Shifra

Highway, You wrote: "It was not a place for the mentally disturbed, but for those looking for physical or spiritual rejuvenation". That's hilarious! Yes, I know you are speaking of the property prior to TWI's polution, but I remembered all of my corps brothers and sisters and their kids, who came there looking for spiritual things, and ended up being mentally disturbed. And I'm sure most of the stories I heard about the nuns and the dead babies, etc, from when the place belonged to the Catholics ... were mostly urban folklore, but still pretty weird. Yep, the campus has some funky energy, for sure, left over from various bizarre enterprises. Glad to be far away these days.

I hate that place. To me, it's sorta like the Berlin Wall or Gettysburg or even the Twin Towers, where tourists might come to look and imagine some of the pain that took place there. I think this is the source of the "haunted" feeling that some of you have referred to. It's not really ghostly or spooky, but the sense of cruelty and hurt is undeniable present. It's a heaviness and darkness, that all the window-washing and toilet-scrubbing that we did ... couldn't eradicate. This is probably why the property keeps changing hands so rapidly, don't you think?

One more memory ... Prom night. My boy, a high school junior, had a date with a very nice girl from town, for the Prom. But here's how it had to be: SHE paid for his tux rental. SHE drove HER car to pick him up at the Way College campus. SHE bought the flowers - for herself as well as for him. SHE paid for dinner. And HE had to be back at the campus by midnight. Now, THAT is a really weird prom night. No wonder the community viewed Way kids as kooks.

As a parent, looking back, I deeply regret having put my kids through the Family Corps training. Besides exposing them to ridiculous doctrine and the abuses (both physical and verbal) of our peers, there were incidents of actual neglect that still bother me when I think of them. In the early 90's, Family Corps adults basically worked all day, had evening classes, and often worked later into the night, doing Bless Patrol (later called "Vigilance Patrol") or any of a number of other meaningless tasks. One year we hosted something like seven Advanced Classes, which involved outrageous hours of set-up and take-down, and through it all, our children were shuffled from one "Rover" to another. These "Rovers" were not all responsible people, and even the dedicated ones were exhausted and overworked. Safely tending to twenty or more kids at a time was not really possible. The poor kids would act up, having not been with their parents for days, and the wooden spoon was the accepted remedy for all behavior problems. Many times, there would be soccer games or school plays or other events that we parents could not attend, even though our kids were usually allowed to do these extracurricular school activities. That is ... of course ... if they had WRITTEN permission from the Children's Activities Director, as well as the Family Corps Director, THREE DAYS IN ADVANCE !!! Do you guys remember this? When I think of how kids in the normal world enjoy spontaneous trips to the Dairy Queen, or a weekend slumber party that might have been arranged on Thursday afternoon, I realize how ripped off the Corps kids were. Transitioning back and forth between the friendships they had in Public School and the absurdity of life at the Way College campus ... must have been awful for these youngsters. And their parents - including myself - were rarely available to help them process any of it. I remember one night, praying with my fourth-grader. It was a few minutes after the designated bed-time for his age group, and the "Rover" on duty barged into my boy's room and interrupted our prayer, confronting me for violating the curfew, and wouldn't leave the room until I did. I remember another time when one of my sons, age 12, had a tooth removed by the dentist, and asked to miss fellowship that night because he was in pain. They said he could stay in his room, but couldn't come out for anything. Late that night I checked on him, and discovered blood all over his bedding. He knew he had been bleeding too much, but was afraid to come out of his room to ask for help. No big deal, right? But when this was the norm, the day-to-day way of life that children grew up in, it still upsets me that I condoned this for my own kids.

You know you're out of THE cult when you set your clocks at the real time instead of ten minutes early. And you don't have to lie when you're late to a meeting or even to church.

Wow! Bramble! You should teach a class on how to get un-brainwashed! I remember spending a day with you after a tornado in that horrible flat city we lived in. You and your family were checking on all of your neighbors to make sure they were OK, and assisting them with pulling fallen trees from their yards and driveways. What a day that was! And then the Limb Coordinator showed up, and chewed you out for not keeping your place decent and in order. Amazing. And now you have apparently unloaded all of that bullsh!t and moved on to a balanced and sensible life. Y'know ... unless you've been there ... in that state of total acceptance of all the craziness of TWI ... you have no idea what a long strange trip it is back to reality. Getting un-brainwashed is sorta like surviving cancer or becoming un-addicted to meth. Just short of a miracle. Waytogo, Bramble!

Rascal, It wasn't meant to be funny. Shoot, now I'm embarrassed. Shifra.

