Shifra

Cman, Yesterday, I got a call from one of my clients. She is expecting her baby in January. Her mother had called her and asked about her midwife (me). My client told her mother about my experience and credentials, etc. And she told her mom that I was a Christian too. Then her mother said "Call you midwife". My client asked why. The mother said it was on her HEART to give a message to her daughter's midwife. Strange. She said: "Tell your midwife that God loves his wounded soldiers". So the daughter called me and said this yesterday morning. Amazing. These people know nothing about my past, probably never heard of the Way Ministry, and I have never met the mother, only the daughter. Of course, this message did not come from living out of a book, but rather from doing what one's heart said to do. It was incredible.

Sky, does Van Impe have a specific book that you would recommend or maybe a website? Sunesis and Belle, thanks for the other resources you mentioned. Don't you think it's weird that there were books in the Bible that we were told to skip over? I just figure there must be some lessons in these books that might have freed us from TWI a little sooner. Or maybe some doctrinal issues that might have put VP's teachings in question. Even the gospels were minimized. Anyhow, Daniel is short and easy to read, if anybody out there is interested in attempting their own "take" on this book. I just keep wondering if some of it doesn't pertain to our current war.

I just finished the Book of Daniel, in my review of scripture ignored by TWI. It's fun to read the stuff we didn't hear much about in the Way. Oh sure, they picked out a few verses - often out of context - but I don't remember much focus on Daniel. It's really an awesome book! Beyond the fiery furnace and the lion's den, the book gets into some pretty surrealistic events. Despite the Way's insistence that angels don't have wings, this book mentions Gabriel in flight. And despite the Way's teachings that revelation does not happen in dreams, and that any dreams identified in the Bible were actually visual revelations that happened while the person was awake ... despite all of that ... Daniel's dreams are frequently described as occurring at night and while he was asleep. Very interesting. And his visions as written in the last few chapters are comparable to the sci-fi scenes in the Book of Revelations. Has anyone interpreted these in light of contemporary events? The Book of Revelations has been worked inside outside and upside down - in movies and songs and lots of modern literature. But what about Daniel? What does the symbolism mean? Does any of it pertain to the present day? There are many references to Persia. Just askin'. You guys seem well-informed about such things. Tell me what you know.

More thoughts on WHY the language of TWI was developed and enforced: How we think is often based on how we speak or how we hear others speak. Reading, too, is all about our language. Like I said earlier in this thread, foreigners who are fluent in English will usually tell you that they still THINK in their native tongue. This is how our brains work. Sooooo.... To say that a mere human could "create", as Nero pointed out, would have been an acknowledgment of an ability (God-given, by the way) which very few of the Way leadership actually had. VPW copied much of his material from other authors, LCM dabbled and failed in his attempts at dance and acting, and the clergy simply imitated the top dogs. No creativity in these guys. If, then, a lowly TWI person were to be "creative", it would give that person power beyond their leadership. It would also allow for "creative" thought and expression, and just imagine how threatening that would have been to the whole structure and doctrine of TWI. By eliminating the word "creative", they very quietly eliminated creativity. Likewise, words like "Luck" and "Chance" took power away from the Nazi leadership of TWI, and gave it to ... fate. Words like "twig" very subtly implied smallness, or something that is easily broken. This helped us to define who we were as part of the twig - weaklings! The Way became so arrogant about controlling our language, that they even made up words that no dictionary contains ... such as "retemory" ... which then made us all sound like total fools out in the real world. If you pick up any book on cults, you will find that an actual characteristic of most cults is that they have a rigid vocabulary which has been modified from the normal language of the area. Incredible that we were so tricked and confined by this, and that many of us STILL use Way-speak years later.

My heart goes out to the many people whose "believing" was insufficient (according to TWI) to prevent flat tires and rainstorms and illnesses. As a friend to lots of TWI folks through the years, it was difficult enough - as it would be with any friend - to endure hardship with them ... BUT ... if a hardship occurred to a family in TWI, not only were they faced with the hardship itself, but also with the condemnation from Way leaders because their "believing" was bad. I remember a Corps family who lost a child, and another in which the wife passed away. These families were discussed by name during a Corps Night, and rather than offering a prayer of compassion, LCM just RIPPED these grief-stricken people to shreds, blasting their poor believing and of course banishing them from TWI forever. Sick as it was, this behavior was totally logical if you actually think that the "believer" controls God. If, on the other hand, you recognize that GOD Himself is the One in control, then it would be ridiculous to condemn the "believer" when something goes wrong. Get it? The actual DOCTRINE evolved from the terminology of "believing FOR" something or "believing TO do or get something". Whatever happened to just BELIEVING GOD? Talk about idolatry! But, of course, if something bad happened to leadership, it was because they were so very very good, that the Adversary had attacked them. Good grief.

