Shifra

I'm trying to remember how this was presented in TWI ... or was it just a casual discussion among friends on the Indiana Campus? Clearly we were taught that Jesus came to complete the law, so we wouldn't have to be bound up with it any more. But there was more background to this. Something about how God's original intent was that we would not have rules and regs. And how the people themselves INSISTED on having laws, and that God initially resisted the requests, but then granted their wishes, by issuing the ten commandments, etc. Later, it got so screwed up that God had to send Jesus to put things back like the original plan. I'm simplifying this, because it's all so fuzzy in my memory. But I'd like to remember it clearly. Anyone else out there recall this stuff? Chapter and verse would be good. It's the O.T. info I'm looking for. Thanks.

OldSkool Here's the problem. You are addressing the "innies" as though they were practiced in the use of Logic. You explain to them that there are many many people, all over the world, who are sharing the same eye-witness accounts of what went on in the Way. And then you even present it in the context of a Bible verse, which should make it completely acceptable to any good Wayfer. Brilliant! But ... Neither Logic nor Scripture will be processed by any Way Believer, unless their "leadership" tells them that the information is true. Any doubts, any speculation, any consideration of an outsider's view - is grounds for condemnation, from the leaders, the peers, and even from one's self. Don't you remember? A person's mind is no longer their own in the Way International. Example: In Family Corps Training, we were not allowed to read newspapers, watch TV, or listen to the radio. It was also very difficult to get permission to leave the campus. Yet when Election Day rolled around, we were all confronted (with much profanity) for not voting, and also for not knowing which candidates we should vote for. Logic? Zero. But we all believed the leadership, and despised ourselves for being so irresponsible. Geeeeeez.

The first belief that I had to get rid of ... was that God thought I was a "self-willed bitch". The director of the Family Corps told me he had heard this from God by way of a revelation. When I think of any bad thing that's happened in my life, I can also remember counting on God for a solution. But when I believed that God Himself had rejected me, there was no place to go for comfort. Being dropped from Corps Training, along with my family, nearly all of my focus HAD TO be on mere survival. We had no home, no money, no jobs. The survival mode kept my brain too busy to concentrate on God's rejection of me. I suppose this was a good thing. When we finally got our feet back on the ground, I realized that the so-called revelation was just a crock.

Update to January 2010. It's Pat, or "Shifra" around these parts. shifra.moon@gmail.com

Jiminy Crickets! Thanks, Fiddlepicker. And Thomas. Two below zero and falling temps tonight. 12 inches of snow last night. But I see there are some very warm hearts on Greasespot. I would say "You're the best!". But I won't. -Luv you guys.

Fiddlepicker, I'm having trouble finding the list of names in the online Companion Bible appendix. Appendix #98 shows some names that are used in the New Testament, but it's not a comprehensive list. And Tommy Loy, do you have that book? If so, could you post those seven names? And totally off the subject, are any of the rest of you freezing you tails off tonight? It's cold in Montana!

Yes, it's the list with El Shaddai in it. I think it's on the list that Fiddle Picker has posted. I'll go there. And by the way, I like the list posted by Brainfixed too. Thanks, guys.

I've lost, tossed and ceremonially burned most of my Way Ministry stuff. Somewhere in the ashes was the long list of the "Names of God". Although random clergymen have claimed to be the author of that list, in fact, we lowly Corps-in-Residence were the true research department in the "Names of God" project. Anyhow, I'd like to retrieve it if possible. If anyone out there has it, could you post it here, please? Thanks!

Hi Jeff and Roy I think it's interesting that this topic is being discussed, because in TWI, there was no opportunity to debate ... anything! Nobody learned how to genuinely respect anyone else's opinion - or to even have an opinion of our own; instead we were REQUIRED to echo anything and everything that the "leadership" told us. On top of that, we all learned very quickly to imitate the righteous indignation of that leadership, whenever we were exposed to any non-Way thinking, especially ideas developed or put forth by other church groups. This made it really hard for a lot of us when we left the Way, because even though we no longer accepted TWI doctrine, we were so absolutely saturated with it (including the rejection of outside ideas), that it became difficult to relate to the real world. Gradually, most of us have learned to put such narrow-mindedness behind us, and move forward to a place of learning from others and actually being respectful to differing opinions. I love the stuff you write, Roy. 'Haven't been around GS for awhile, but maybe I'll stop by more often again. -Shifra.

... when you shun your dearest friends (or closest family), because some idiot guru tells you to.

Ham is right. In Corps training there was a good man who was essentially held hostage until plane tickets could be purchased to send him and his family back to Europe. I knew this family well, as they were in training with my family at the Indian Campus. They were banished to their rooms until travel arrangements were in place, and the rest of us (who really loved these folks) were ordered to leave them alone. As for dietary restrictions, well, we weren't allowed to use black pepper - Oh, the sin of it! - or to drink coffee with our meals. Nothing with onions was ever cooked or served when Martindale was visiting the campus, because he didn't like the smell. And as a "back-room girl", I was expected to remember each and every leader's preferences for beverages, condiments on their sandwiches, everything. If I had to actually ask them for this information, I was promptly reprimanded by my supervisor. Weird how FOOD becomes such a point of control. One big difference from the Arkansas group is that the Way's clergy weren't interested in little girls. No. They were more interested in married women.