The customized version of the Brainwashing Quiz: 1. When the Bible is being discussed among your (non-TWI) friends, do you continue to believe that you know more than anyone else about the subject? 2. Do you still think that people who believe in the Trinity are "idolatrous" and therefore have forfeited their chances for eternal life? How about their "crowns in heaven"? 3. Do you hang on to the idea that all negative things come from the devil? 4. Do you avoid wearing a cross around your neck or having one as a wall decoration in your home? 5. Is your first reaction to a difficult situation to speak in tongues - silently, in your mind - rather than to immediately pursue a solution to the problem? 6. Do you think environmentalists are nature-worshippers? 7. Do you use a wooden spoon as a "rod of correction" on your child? 8. When you experience failure, do you begin to re-trace your recent past in order to identify where you "blew it" spiritually? 9. When considering whether an idea or event is valid, is the Bible your ultimate reference point for truth? 10. If you encounter a mentally ill person, does you "diagnosis" of that person include the name of a devil spirit? 11. When you pray, does each sentence of the prayer begin with ... "Thank you father"? 12. Do you believe that when a Christian husband and wife disagree, the wife should submit? 13. When someone is very very very successful at what they do, do you consider that this might be because of an affiliation with the Adversary? 14. Do you find yourself rejecting any perspectives from other religions? 15. Do you believe that babies are not alive until they take their first breath? 16. Does it still matter to you how many were crucified with Christ? 17. Is your life patterned more after the Epistles than the Gospels? Add up your "yes"s and "no"s. If you have more "yes" answers than "no" answers, you are still brainwashed, and TWI still has a grip on you.

T-Bone - What you wrote was wonderful !! I have heard it said that ... "There's a difference between being CENTERED and being SELF-CENTERED". And you are right, this is a very difficult thing to re-learn after TWI. Shifra.

WG, I think your boy and many others really do stand a chance, because they started out in a decent loving home BEFORE getting so deeply involved in TWI. I find hope in that verse, "Train a child up in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it". Well, your son and my kids and a lot of others were "blessed" (gag) ... I mean "Lucky" ... enough to have had a solid foundation BEFORE the so-called foundational teachings of the Way. I worry for the others who were born into the Way. I worry for the young families who are just now having babies in this cult. These little ones are the people who don't have any original reference point of life outside of TWI. So, even if their parents recognize the hypocrisy and devilish ways that TWI operates, and even if these parents have decided to simply wait for better leadership or whatever, THEIR CHILDREN ARE BEING EXPOSED TO A DEADLY DISEASE, AND THERE IS NO VACCINE. If you are in TWI with kids, forget the polio shots and the tetanus immunizations. Your child is in far more danger just sitting in fellowship or taking PFAL. It's up to you parents to make up your minds, like WG and her husband did, to love your kids more than you love the Way International, to train them up in the way (not the Way). God entrusted you with a child. Don't let Him down.

Nice thread! I tried a lot of things to rediscover myself after TWI. A lot of it didn't work; for example going to church didn't work, and attempting to organize other ex-way folks into a fellowship didn't work either. Here are some things that actually DID help me, although I'm still working on it: 1. Throw away the Bible you used in TWI. Get a different translation, and definitely do not copy your old notes into your new Bible. 2. Get rid of those old TWI books. E-bay is a good way to do this, and make money at the same time. Dump the Way Mags, the name tags, the jargon, and maybe even the dental floss. 3. Change the way you pray. Stop "thanking" God for everything you want. Instead just ask Him, including asking Him for help in recovering from the cult. In other words, don't say, "Thank you Father for giving me enough money to pay my bills". Just say, "God help me get my bills paid please". It's amazing how when you talk to God in a normal genuine way, it somehow makes you normal and genuine in the process. 4. Quite by accident, I began investigating my Family Tree. Oh how wonderful !! This was fun, and at the same time gave me a fresh and deep sense of who I am, and where I came from. 5. Try to remember what made you happy, really happy, before the days of TWI. Then do this thing. 6. Get professional help. This is not an insult. Before you select a therapist, ask them on the phone if they have ever worked with ex-cult members. If not, they might be able to make a good referral. Be sure to get someone who has this experience. At this point in my life, I am not at all embarrassed to reveal that I see a therapist regularly. In fact, I'm proud of it.

Here in Montana, "Hupotasso" is a rope trick performed by cowboys at the rodeo each summer.

