DrWearWord

Abigail wrote: And yet Paul instituted his own laws in the process. Laws about whether or not to marry and why, whether or not to divorce and why, laws about when women could and could not speak, laws about marking and avoiding, laws about divorce, etc. Comment: Marriage involves two people not only one. Thus the law of liberty must be involved in shaping the means in which they treat each other. Marriage can simply become another form of slavery. Also through the translation Paul's intent has been obscured. It all seems a moot point when Paul says, there is neither male nor female.. So if there is neither male nor female which one in the relationship is the husband and which is the wife? Another note, a law is not a law if God is not going to punish you for disobedience. God can only see us as holy because God looks to our spirits not our faults. (we would not know this if we did not have Paul's law of liberty.) But by breaking the law of liberty we do pay a price in the flesh even though our spirits are untouchable...

Would you rather me quote move on dot org or maybe the satanic verses instead? In am an ex wayer but I do not desire to deface the truth in order to be independent of that group. I still have the deepest respect for VP and PROUD OF IT. I have found some holes in both VP and especially Craig's doctrine (i.e. law of liberty) but have declared most of it sound... I have over 20 years in the ministry/word since I first spoke in tongues in the class. Just because Jesus walked in liberty does not mean Paul did not. Paul is the greatest source of the truth of Christ Jesus and the law of liberty that we now live under. How about if I quote a secular source... Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

I am getting ahead of myself here I think... :)

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded 8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. Comment: The world has obtained grace. I consider Paul the apostle a genuine man of God that within his plight to settle his warring mind received the revelation that enabled him to reconcile the law that had been instilled within him in light of his love for the lord Jesus Christ. This reconciliation came in the spiritual understanding of the gift of God and the law of liberty and equality.

When people are law conscious it does not matter how many times God (through Paul) tells them they are free they will gravitate to the few vague places where it seems "maybe" they are not free and use these places to persecute God and others (even themselves) without mercy. Grace is the very first step of the Christian walk... wearword

In all love and respect... I can't believe how far many of you have drifted from the truth. You have forgotten. You have broken the word. The Bible was written by holy men who saw "two" realities. Where would the Christian church be without this: Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Doctrinal is always a good start. :) The process of remembering and how that relates to the directives of the word of God is for us to reach ahead. It seems something is either here or there but the twain never appear to meet. Something is superlative and absolute and the past must remain like, "suppressed". Like we are supposed to become brainwashed and disassociate ourselves from the life that has brought us here thus far. We are supposed to place a schism between our spiritual family and earthly family/friends. As some notion that we cannot both identify ourselves with this world and with the spirit and still remain in fellowship with God. In light of the this law of division unity is destroyed and the walk of the law of liberty is cut off.

Who are you calling old? :)

Is this a trick question? :)

One must reach back as far as possible on order to hurl a javelin as far ahead as possible... Though we keep our eye on the target/goal/mark/prize we still reach back in order to achieve forward momentum.

When I reach back and recall fifty thousand people praying in a corn field my heart goes into a state of catatonic bliss.

We were taught that the body was made to reach ahead but reaching back is also something an athlete must be adept at. Just as we are able to be agile at reaching back into our past and discerning the good from the bad, the happy from the sad. For our past becomes spiritually discerned. We should also be especially adept at reaching ahead too, but reaching back should not be neglected for there are many lessons and loves of the past that should be remembered. Just as the past has many lessons that are better left forgotten. The past must be often faced in light of the new spiritual identity in Christ Jesus. We need to be strong in the lord past, present and future.

If not Paul then who else in the world has revealed the great mystery to the extent that Paul did? God used Paul to reveal the ministry of Christ Jesus and the conditions of our salvation. As with any law of liberty the balanced walk is up for scrutiny. One cannot relinquish the law too far as they may become so liberal that they offend sensible morality. So we defeat sin in a riddle that provokes consideration, tolerance and moderation. Create a conundrum. It is a hard task to teach cultural moderation in such a tumultuous time as the first century and then to be scrutinized for it two thousand years later. Try teaching moderation and freedom from the law to the middle east today... The book of Romans reads as clear as a bell, our freedom from the law and our walk of the spirit is detailed abundantly within it's pages. How much more clear does one need to be? We war against the flesh and whenever law is removed for a greater law we are then free to walk by the spirit in the law of liberty and gratitude. When we apply the same law of liberty that Jesus practiced we see that moderation is the result. Liberation and obedience to the walk of the holy spirit come with the mind of Christ. Two is company and three is a crowd. There is no need to throw a guest out because we have a better guest to entertain. We just learn to please both guests by pleasing God. Paul walked with the same image of God that Jesus Christ radiated. Both guests had holy spirit and they both walked in liberty and grace. People rarely perceive the middle path. liberty = self law = law law of liberty = spirit of God