Hi Garden Girl! Just thought I'd check in to the Cafe for awhile. Nice to see that you're still fighting the forces of evil ... the Way, that is.

Isn't it cool that nobody really knows what heaven is like? God has certain things that he keeps as surprises for us. That's as it should be. We just get to keep guessing until we see the real thing! Sorta like little kids on Christmas Eve. Fun, huh?

You may be a Way Ministry tool if you are afraid to sign in to Greasespot as anything other than a "guest". Living in fear is really not what God had in mind.

What do you call a dead tuna and a prostitute salmon? "Bloaty and the Ho Fish".

Temple Lady ... It's good the way you are looking at both sides - freedom of religion and protection of the innocent, while at the same time, legitimate enforcement of relevant law. I like the way you think. One piece of this story that bewilders me is something I read on the CNN website. It said that a lot of kids under the age of six had been transplanted to the YFZ Ranch, after being removed from another similar ranch a few years ago. These children were taken from their own families - by the leaders of the church - and put into families on this new ranch. The new YFZ Ranch was evidently started in an attempt to evade investigations happening in other states, and so they decided to re-locate the "go forth and multiply" thing where there wasn't so much publicity - at least until now. That's why a lot of these little ones don't know who their bio parents are. I think this is very bizarre - that the church would rearrange individual families like furniture, and that the families themselves would allow it. So, whether or not the "informant" was real, the interventions by the state really do have some merit in my opinion. What do you think? Also, putting aside constitutional law, I wonder what God thinks of this mess.

Sounds like a description of the Singing Ladies of the Way.

Waysider ... This is my point - the similarities between YFZ ranch and the Way. Where did WE have to go, when they kicked us out? No job, no money, and most of us had burned our bridges back to family and friends. And Trust and Obey ... You're right. They did it in TWI, polygamy of a sort, at least among the top dogs.

Here's what draws my attention to this situation in Texas: It makes me remember the continuous battle which raged in my own mind throughout my experience with the Way. My good sense, which told me the isolation and the rigidity and the hatred towards outsiders and the abuses to insiders ... all that stuff ... my good sense said, "RUN AWAY !!". But my cult-brain told me I would be rejected by God, my children would suffer, the devil would get me, the whole label of "Greasespot by midnight". Being always surrounded by others in the same boat - it was too hard to make an escape. I am wondering if the people on that YFZ Ranch struggle with the same battle in their minds. It will be interesting to see how many of the women return to the ranch, after the situation is resolved. It's already interesting that so many have voluntarily left. On the surface, it appears that they are simply accompanying their children, so they can take care of them. It made me think of going L.E.A.D., and having to leave my own children at Rome City. This was so hard for me to do. Unnatural and promoting family division. Similar to Mrs. Wierwille bragging about leaving her baby when they went to India. We were taught that even this was necessary for the furtherment of God's Word. I think those mothers from the YFZ Ranch were probably taught the same thing. This is the funky and bizarre rationale behind sharing your husband too - you do it for God. So, is it just me, empathizing and sympathizing with the people in this situation? It just seems so familiar. God bless the teen mom who spoke up. God bless the families who now have a chance to be free.

Haven't stopped by Greasespot for awhile, but thought I'd check in to see if anyone else out there is thinking about our own cult compounds - from which we escaped (thank you, God) - in light of the events happening in Texas. Authorities are removing children and women from a large polygamist ranch there. As this story unfolds day-by-day, and I see it on the news, it rattles me to the bone. The alleged abuses may be somewhat different than those that our own families experienced in the Way, but somehow quite similar I believe. The apparent isolation from the rest of the world, the blind obedience, the sadness on their faces - it sure brings back memories to me. Strange how the extremes of total confinement and cruel expulsion are trademarks of these groups. Like the Way and the Jim Jones cult and so many others, this polygamist group reportedly rejects members when it is convenient, effectively shunning them from their families after years of fostering total dependence. In this case it's the young men, who eventually reach an age when they might become competitors with the older ones, in the process of claiming more and more wives. Jim Jones and LCM also kicked out worthy males, probably for similar reasons, and in both of these cases identified the rejects as gay, so as to convince the other members that the shunning was necessary. It would be interesting to know the stated rationale behind the expulsion of the young men from YFZ (although the truth is pretty evident). I have to wonder too about the responses of the women and kids who have now been removed from that ranch. Are they maintaining their commitment to the cult? Are they divulging the truth to the law enforcement folks who are questioning them? Are they glad to be out? And what about the men who remain at the ranch? What are they planning to do? And then I wonder about me, and why this tugs at my heart like it does. Any thoughts?