Belle, The FIRST time we got kicked out of Family Corps training (we got kicked out three times - long story), it was right after LCM had taught that OT parents were expected to stone their disobedient children ... and very shortly after this teaching, I witnessed the Director of Children's Activities giving the same teaching, in a very angry voice, to a group of young children at Rome City, Mini-Corps, as they were called. These kids began crying and were so terrified. Now, if a kid anywhere else in the world, has a bad experience with the baby-sitter, at least they know that eventually Mom or Dad will come and rescue them. In this case, the kids were very afraid of Mr. HuffandPuffman, but even more afraid when their parents arrived to pick them up from the class. When my husband and I reported it, we promptly got the boot. We were told that if our believing was that Mr. H was damaging our children, then in fact this would probably happen - which would be our fault, not his - AND !!! the Family Corps director told us he could not have this on HIS conscience !!! Huh? Also, we actually did do what you described - we kicked out one of our sons when he was a senior in high school, at the order of our Limb Coordinator. This kid slept in his car, and ate out of dumpsters, as he finished high school, and we didn't see him hardly at all until I broke all the rules and attended his graduation. This is horrible !! And it's NOT the worst thing that happened to him in TWI either. Do I feel guilty? Well, what do you think? Sir Guess, my dear friend, While I agree that TWI shoved the idea of superiority / prevailing / victory down the throats of the young people (and all of us) in terms of "our" knowledge of the Word etc being far above everyone else's ... at the same time, they destroyed any sense of self-worth that the kids might have had. In the Family Corps the adults USED the children to practice their confrontation styles on. Kids talked about suicide frequently, they ran away in droves, and the ones with any spunk left in them survived only with the goal of escaping as soon as they were grown up. Outside of the Corps training, I observed the same thing happening in the local fellowships - adults bullying kids as a sort of rehearsal for later bullying adult believers. Did the parents love their children? Of course, but they feared for the whole family's well-being if they didn't toe the line. How can anyone even question whether TWI is/was a cult?

Larry, Thanks for re-printing a piece of your departure letter. That took quite a bit of courage. One thing that stood out as I read that letter was the part where you said that if it was just you who would be affected by staying in TWI, then you'd stay, but since others would also be affected by you staying, you had to leave. Wow. This is a perfect example of the self-sacrifice mindset that I referred to in the "Agape" thread a few weeks ago. Point is ... we gotta take care of ourselves first, so we can take care of others. TWI convinced us that we were the low man on the totem pole. The Way Tree was a method of visualizing this, so that the vast majority of us considered ourselves to be unimportant and disposable "leaves" on the tree, while the twig leaders and branch leaders and limb leaders and so on were so very very important. Well, I'm glad you got out, for whatever reason. P.S. To consider that Jesus was present, rather than absent, would be to affirm life after death, or maybe even that Jesus was God, so VPW came up with the "absent Christ" bullsh!t to validate his other doctrines, as well as to promote the supremecy of the "Word" over anything else. And as was stated earlier, the "Word" equaled VPW's personal ... word.

This is a thread for people who were exposed to TWI throughout their formative years ... BUT IT'S ALSO FOR PARENTS LIKE MYSELF WHO FED TWI DOCTRINE TO OUR CHILDREN AND NOW WISH WE HADN'T. I have four kids. When we got involved in TWI, their ages were 14, 11, 8, and 2. The results of their exposure to this toxin in early childhood seems to have resulted in a variety of long-term effects - some severe, some not so severe, some actually quite positive. I believe that this wide spectrum of effects is possibly related to the age at which they were introduced to TWI and all of its poisonous influences. Of course, they are each very individual people, which accounts for the differences in their responses as well. They are now all adults. Is it too late for me undo the damage? Please don't tell me to give it to God. This goes without saying. But is there more? For the most part, I am thankful that prior to our participation in TWI, my kids grew up in a down-to-earth happy home filled with rock-n-roll, lots of animals, honest prayer and a lifestyle of free spirit. More and more, I see this "foundation" coming to the surface in their adult lives, but I know they have had to fight through a lot of programming (and all of its dangerous guidance) in order to re-discover what God wants for them. I am thinking a lot about this. And I want to add ... If you are parents, and if you are in TWI, please sit down and talk this out between yourselves - without "leadership" input. How will TWI define your child's thoughts and choices? Is this the future you want for your kids? While you yourself may be able to tolerate the malfunctions and distortions and perversions of TWI, consider this fact - your child sees it as normal, acceptable, and true. Let's open this up for questions, advice, experiences, comments. I love you guys!

