Larry N Moore

You realize, of course, that Mr. Squirrel might not take kindly to your suggestion to roast squirrels, don't ya?

Same to you dooj. I can't whip up a Turkey dinner so, will you settle for a big dish of . . . .

Well, to borrow a phrase from WW -- Let me put it in PLAIN ENGLISH (caps are WW's forte, not mine) -- To each his own.

Dooj, you bring new meaning to the phrase "back-seat driver". ;) Actually, there's no actually about it. We all choose to drive our car in our own direction. If I want to go north, while you want to go south there's very little chance that we'll have a head-on collision (unless for some reason you decide you want to do a U-turn -- then we might have a problem).

Interesting thread. I thought post #16 was especially good.

Right back at ya Paw!

I suppose America is not called The Melting Pot without reason. I think it's called Liberty.

Well, thanks to ITunes I was able to find These Days (by Jackson Browne). Beautiful song. Can't locate the other one though. Yes, I followed Sushi's post but I didn't recognize who the artist was. Doing a search on ITunes located it pretty quickly for me. It is a very nice song.

David, could you consider redoing your links. Both of them only led me to a home page and when I did a search for the particular titles the links point to, I get no results. I'd like to hear the songs.

"And of those memories I realize Lake Erie has the most powerful and haunting presence in my mind. When I was very little . . . I would stare out over the lake form his porch, hypnotized by the enormous ships full of ore . . . . I would become absorbed in the beautiful, awesome vastness, trying to take in how something could be so enormous, and yet, I could walk down the steps from the porch and set foot in and touch the waters that were in turn touching the boats so small in the distance. So strange to be so far and still be a part of the one which my fingers could touch. As I touched the lake and thought about how in a sense, I was touching those ships as well; I was learning my first lessons of initimacy." Lol – I can so relate to what Christian says here. With the exception of two years I've lived near Lake Erie all my life. I could practically spit in it from my front porch. I stopped swimming in it by the time I reached thirteen – after catching so many fish with tumors I figured it wasn't safe. Anyways . . . . Lake Erie has always served as a compass for me – it's location was/is imbedded in my mind. I've always knew what direction I was facing because I knew the Lake was always north. The first time I moved away it took me almost five months to get my bearings. Some might wonder why I couldn't figure it out from the movement of the sun. Like I said – Lake Erie's location was embedded in my mind – in my world it meant more to me than the sun – it meant – home. I think we all have our reference point (compass) that guides us through life. When removed from that reference point we sometimes lose our way.

*HEAVY sigh* Eyes I guess at this point in our exchanges all that's left for me to do is to offer you a big dish of biscuits and gravy. Btw, my dear -- If you should happen to find a couple strands of hair in it, I assure you that they're not mine.

It's possible but, if one were to read the TWO posts that John actually did contribute to GS it's more likely that he hasn't given permission for anyone to speak on his behalf. He didn't have a problem speaking for himself back in 2004 and 2005. No, I think you're grasping for straws. But, if it's inconvenient for you to believe that DWBH stated a clear falsehood then what else can you do? The truth will set you free. ;) Anything's possible dooj. And if they are lurking here then what do you make of their silence? That they're squirming or shaking their heads in disbelief that people can be so eager to crucify them.

Red flag #1 -- John has only posted twice on GS. Once in 2004 and the other time in 2005. A little more than a year. In addition you claim he posted a load of information; long letter; other letters and documents and happenings of his ministry here. How did you get all that from only TWO posts? Is giving false testimony of your brother in Christ a Christian thing to do?

Personally, I find it dishonest of a person to edit and delete a portion of a post which has been referred to in another thread (after it was reverenced).

Are you suggesting that JL called Pawtucket and requested this forum to be set up? What follows from this seems to indicate that you are. It becomes a matter of one person stating what was said on the phone, minus confirmation from the other party of that conversation, that it's true. Is it unreasonable for me with-hold my belief that it is true? I think not. Oh! Wait a minute!!!! A light-bulb goes off. Yes, I have no way of judging if DWBH is telling the truth. He very well could be. However, there are little red flags I've seen that suggest that there's something to this story that doesn't quite ring true. That's honest of you (and appreciated by me). Given your bias I have no choice but to think that you would naturally be inclined to see JL run through a ringer (you may be too young to know what that is). It might be. I do thank you for your candor and (civil) attempt to reason with me.

Do as you will. I don't agree with you but, that's besides the point.

Paw, you'll find where I got the quote from in Belle's new topic Who is John Lynn? It's the very last paragraph.

Dooj, could you rephrase this? I'm not sure what you mean because the first part of the statement doesn't seem to agree with the second. Iow -- if you ask me to do something for you, how can you manipulate that request into something else? The question is: Why should I? I don't know who DWBH is. I don't know if he has a personal axe to grind. Paw accused me of being harassing because I have posted a comment by JL every time DWBH has posted another one of his inquisition posts. My posts may be considered harassing but, if so, then so are DWBH by the same standard. I haven't seen the first written confirmation. I asked for a confirmation written by JL that he requested this forum to be set up. I haven't found it. I sense that.

Paw, despite the fact that I thought we had an agreement, I'll comply with your PUBLICLY made DEMAND -- when I have more time to look through my computer files. In regards to "harassing people" -- I think you should take note of cman's post (above) to me. It's a clear example of harassment. DWBH post's also fit that description -- IMHO. I guess it's all relative -- isn't it?