Exactly. Watered Garden, you hit the nail on the head. When you've got so-called "leaders" who are looking for faults and weaknesses (in order to feel superior themselves) ... And you've got CHILDREN !!! who by nature are going to have many many faults and weaknesses, just because they haven't lived long enough to polish up their lifestyles ... Then what better target is there? We all remember the absurd situations that we were confronted for - and we were adults! The kids didn't stand a chance. I can honestly say I do not remember ANY edification for our children. The rebellious kids in Family Corps took the worst abuse of course. These were the ones who actually took a stand in their young years. Good for them. But bad for them too, because they got hurt the worst. My third child was in high school when we were in Family Corps. Those are tough years for any teenager, a time to define one's self, a time to claim an identity. But his identity was shot down and belittled and stomped on, with accusations and lies that would have crushed any adult. He is 29 now, a good man, but still aches for self esteem or confidence. I hate the Way Ministry.

I've written volumes on Greasespot about the damaging effects of TWI on my family. I'm not going to say much more about that. It's so sad. We have survived, but with great scars. Both Watered Garden and Bramble were dear friends of mine in the Way, interestingly in two separate communities, as the Corps moved us around a lot (another damaging aspect of Way life). I can testify that both of these sets of parents were outstanding in their tenderness toward their children. I believe in the long run their kids will recognize this. As I read the opening replies to this thread, I am wondering ... Were there any fully functional healthy families in the Way? I can't think of any. The wooden spoon and the wife-ly obedience laws seemed to cripple even the best of kinships.

Here's a song that describes in-residence Corps training: http://www.last.fm/music/Buddy+%2526+Julie+Miller?autostart The lyrics: Orphans Of God I will rise from my bed with a question again As I work to inherit the restless wind The view from my window is cold and obscene I want to touch what my eyes haven't seen But they have packaged our virtue in cellulose dreams And sold us the remnants 'til our pockets are clean 'Til our hopes fall 'round our feet Like the dust of dead leaves And we end up looking like what we believe We are soot-covered urchins running wild and unshod We will always be remembered as the orphans of God They will dig up these ruins and make flutes of our bones And blow a hymn to the memory of the orphans of God Like bees in a bottle we are flying at fate Beating our wings against the walls of this place Unaware that the struggle is the blood of the proof In choosing to believe the unbelievable truth But they have captured our siblings and rendered them mute They've disputed our lineage and poisoned our roots We have bought from the brokers who have broken their oaths And we're out on the streets with a lump in our throats We are soot-covered urchins running wild and unshod We will always be remembered as the orphans of God They will dig up these ruins And make flutes of our bones And blow a hymn to the memory of the orphans of God

I can "testify" that Watered Garden is indeed an awesome mom. My family was in residence with hers, and we both had to protect our kids from daily abuses there. This is a little off-topic, but in the same way that a lot of Way doctrine was defined by certain personal preferences among Way leaders ... In a very similar way, the teachings on "spiritual suspicion" opened up a whole new dimension of personal preference which could be used against the peon believers. If a fellowship coordinator or Corps person didn't like you, he could get rid of you very quickly by simply claiming "spiritual suspicion". In residence we had a twig coordinator who came from a wealthy over-educated background. Upon graduation from Family Corps, he and his equally snooty wife were assigned to be State Coordinators in a western state. Unfortunately, another of our Corps sisters (a single mom with a little girl) was assigned to be their secretary or nanny or some-such thing, which meant that she and her daughter would be living in the same house as this stuck-up couple. Well, the single gal was neither pretty nor educated, not a stylish dresser or articulate speaker. Soon after leaving Rome City, we learned that this new State Coordinator had marked and avoided his secretary based on "spiritual suspicion". This girl had a heart of gold, loved God, and was a decent mom. She got the boot because this guy and his pretty wife didn't want such an un-glamorous person living in their home. Those of us who knew the single mom were appalled. Other doctrines of personal taste: Black pepper is bad; kelp is good. All pets should attend obedience training - a doctrine later replaced by "no pets". If oil drips from your car, your believing is to blame. The kzillion things which were said to be "dog-whistles for devil spirits". And onions? Oh how I remember airing out the buildings before LCM would visit, because God forbid that he should smell any onions!! And does anyone remember that Corps Night confrontation, when a lady at Rome City had ... gasp and horror ... hung LCM's clothes in his closet without separating and color coding the shirts and pants? It became doctrine the very next day. We were all crazy back then. God forgive us.

Roy, You are not crazy. Just keep asking, and it will be shown to you more clearly what you need to know. Not many people are courageous enough to share visions like these. I believe visions are shown to a lot of folks, but we are afraid to acknowledge what we see, and we intentionally shut them off. Certainly, visions are not commonly spoken of in our society. I am not the one to interpret another person's visions. I would, however, offer this observation: there is a repeating characteristic of circles and centers, and light within darkness, which is present in most of your descriptions. Does this mean something to you? To the rest of us? An outward movement? Good embracing bad? Radiating energy? Just some ideas. Please be careful with yourself. You have been gifted, not cursed. You must stay sure and strong to realize the revelations. Physical health is very important, so that you may continue to see these holy things. Do not doubt your worth. Take care. Shifra