Two comments: I always thought the cliche "in depth spiritual perception" was a bit redundant. I mean ... if it's spiritual, then isn't it by sheer logic also in depth? How about "shallow spiritual perception"? Like ... how could it be spiritual if it was shallow? Oh well. Also, in reading this thread, I had to remember a road trip I took with a long-time Corps lady. You know - one of those females who forged right up the TWI ladder, secretly in search of a man, but never finding one who could match her "in depth spiritual perception"? Anyhow, we were driving through the mountains of Utah, on our way to Vegas, and she was confronting me constantly about my driving skills in such a dangerous place. I asked her what she meant by "dangerous", since I live in a mountainous region myself, and considered this kind of area much safer than the big cities. She answered by telling me to just look around at the rugged terrain and the wilderness, and use my discernment abilities, because surely I would realize that the devil was responsible for such a CHAOTIC design to this part of the earth. Gee, and I thought it was ... beautiful. Of course Las Vegas was holy ground, because believers lived there. Yikes! Whatever.

Holy Socks! Yes, Socks, your words are holy. Heehee! So, given what you just posted, do you think there could be a misguided form of love, which could bring harm to the love-r? I think THIS is what has happened to many people who thought - or still think - that they are carrying out Paul's directives regarding Agape. It's like ... love ... no matter what. If they rip you off, love them anyhow. If they damage other people, love them anyhow. And all the while, we are supposed to be confronting them with the Word, because that's the loving thing to do. Anyhow, thanks for what your wrote.

It's amusing how silly we became as part of TWI, especially when it came to basing ALL of reality on what is in the Bible. Now, while this may be a reasonable point of reference for those people who know and / or believe the Bible, it is just plain stupid to present concepts as the absolute truth ... to outsiders who are not familiar with scripture, or who don't believe. Example: You are assigned to go witnessing at the local mall. ("Assigned", because nobody would actually do this voluntarily). You approach a woman with a bratty kid, who is screaming and fighting and causing a scene. You say to the woman, "Excuse me mam, but would you like to know what the Bible says about bratty kids?" She looks at you as though you were psychotic, grabs her child, and walks away. You follow her and continue, "The Bible tells us that if we spare the rod, we will spoil the child". The woman keeps walking, but a little faster now. Being a determined Way-fer, you now step in front of her, causing her to stop. The kid clings to his mother in fright of this nutty stranger. She tells you she is Presbyterian, and has no intention of beating her child with a rod. Now your self-righteousness kicks in, and you "confront her with the word", because after all, this is your responsibility, right? You angrily flip to Ephesians and your voice is raised in indignation. That's when the woman's husband shows up and breaks your nose. This is so absurd. The Word is essentially a common-sense yet spiritual guidebook. When presented in this way, it MIGHT be received. When presented as a weapon or a means to insult another of God's kids, then the written Word, itself, is being abused. Agape indeed.

Gee, you guys, I had to turn that video off. Seriously, I couldn't handle seeing his face or hearing his voice.

What exactly are they prevailing over? Here are the only things I could think of: TWI prevails over all others in the category of toilet cleaning and teeth flossing. TWI prevails as the church with the highest percentage of window washers in its membership. TWI prevails as spewing more profanity from the pulpit than any other denomination. TWI prevails over its members with an iron fist, or sometimes with a wooden spoon, depending upon member's age. Seriously, if it's the Word which they say is "prevailing", please show me where this is occurring. Even LCM, who invented all the Prevailing jargon, said the Word had been spread throughout the world (hence the closing of the WOW program), and that the present-day task was to confront the world with the Word. So ... um ... if the Word prevails, who needs to be confronted? How about the "Decade of Decadence in the Poisoned Land of the Prevailing Pervert"?