I tend to lean to the idea Peter is talking about the flood of Noah and not a pre Eden flood. (there are waters in heaven) For had the pre Eden earth inhabitants known no knowledge of good and evil (law) then they would have befallen no judgment due to their own actions. Only heavenly creatures had knowledge of evil due to the fall of lucifer. Yet I don't actually recall if science ever concedes to a period in the earth's past when it was ever completely without dry land somewhere. So the dry land appearing in Genesis is land that is becoming "discovered in the consciousness of humans" by the spirit. The land appeared because it became holy and exhibited God's presence. Because of the created spirit upon them they could perceive God. The land exhibited a spirit of God, as water is the spirit of the land. They became spiritual travelers of the earth and learned to navigate it during the seasonal changes. They were the first to learn and learned to recognize the rising and setting of the sun and the positions of the stars. They were early migrant tribes that had just awoken from a dream of barbarism and innocence. (evil in high places) This iniquity was found in heaven so lucifer was thrown out of heaven. He became the lowliest "form" of all creatures. Beauty must also have form. (even a rock has form) Though an actual snake is only a descriptive figure to relay the subtlety of the creature and the preconceived cognition and intent to create mischief. We really cannot consider that God would think a snake is inordinately "beautiful". Beautiful to the extent to exalt it above all other creatures? But nearly all creatures begin as a snake (embryo) and grows to more complex forms. So we all begin as snakes and we end ups as birds (doves). We see in Eden the snake regardless "in his fallen state" and not an exalted state of great form and beauty.. We see the snake bearing the simplest of all forms. Where when God formed man from the dust he would have started with snake like piece of clay DNA and the clay would have taken on more complex forms until man/woman were done. The fall of lucifer was possibly why prehistoric animals developed into such grotesque aberrations. They became our worst fears, dragon like distortions of life, massive sea crocodile, woolly mammoths and saber tooth tigers. It was the change of Eden that made the world hospitable that led up to the creation of the holy spirit upon Adam and Eve. Within all of the devils carnage God formed man and woman and revamped the world. When man and woman became capable of understanding day and night the beginning of time began. Their eyes were opened to consciousness they became self aware. This self awareness led to strife. For humans could have walked with God without becoming self aware. God was aware that lucifer would sin God was aware that man would sin and God was aware that Christ would be obedient to the spirit. And God walks in the middle road of liberty and love, the way of holiness. God's purpose is beyond our ability to fully grasp. But what it means to be human is part of God's essence. Our failures and our successes that build character, humility and patience. One day for Adam and Eve was not a thousand years but a roughly 24 hour period. In these seven days they became aware of the environment around them. God wears the creature as his own flesh when the creature is in unity with God's purpose. The word became flesh and dwelt among us God cuts out the male part at Christ's birth. Then he cuts out the female part when we leave the flesh behind. It is almost as if the original sin was sexuality in itself. There was a time when the earth was plenished but it was in chaos and void of any holy spirit. God chose to use this original sin to his advantage. Gabriel (soul) and Michael (body) And Christ is the holy spirit. Christ became the spirit when he was baptized. This is why Christ had legions of angels on the cross.. Michael was there to fight for the lord's bones and Gabriel was there in his life force, the dove symbolized Gabriel taking the soul of Jesus and transferring it to the spirit. the baptism. Melchizidek would have been part of an angelic cult. Fire and water flesh and blood. Michael and Gabriel. Lucifer in his fallen state as the God of this world and the unholy spirit of law. The fall of lucifer was the mutation that cause the rift between male and female. It is like Y is an organism that came to live in the female species and it's presence rendered the female species dependent upon Y for reproduction. Did the original mutation lead to the original sin? Possibly so... Humans were formed into TWO sexes long before Adam and Eve. God created the male and female but again, which God is Moses writing about? Moses seems incapable of the ability to distinguish between the only true God from the God of this world. God created spirit in the beginning of creation for the angelic hosts are spirit. The mind of God teaches the mind of the spirit that teaches our mind. Yet the mind of the spirit is actually our mind but through a veil or a glass darkly. Because our own physical mind (inner outer left right) can often obscure the liberty and prudence of the person of the unique spirit. God is Spirit zero and God created spirit one So body soul and spirit were supposed to function as a synchronous body. But because of the fall of lucifer the body (Michael) soul (Gabriel) and spirit (Lucifer then Christ) of the creature (creation) became broken and fractured and divided upon itself. Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Comment: We can see that even sexuality is a sin against the knowledge of the spirit. Even heterosexuality will not make it into heaven along with homosexuality. That the flesh was formed in sin. For reproduction is a counterfeit and an echo of God's creation but reproduction cannot compare to creation. The flesh reproduces the spirit creates. How many born of the flesh are still waiting their own spiritual rebirth? That sin was part of what life was made of due to the fall of lucifer.. Adam and Eve were already formed and made in sin. Or they would not have needed God's image in them. God made them male and female in his own image. Which God? A god who has theoretically no image suddenly he/she has a male and female image of fertility? Did God give humans differing male and female spirits? Isn't sexuality and duality a form of division that the spirit is above? So all sex will be going to hell... (So much for virgins in paradise.) The sin of Adam and Eve is they looked to the flesh and saw the differences instead of looking to the spirit and seeing the unity. They looked to the self and saw one instead of zero. How can we all be one in Christ if we consist of a sexual rift? Jesus spoke of the being no marriage in heaven but all are as angels and sexless. (as He apparently was) That while the earth brought forth creatures it also brought with it a nature of corruption imagery idolatry and self deification. So this evil was in the world before we were even formed from the dust. For how can God's image be both male AND female? (“God created them in his image both male and female created them he. “) This is why God has no image. For zero has no image. The value of one can represent male OR female. Only zero can represent God. Only the holy spirit can return us to infinities creative state of zero. Traveling light is weighing nothing. It is the quantum state of the new body. Losing the self and adorning the self with the divine in all of us, the fabric of the sameness. Unity is not oneness... it is zeroness and the love that transcends all that stands between our own limitations and God's unlimited power. Unity is not emancipating the self it is identifying the self with God. Science (flesh) has their own Eve story where man comes from woman's rib and not Eve from man's rib. In the science version geneticists contend that man's Y chromosome is a mutation of the X chromosome. If this is true then what is God actually saying? Thus God formed the flesh of man from the DNA of woman. Then there is the consideration that the chromosomes mutated when we were still in a biological state (insects, fungi plants etc...) and had not evolved to humans yet. We may have still been pollen (dust) when the chromosome mutated. Either way God used the X chromosome to make the Y chromosome. Yet God created life before he created the flesh, he created the heavens and then the earth. They X chromosome alone may not have actually been termed a “living” creature. Y alone was a living creature. Y gave X life (soul) and X gave Y a body. It is the male that passes on the life (or energy part) and the female that has the flesh part thus the Y chromosome would represent "life", or heaven and the flesh earth. That man borrows the flesh from the female does not negate that the female receives "life" (this illusive force of breath) from the male. Both X and Y attempt to transcend to the spirit for this is the nature of life is to perpetuate the species.. So our bodies through science tell a different story of creation and the Bible must be seen in light of these revelations. God still also created the materials that all things (both heaven/life and earth/flesh) consist of. The only thing that God “created” in Eden was the spirit. All other things were created before the beginning of the first day. If the flood before Eden (if some want to refer to it as a flood) was (figuratively) prehistory and the ice age (this was the fall of lucifer period). As the flood of Noah was figuratively paganism. Then even the sun