Needs and wants? Maybe VPW got the idea from the Rolling Stones. "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need." (Only if you tithe, that is, because God's love is CONDITIONAL. Huh?) And how does this line up with the stuff VPW and LCM actually HAD? Like - Their cars ... even planes? Their women? Their hunting dogs? Their auditorium? Their power over thousands of people? ETC ETC Wants or needs ... or ... who cares? It was wrong, in theory and practice. Sarckat, do you see how messed up this is? Sorry to welcome you aboard with an argument. Seriously, welcome anyhow.

Yep. But he sure managed to hatch out a bunch of junior parrots in the process. Us !!! And pretty soon we were all "believing for" things and "getting our needs and wants parallel" and ... Polly wanna cracker? Like I said earlier, the really sad problem was when we began to actually THINK in WAY-SPEAK, even though we didn't understand what a lot of it meant. Our lingo changed, and then our lives changed.

Tithing fits into this discussion, because it was - and still is - a Godly principle which lots of folks (including myself) have practiced for a long time. And yet, despite its age-old merit, even tithing was taught in a self-serving and God-minimizing way. Give God ten percent, and get back a lot more. It was the ultimate casino game. It was like a fail-proof stock market strategy. And where was God in all of this? Where was our love for God? For years I tithed, as a necessity - not only to be accepted within the Way, but also to ensure that I could pay my bills. It was heresy indeed! Even after I was out of TWI, I continued to tithe, and still do. But I am starting to evolve away from that old motive. Every now and then, I still find myself returning to that magical thinking - that tithing is my good luck charm, rather than an expression of my gratitude to God. In the New Testament, Jesus said that when we give to the least his children, we give to him. I am learning (re-learning) that the recipient is God, even if I'm just giving money to the local homeless shelter or to a friend who needs help. And that's good enough, whether I get anything back or not. Anyhow, the underlying flavor of "Believing" among TWI people became more of a superstition. Push this button and God will do this. Pull that lever and God will do that. Interesting that God is so forgiving and so loving that He blessed our simple understanding ... in spite of ourselves.

Funny ... but as I've posted for awhile on Greasespot, and used the acronym of TWI for The Way International, I have wondered if "TWI" might have been the origin of the word "Twig". Never heard that explanation, but I have wondered. I remember the explanation of the Way tree structure as being based in Jethro's advise to Moses to set up a bureaucracy of leadership with him at the top. Delegation of power.

"Conscious has many parts to name a few silence and self-awareness with moments of loudness". Wow, Roy. Where did you learn this? Certainly not in the Way. Certainly not in most churches. This is the understanding of the more indigenous people. People who are connected to the earth in a spiritual way, and who know how to listen - more than the endless talking that is so common among us Christian types. I think they know God better than we do. Being quiet is such a key to connecting ... with God, self, people, animals. The most difficult part of experiencing silence and self awareness is just making the time to do it. I used to have a hot tub, which was outside. And in the winter with snow all around, I could sit out there in the tub, and watch the stars. If I kept the jets turned off, the deer would come around too. I moved away from that place. Recently, I have been wanting to get another hot tub, but kept telling myself it is just a luxury that I can't really afford. Well, maybe it's not a luxury. Maybe it's my route to a daily quiet time.

Mr. C- I like that line of "Give yourself away to have it return again". Where did that come from?

Thanks Paw. Now I must venture into the great unknown of advanced technology (unknown to me, at least). Podcasts? Hmmm. Still trying to catch up with the rest of you on this stuff. I am BELIEVING TO figure it out. Yikes!