Unless a TWI believer has been totally blinded - which happens, for sure - at some point through the progressive indoctrination, most folks will have some doubts about this group. Some, like myself, will consciously overlook the bad stuff in exchange for the good stuff ... and certainly there is still a little bit of good in TWI (very little). However, over the course of time, a lot of people gradually move up the ladder from PFAL to some leadership position, and on that journey they just can't avoid becoming more and more aware of how big the bad stuff really is. Simultaneously, they become more and more locked into the system, ie family expectations, friendships, even employment. And if you are one of the most un-lucky, in the Corps, you are indeed STUCK. Given this all-too-familiar scenario, my question is this: When does a Way person lose his or her own accountability? Despite the goodness that resides in the hearts of many TWI believers, TWI leadership teaches the Word with a goal of manipulating their own followers, they split families, they abuse individuals, and they continue to rake in the money called "Abundant Sharing". Even they know that what they are doing is horrible, and that they are accountable. But apparently the glory they get from the believers is worth their own uncomfortable conscience - if they still have a conscience. But what about me? If I am part of TWI, am I guilty by association? Does God hold me accountable? Well, there are definitely groups of TWI people whom we can rule out of this accountability question. Obviously, the young kids. Maybe even the elderly, who have been soaked to the bone with TWI doctrine and no longer have the mentation to sort through it. And what about those healthy adults who sincerely gave up their education and careers to "serve" within the "household"? From experience, I can tell you this: that if your are employed by TWI, or if you are part of some program like Corps training or the Disciple program, it is nearly impossible to get out of TWI, because you have burned all your bridges back to any previous friends or employees, and you own nothing but your clothes and your collection of Way books. It's especially hard to decide to go out on your own if you have children whom you must feed and shelter - when in reality TWI is doing the feeding and sheltering. Impossible? No. Difficult? Yes, beyond all imagination. But what about everybody else in TWI? Those who continue to pay their tithe, and continue to attend fellowships, and who actually see the wrong being done. But they stay. There are those who say they stay, so they can change things from the inside. I remember when our limb coordinators got re-assigned to work at HQ. They obeyed, but because they were very close with my family, they later shared their misery in their new positions. They recognized the hypocrisy and the manipulative nature of the top leadership. Still, they said they would not quit, because their presence might make a difference and their prayers were strong enough to change how TWI was then operating. What happened to them? Well, they didn't change a thing; TWI changed them. Now they are dull little robots, just like so many others. Personal accountability is a big deal to God. Sure, He forgives - enormously. But again, speaking from my own experience, I stayed way too long, even though I knew it was wrong. Looking back, I now claim my own accountability for the "sins" of the group. This is so important. I brought people into TWI, some who are still there. I condemned others as I was taught by TWI. I denied the mean-ness that I witnessed coming from leadership, and pretended to respect them, even though they were hurting my brothers and sisters in Christ. For all of this I am ashamed. The good news is that now that I'm no longer a part of it, I can ask forgiveness and know for sure that God forgives me. Whadayathink?

Java Jane, You and your husband were very wise to have this discussion. Not many couples as straight-forward as that. Of course, TWI's response would be that they are not an "organization". They have to be your top priority, because they ARE God.

Bramble... Great definition of Agape. And yes, you can think for yourself, and speak for yourself, without having to qualify it by quoting chapter and verse. Amazing, isn't it?

Jean, that was great! Thanks.

Here's a few tales from Family Corps Training. (Yes, Watered Garden, I survived F20 too. Remember me?) Tale #1 Bus Stop Fellowship was a seven-minute mandatory daily gathering of the kids at the Indiana Campus, as they waited for the school bus. There was a prayer, a song, and a short teaching. The adults took turns coordinating this week-by-week. One particular week, when we had this assignment, I found myself writing the teachings for my husband, because he had been over-scheduled with chicken-butchering, bless patrol, and other absurd duties, and literaly had not slept for days. He taught the teachings that I wrote for him, and then I taught other teachings that I wrote for myself. At the end of the week, MY teachings were harshly criticized, and I was told to go to my husband and ask him to show me how to put together a quality teaching, because HIS teachings were so good. Tale #2 Our third child, then in high school, hated Family Corps and gradually became a very rebellious young man while we were in residence. I seriously don't think this would have happened, except that the rules and regs for teens were so outrageously strict there. My husband and I were called into Mosquito's office, where he boiled the whole situation down to one absolute truth: "If I, the wife, were obedient to my husband, then all of our children would be obedient to TWI leadership". My son, his dad, the Corps ... not one of these entities were to blame. Just me. Tale #3 In one of those dreadful show-downs between leadership and a married couple at Gunnison, TWI wanted to keep the wife and kick out the husband. We knew this young couple, very newly married, very much in love. They had worked briefly at Rome City, and had won our hearts. This dynamic of splitting spouses was common then. This couple was not mature enough to fight the monsters, and so the husband was sent on his way, marked and avoided. A few years later, he met up with some other people who had also been kicked out. They told him they were so sorry for the loss of his wife. At first he thought they were referring to the divorce. But no, they were referring to her fatal accident. He still loved this woman deeply. And nobody had ever made contact to let him know she had died shortly after he left. He will never be the same. It is beyond me why people still cling to this outfit. I'm so thankful to not in any way be associated with such despicable people. To take something as perfect and beautiful as marriage and poison it like this ... it's unforgivable.