Eyes, did I misunderstand you when you stated the following? It seems to me you were making the implication that you don't think John (or the other leaders of CES) are genuine ministers. Instead of lecturing me about what you think I'm doing why don't you simply clarify what you meant. That would be appreciated. I've availed myself to you with the invitation to PM email me. I haven't received one from you yet. I've done my own research, thank you very much. From it I see nothing that would indicate that JL made himself available to be questioned by members of GS on a public forum. I've heard it stated that John requested this forum to be set up. Confirmation of that statement I could not find. Maybe dooj could be so gracious as to provide me a link to that. Mr. Squirrel, you're very bright.

No but, if you know of one I'd appreciate it if you could tell me how to download it. It would make it possible for me to waste less of my time. :blink:

No, I'm saying your heart could be wrong. Unless you've never been wrong about a person's motives in the past I don't think that's an unreasonable comment to make. It's difficult to address someone whose mind is already convinced that Joyce Meyer is a false prophet. Is that also a strawman argument? What she "sells" has helped thousands and thousands of people get closer to God (in relationship). If that's called "snake oil" then even some of the members of GS are buying it. (See the other thread about Joyce Meyer). I guess they're just being tricked by another false prophet, huh? *sigh* I guess you missed my point that Solomon was responsible for serving God's children. He was rewarded with great wealth. Do you think Solomon never spoke God's word to God's children and inspired confidence in his leadership? Seldom will a man (nation) support another man if they don't instill confidence in their ability to lead them. Solomon was such a man. We aren't talking about Martindale or Wierwille. This is a strawman argument. What is Joyce's "whole"? Are there not thousands upon thousands that have been brought to a closer relationship with God? Isn't that what God wants? YOU don't have to take it all. YOU aren't the one needing a stronger relationship with God. THEY (that support Meyer's ministry) are the only one's whose "faith" matters. Well, I suppose you'll have to ask all those who have benefited from her ministry if what she does and says is credible evidence her ministry being of God. If it's not of God, then Satan sure does have knack for making idiots out of a bunch of people. *sigh* I don't recognize the Didache as being authoritative on this subject any more than I recognize the authority of the Gospel written by Mary Magdalene.

Did he, now? John made a total of two posts. If I recall -- in his first post he stated: "My dear pal Jeff recently informed me that he has been posting some things I've written in the past, and that it has stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest. At his suggestion, I had a nice visit with "PawTucket" by phone, and told him I'd be glad to make myself available to some degree, though probably not to the extent that will satisfy some of you." It seems to me that an argument could be advanced that he was "baited". He goes on to say (in that same post) "I will probably not spend much time reading or answering a bunch of posts, but will give you my email address (jalces@aol.com) and home (317-849-5707) and office (317-255-6189) phone numbers in case you really want to communicate with me. I'm not much for communicating with those unwilling to identify themselves, although I have often done so when I felt it would serve them. I prefer the personal touch of the phone over email, so as to better experience one another's hearts." I think he makes his position quite clear. He won't waste his time here defending himself. Why is it so difficult to understand that? He further goes on to say: "My goal in taking a shot at coming onto G-spot is to do whatever I can for anyone who is interested in knowing, loving, and walking with The Man, the Lord Jesus Christ, whom I have come to know much better in the years since I was dispatched by TWI. " Which if taken in conjunction with what he says at the end . . . "If you want to know more about Jesus, check out this link." . . . seems to be saying, in my mind, that if anyone is interested in walking with our Lord Jesus Christ then he's interested in helping you. But if you're only interested in attacking him then -- he's not going to waste his (or the Lord's) time. Eyes, I think what you said to Danny . . . . . . says it all. You believe that John has tricked and misled the people of CES. It's possible that he doesn't agree with you (and based on his two posts here on GS I think it's highly likely that's what he thinks). Seeing as how you've already concluded in your mind that John is a false minister of the Lord why would he waste his time answering any of your questions. I know that if it was me -- I wouldn't.

Since you've already concluded that ministers who live lavishly are living immorally I can understand why you consider them "hucksters". Despite that conclusion, the defense that "you don't know her heart" stands because you really don't know it. You know what your heart says on the issue -- and yet, your heart could be wrong. I bring up Solomon (and Job -- and I could bring up many other examples) wealth because the Bible clearly states that his wealth was given to him by God. Are you now judging that God is wrong to give such great wealth to a man who serves Him? You must have missed my previous reference to Job. He wasn't a king and yet after Satan took away all that he possessed it says the Lord doubled back his loss. How do you think God gave to Solomon or Job (or any of the others mentioned) their great wealth? Did He whip out His checkbook and write them out a blank check? I believe there's a verse that says something about "pressed down, shaken together and overflowing shall MEN give unto your bosom." Well, Joyce says she loves God and spends all her time telling others how to live for God. I think those words and actions are in harmony with each other. Given the type of persecution many of the Christians suffered during the early years of Christianity I doubt many of us posting on GS would have done too well back then either.

Although I can understand why you would think I am, I assure you that that's not what I'm doing. Why would you think that's true? Because he won't respond to DWBH? I (obviously) don't care what people (who don't really care for me) think or say about me. Throughout my life I've heard so many seemingly good people say negative things about me that I've gotten to the point that I could care less. What matters the most (and what I take notice of) are those people who love me when I'm at my best and especially at my worst. Well, when he stands before God he'll have to answer to Him. So will you and I. From a Biblical point of view I think Titus, chapter 3, makes a lot of logical sense when it says: A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. I don't see anywhere in that passage where it says we are to continuously badger that person until he submits to our interrogation. One of the things that turned me off of TWI is the thinking of leaders who thought it was their God-given right and authority to interrogate you until you submitted to their way of thinking. There's no love in that. But I'm sure they (the leaders of TWI) thought otherwise.