explanation for his own behavior. Forgiveness is a difficult thing to do but there can be benefits to both the forgiver and the offender. However these benefits can only be fully experienced under the right conditions. Sure the offender gets off the hook by the forgiver. In that particular case, that’s an immediate benefit to them. But if the offender is truly sorry for what they did, then they may be able to receive the ultimate benefit which is to heal the behavior in themselves that caused the problem in the first place. The forgiver also gets a benefit which can release some or all of their pain. But sometimes, people can carry the impact the evil offense caused them and dwell upon it in such a negative way that they continue to hurt themselves even more. This manifests itself in hair-trigger emotions, bitterness, withdrawal, and lashing out at others, among other things. There is some kind of balance involved. Forgiveness is not automatic. There may be appropriate times to withhold it. But life must go on, too. Bitterness shouldn’t be permanent, else we continue evil’s cueball effect against others and especially upon ourselves. The nature of evil is to continue to devour. Only good can overcome it. So who has to make the first step if good is to overcome evil? That is for each person to answer between themselves and God. There may be many other factors involved such as the nature of the injury, the severity of the offence, the former relationship of the parties involved, if the offender is repentant or not, if the offender is still alive, etc. These all affect the scenario. But regardless, the ultimate benefit to the forgiver can be healing and possibly even be a return to normal life as if the incident never happened. Yes, there are further circumstances where there have been physical injuries, and even death. So in some instances, restoration for the injured party is impossible. But healing is still available so that the forgiver can stop the cueball effect in themselves by refusing to prolong the effects the offender caused. So I ask, are you ready to forgive? I do not imply that if you don’t forgive that you should be condemned. As I said there are a lot of factors involved. Those things take time to work through, each situation and individual is different, and forgiveness can never be forced. It is a process between them and God as well as between the people involved. As clearly seen on this thread, some are ready to forgive, some are not. Some have forgiven and have seen benefits. Some may be ready to forgive and hopefully my simple question will catalyze the process so they can receive the healing benefits. That was my motivation, pure and simple.
  22. No, I wouldn't think of neglecting you all. I think that it is obvious to all that this subject has struck a nerve in a lot of people. As such it is a subject crying out for clarification. That is something that I gravitate to and it pains me that my work schedule has gone mad this week.
  23. Hi songremainsthesame, I'm not dodging you. I just have had a 15 hour, 17 hour and 14 hour workdays and I have to work at least 8 hours today, Sunday. Then I have family responsibilities like mow the lawn rake the leaves and clean out the garage. Then I have business responsibilities like do my billing before I forget the details. I hope you understand that I want to get back to this thread and put in my two cents. If I can make some time today, I'll get back on and post my responses.
  24. Hello again, I'm not neglecting you all. I just had two long work days in a row and today looks to be another one. As I said in my introduction I occasionally come here to test the wind. It looks like it has been pretty windy lately! So far we have seen before our eyes different positions on forgiveness. As to my first question, Are you ready to try some forgiveness, someone said that it implied that there will be a time that they are ready and then the next step that ultimately we should forgive. I hadn't considered that the question would insinuate that. But that is an interesting train of thought. I did not intend for the thread to turn into a squabble. I wanted to pose the main question and perhaps everyone's responses would help those who are about ready to do it to take that step and get the benefits that come with it. There are a lot of points that have been brought up so far and honestly, I have not had enough time so far to respond. If my work schedule loostens up a bit, I hope to be able to do that. Please forgive me for launching this discussion and not having enough time to moderate it.
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