was spoken back into being after the ice age. It was not created during Eden it was only brought back into being "to the consciousness of those capable of perceiving it". Even the content of the atmosphere (breath) needed to be changed to accommodate human life over that of the prehistoric dinosaurs and mesozoic fauna. In a different tangent, death came into the world it did not come into the world during Eden. Death was on the earth long before Adam and Eve and it still remains here. Adam and Eve were not the first humans they were the first humans with holy spirit. They were formed from the dust of the ground in evolution just as the humans of prehistory were. But they were on the level of mere animals and plants not reasoning intellectuals clothed with the wisdom of the divine. Naked and wild. The flesh has suffered death for millions of years. Before Eden it had no hope of eternity. Time needed to begin in the humans psyche in order for it to ever attain infinity. It was the image of God that could have become eternal in Adam and Eve. But through trickery and the nature of this world the flesh was again thrown back into peril. Thus that when justice was carried out it was seemingly the hand of our very own loving God that became our judge and executioner. It has been only through the revelation of the apostles that we know our standing today in the spirit of the only true God and his wonderful son Jesus Christ. For this serpent stole the "spirit" for a time and stood in the “dominion” of the earth and plagued men of God as in holy men, like Job, and the same devil persecuted the flesh in it's own weakness and frailty. This devil tried the innocent and humbled the pharaohs and kings of the earth and brought them into blind submission to a torturous creature of a barbaric God. Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Comment: God heard the cries of the world and sent the messiah to walk in his example of the flesh and to offer this perfect flesh for the spiritual redemption of our souls and spirits. Thus we see that the flesh will one day perish and this world will cease to exist. But the spirit will remain and one day it will fulfill God's perfect purpose and meaning. It will radiate God' image and glory in a world without end. For the flesh is only a mere shadow of the glory of the perfect holy spirit within. Christ Jesus perfected the schism in the heavens and brought body soul and spirit back into the order of God. Jesus justified the creation and became the head of the creature (not the the creator). Christ Jesus left evil and sin with no place in the body. For the spirit of God justifies the flesh with grace and charity. God is a spirit and so are we. From Glory to glory. We are spirits created in God's image of grace and the perfect walk of love and fellowship is with God and each other. Yet our fellowship with each other is because of the image of God in each other. So ultimately our fellowship is always with God Back to the zero and one analogy. It is hard for humans to perceive a beginning with God. Because we are left to wonder what God was doing all alone before the beginning. Well God has left us some clues. It has to do with love and life . What is God always doing? Loving and living... For God is love and life. Yet is God really the essence of love or is God using another figure of speech? God is also light and in him is no darkness. So is God love or is God light? Is God a chemical response in the brain that creates a warm sensation in the chest area? Is God light or love? If God is light how can God speak himself/herself into being? This goes back to the zero and one thing. That zero is like nothing but the value one comes out of zero. All numbers come out of nothing. How can this be, but no one debates this axiom. Creation seems to come out of nothing.. A big bang of numbers. Science cannot tell what happened one split second before the big bang but I can tell you one thing that was there a split second before the big bang, that one thing is, LOVE. One thing like Emeril the chief's down home cooking BAM! And there was a whole lot of love in there going on, awe yea baby!!!! :) For the love of God is the light of God. God is the giver and zero is the seed that gives all of the numbers. Zero is love. Yet it is the head of creation (not the creator) that has been usurped by evil by many of the creation until Christ and then through Chris Jesus creation was brought back into the grace of God. For in the end the only law that will be in paradise will be the law of liberty. We shall freely eat of the tree of life and the spirit will remain in perpetual state of innocence. For God has rescued us from the fate of prehistory and the void of the abyss of the darkness. Love has no beginning or end. Peace with God