Nobody except Way people say things like this: "I am believing to go on vacation" or "I am believing for a new car". Barf. Gag. I still catch myself talking like this sometimes, and I see it on Greasespot now and then too. So here's a little whining from me about this disgusting use of the word "Believing". It's not just the Way-Speak factor, but also the implication that goes along with it ... a subtle but definite diversion of meaning which happens with this diversion in language. Believing involves some entity which is believed. It could be a person or a story or even a doctrine. We believe IN things, but not FOR things or TO have something happen. Think about it. If I say I believe God, then the honor and trust belongs to God. If I say I believe my mother, then the honor and trust belongs to her. Now if I say I believe TO go on vacation, and then I get to actually go on vacation, who is the honorable or trustworthy entity? Me !!! If I am believing FOR a new car, and I don't get one, who screwed up? Me !!! In Way-Speak, TWI people are constantly referring to believing To and For things, which by sheer logic attributes the success or failure of the believing on the believe-er. It is one more method that was taught to us (via our echo-ing of leadership lingo) which in effect diminishes God's involvement and opens the door for the worship of certain humans. It also invites condemnation whether from one's self or from those "superior" "believers". Then there are the statements like "I am believing God for a new car". BELIEVING Him? Come on now. God never told you you would get a new car. It's just weird. Language is very powerful. I think ex-Way people should become aware of their speaking habits and consciously work to delete these tricks of speech that were programmed into us by repetition and isolation from non-Way influences. Many English-speaking foreigners will tell you that they still THINK in their native language. I am certain that some of us still THINK in Way-Speak.

Dot, I think you already know the answer, because you chose the perfect title to this thread: "The God Questions". If anyone actually knew the answers to these questions, they would be God. His thoughts are higher than ours, remember? And it's a good thing they are! Love ya.

Roy, Tell us how to consciously and intentionally move forward. Most of us got stuck in the TWI religious stage for awhile. Then gradually we pulled ourselves out of the muck and began growing again. This was a major feat and was undoubtedly propelled by God Himself, because not only were we locked into a tight group of people, but also we were programmed to reject any other spiritual perspectives! We may have lost some precious time there in the Way, but are making up for it now. God is so good to us! How can we be sure to keep moving toward truth in our connection with Him and each other? I trust your wisdom.

Dan, I can't seem to access the article you want us to read. From the excerpts and commentary offered by other post-ers here, I get the idea that part of this new perspective on Paul has to do with the various ceremonies carried out by Pagans and Christians, and how they resemble or compare to each other. I hope this isn't off the subject. I'd just like to say that ceremonies are essential to deepening beliefs and firming up traditions, because they include most of our senses as avenues of assimilating the particular concept. The Christian communion ceremony certainly goes back to Passover roots. And the Passover likely goes back to some other ritual. The problem with ceremonies is when they lose their original meaning and become robotics. Contemporary religions don't create ceremony; they just go on auto-pilot and repeat the motions and words - although some try to offer up an explanation, but usually miss the mark. Creating one's own ceremonies is an amazing way to feel God's presence or to heal in a spiritual way. Paganism is loaded with ceremony, which is not a bad thing at all, and interestingly the Christians (whose own ceremonies are so crippled with disconnection to meaning) point to the Pagan "rituals" as proof of Satanic affiliation, devilish-ness, or idolatry. Take ... candles for example. All through the so-called "new age" spiritualism, you will hear about Light, and Auras, and such. Even these words trigger labels of witchcraft among fundamentalist Christians. But think about all those candles the churches have kept in their service for centuries. Symbols are what makes ceremony, and the symbols which people understand are universal, so the ceremonies are bound to be similar. Here's an example of what I'm saying which might ring a familiar bell: The Pagans celebrate May Eve with a dance around the May pole. You've heard of this before, I'm sure. But do you know what follows the intertwining of the ribbons? Well, there is a bonfire lit, and folks dance around it joyfully until someone leaps over the flames. Then others follow, leaping the fire and calling out their particular wishes as they leap. I'm quoting from an old book here: "Jumping the flames is an act of purification and brings luck. Lovers can leap the bonfire together, to cleanse their relationship of petty disharmonies. Those who want to get rid of something - insecurity for example - can jump, calling out 'I leave my insecurity in the flames!' " ... And we thought Uncle Harry invented "Burn the Chaff Day". My point is much like Bramble's: When it comes down to it, people are people. Religion and ceremony and relating to God are as basic as DNA, and personally I find that very encouraging. OK. Well, I'm posting on a thread about an article that I can't read. Sorry if this is completely off-topic.