True, the left brain is of cursing (law) and the right brain is of blessing (liberty) but it is the path down the center that is holy. For we do not curse righteousness or bless sin. We are all born of the same holy spirit as Christ. God is our heavenly father not Jesus. (call no man father) We come out of God and the inner brain must compare with the outer brain in order to focus on the perception of the depth of love that is required to walk in the law of liberty.

2Corinthinas 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

I am going to name this post, "Another Reality". What started me thinking on this post was music in particular the rhythmical aspects of music. VP often spoke of music and it's parallels to the word of God. Well music is my earthly profession or long suit other than my spiritual duty to God of course. So I have not only thought about music allot but I have practiced music to the level of Olympic style training and performance. I have written music to the level of a master of music which has taken me years to achieve. So music is a reality in itself each song is a new reality, each song has a unique rhythm and tempo (speed). It takes a skilled musician to count the rhythm of a song's time signature. So for most untrained ears the counting of the rhythm goes by without notice. But when a musician encounters this rhythm they cannot help but start to tap their foot and count it. Because they are connected to musical realities. They hear the nuances of the beat and the pentameter of the verse. We each play a song to God. We each sing and play the instruments of our desires. We blow into the trumpet or saxophone in the nightclub called life. God strums the stings of our spirits as we strum the stings of our own souls. Music spills out into the world. God breathes words into our minds and they are a torch song for the world to lead them to the light of God's perfect harmony and unity of the spirit. For God is the conductor and though the song begins with the heavens and the earth, God's reality precedes the song itself. For God is the beginning and the end of the song and Christ is the theme revealing God's image of love. So it is God's love song to the world... And those who hear the song's character, rhythm and tempo and who can also can block out the noisy distractions of the world will perform this song and will recognize the melody when they hear God call them home. Peace with God Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

Galatians 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

This particular thread has been on my mind so I thought I would write what I have gotten so far. My dilemma started the other day when the failed bombing attempt at the Scotland airport happened. What struck me peculiar about the whole incident was the doctors who tried to pull off the failed suicide attempts. It is one thing to have an immature child or a Muslim woman who will never taste freedom to massacre and mutilate themselves is such a disrespectful way to the flesh, but doctors? This had me perplexed. When I get perplexed I put an enormous amount of thought into something. I hold this thought up against life and keep it present in my thoughts until a solution presents itself. I don't know if there is a "solution" for suicide bombers in general but there can certainly be some light shed on the whole subject. So as I was pondering this dilemma about doctors taking their own lives in the name of Allah suddenly I found my contrasting thought. I was walking down the street where I live and had these doctors on my mind and then a man who lives in my area walked by. This was not just any ordinary man... this was "shaky Bob" (what the locals refer to him as). One of the city drunks. But Bob is particularly ailed with his infirmity. When he walks down the street he does a kind of dance twirling his fingers and hobbling from leg to leg. The poor soul gets run over by cars from time to time sleeps in show banks yet there was shaky Bob hobbling down the road living another day to bum spare change for more beer and swill them down in some back alleyway. That was my contrast I needed to the radical muslim doctors. What does this all have to do with the law of liberty? Well it is the flesh and the impact that life has on the flesh. If the flesh/body is in peace and in a balance with the "holy" spirit then it lives but if it is out of balance it dies. The flesh can only live when it is connected to a living source. So in essence the body becomes devalued in both cases for "the spirit". The drunk has a different kind of spirit yet both unholy spirits lead to the destruction of the flesh. It is the radical Islamic spirit of law that obscured the holy spirit of the only true God. Only the holy spirit of God in Christ in us can cast the flesh in the right light of liberty, love and true virtuous living. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Comment: Those who drink the spirit of the law of sin and death will receive in their flesh the damnation of it's merciless justice.

Thank you for your input so far. You have both enlightened my perspective. It gives me much to think about. We might consider that fire and water are a means in which God's angels have appeared. Thus Christ Jesus would have obtained that ability to appear in these forms. 2Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; Comment: Scientifically fire is electricity and the human body is mostly made of water. Yet it is the small amount of fire that controls the nerve impulses of the body which enable us to have muscular response, think and reason. The synapse in the mind where a single chemical in the brain can regulate in an instant a cell in the fingernail. This is fire, this is electricity. Fire and water. How does this relate to the Bible? It is a scientific comparison to fire and water and how they combine to make life. Fire and water are part of the creation, these are angels and Christ is the head of the creation. The angels may actually embody these elements or they inhabit them but they have Biblically co-mingled with them to convey God's wonderful purpose.

There was also a spring of water at the top of mount Sinai in Moses' day. To me this spring of water signified the holy spirit occupying the mountain. Does that sound possible? Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Fire and water seem to be opposing forces in nature but they are both symbols used in the Bible relating to the holy spirit. Any thoughts? Was water the old testament spirit and fire the new testament spirit? Where water is an outside cleansing and fire is an inner purification? Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Could anyone please expound on their ideas on the Biblical significance and symbolic meaning of fire and water?

Acts 11:9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

The spirit of God is "holy" isn't it? :)