Sir Guess, In the video, does the guy die? It looks like there's blood all around him after the girl gets into his brain. And the lyrics say "we'll have each other when everything else is gone". Everything ... like ... life? If there is no life, then what? I thought it was sorta eerie. It left me questioning the meaning. Had I not watched it in the context of this thread, my interpretation would have been this: In a relationship, if one person digs so deep to find every detail of the mechanism that runs the other person ... then the other person essentially dies. He has no identity of his own any more. He is just a head - has no body, no movement, no drive. And then the mystery of partnering with another spirit, the intimacy of connection without absorption ... becomes impossible ... because one has invaded the other and plundered his soul. It's like in the classic wedding vows - "to HAVE and to hold". Not a good idea, to HAVE someone else. And that's what the lyrics said: "we'll HAVE each other", followed by "when everything else is gone". Sorry. I'm very visual in my thinking, and I didn't like the concept of one person digging into someone else's brain.

No no no!!! It's not for me! I'm a gramma! Way too old for having babies. I'm a midwife, and a client of mine asked if there was any material out there for helping them have a boy. I just delivered their fourth daughter. I remembered Doc Rawlins' teachings, but couldn't locate any of it. I appreciate the input on this thread, and will buy that book. However, I will only loan it to clients with a disclaimor about its unscientific basis. And yes, I agree, TWI was extremely ignorant about health issues. Being in residence as a nurse was an enormous exercise in biting my tongue. And when I offered to assist with a little bit of my own education and experience, they "LET" me do the lice checks on everyone's heads. Yuk.

Sir Guess, It happens at the other end of life too. At the beginning. When a baby is born, all souls in the room blend into one praying unity. It doesn't matter who they are, not their tattoos or their rosaries or their eagle feathers. Their longing runs to each other like magnets, wanting only to hear the little one cry and turn pink. And nobody cares which kind of prayer you bring to this potluck of hope. I have often said that our culture misses out on so much, because we have placed the passages of death and birth into the hands of technology, professionals, disinfectants and plastic tubing. But When we look these events right in the eye, and grab on, then we can (and do) walk through the fire and the sea together, like the long braid of generations before us, seeing LIFE - that sacredness between the passages - in the way it was intended. We all get born and we all die, so of course these events are is the epitome of common ground.

I wonder what it feels like to be Craig Martindale. Does he go to church? Does he lead a fellowship in his home? Is he on Match.com? Does he ever get to go home to HQ? Does he have any remorse about so many years of abusing power? Does he even realize what he's done, and what level of harm he caused? Do you think God forgives even him?

Thanks. If you think the info is too graphic, you could just send it to me privately. In my 25 years as a midwife, I've observed a couple of totally UN-scientific things: People who eat the all American meat-and-potatoes diet ... these folks have more boys. And people who are either vegetarian or junk food junkies ... have more girls. Sorta makes you wonder about the old wives' tale: "Sugar and spice and everything nice That's what little girls are made of. Snails and nails and puppy dog tales That's what little boys are made of. But this is not at all Doc Rawlins' methods. Seems like she taught something about whether or not both mommy and daddy fully enjoyed the intercourse that made the baby. OK. Too graphic? And maybe I'm not remembering correctly. It was such an unusual theory that I'd like to find the actual teaching, so I know I'm not just imagining this.

I remember Doc Rawlins talking about and writing about how you could choose the sex of your baby-to-be. It was in one of her "Hey God" articles. Does anyone out there still have this? And if so, could you post it, or tell me how to get ahold of it? Thanks.

Which potter? Harry?

I grew up in a Presbyterian family. Presbyterians believe in "pre-destination". After my Membership Class, at age 12, I asked my dad why we pray for things if God already has it all planned out. He said "God doesn't necessarily know everything, but He has the ability to know everything". Hmmmmmmm. I never much liked that answer, but I sure have remembered it for a long time. And - I have sometimes wondered about the Isaac and Abraham situation, why God would put Abraham through such a heart-wrenching ordeal. Likewise why He required Abraham to put Ishmael and his mom out of the camp. These were difficult demands for old Abe. But I think there are some parallels between these requests and the way God later handled his own Son and sons. In the Ishmael story, he was not the favored son for sure. But apparently he was salvagable, because God ended up protecting him, and promised to give him many descendants. And we know He was true to His promise. Maybe Ishmael was the template for the Gentiles who were later welcomed into Christianity, even though they weren't the first targeted group. In the long run, they were salvagable. ????? As for Isaac, obviously there are parallels with God giving his own Son, who like Isaac was also delivered (resurrected) later on. They say that Abraham was "a friend of God". Could it be that God used his "friend" to do a test run, as He planned out how He would address the future? Sorta like the old cereal commercial, where the two brothers say "Let Mikey taste it". Maybe God was thinking, "If it works for Abraham, it might work for me". OK. I'm out there.

Excathedara, That was PERFECT!