Hopefull

Horseshoe Bay in Bermuda. Pink sands, warm clear water, gentle swell, and colorful fish. I wish you could see it in the original. Also the South Shore Beach of Martha's Vinyard. Tempestous whitecaps, rocky, and salty spray. This was the beach of my childhood. Long Island beaches are beautiful- I especially love Long Beach- but as I am always working I very very rarely have had the pleasure of enjoying them.

C'mon, admit it--There IS something just a little bit creepy about such a cheerful dentist... I love many of the above mentioned Christmas arols but my all time favorite is a bell choir doing Carol of the Bells.

Is that your REAL name? hahahahaha happy birthday Frank. You really are almost too good to be true. Love, Hopefull

"Lack of self-esteem" is a term I heard quite often in my teen and pre-teen years. I had a father who was very critical, a mother who ignored me and a sister who manipulated me. (of course it is more complicated than that but that will do for here). My part in the family dymanics was that of the injured party which was at least as toxic a position as the other members in my immediate family. What good it would have done for me to say I don't give a crap what you think about me! As a young adult I had to work very very hard to get out of the "poor me's". Self pity is an old habit that I have eliminated for the most part. Ironically, after working so hard through counseling and other venues to heal and parent myself I went right back to my former insecurities in twi2 after getting my head messed with and am still working on it to this day. It is a fight to appear confident when you are not, concerned about others when your life seems to be falling apart, and civil when you want to scream or cry. Other than that I am usually pretty darn loveable. Hopefull

John Shroyer was WONDERFUL to me after I got kicked out of twi. Any experience I had with this group was great. Any experience I had with someone that went to CFF was great. Why can't some of you just let that be someone's opinion? Can't the posters that went be allowed to have a good time there? Your memories of twi hold such power over you, your bitterness really ....es all over someone's good time.

It's been 20 years this month that I was sent to Long Island as a WOW and here I still am!

As many here know, my real name is Hope. Many years ago I was in a conversation with a few co-workers about the movie Sleepless in Seattle and I was referred to as Hopeless in New York- I said life was hard enough without a negative nicname-- he called me Hopeless a few times then started calling me Hopefull because it is more appropriate to my personality and because I would not respond when he called me Hopeless, LOL! So I am used to being called Hopefull and when I found Waydale in late 1999 (or was it 1998- I can't remember!)it was a way to use my name but stay incognito for a time. The kitty, well I have 2 playful felines named Max and Simon. Thanks for asking, Kit Sober! [This message was edited by Hopefull on July 31, 2002 at 11:17.] [This message was edited by Hopefull on July 31, 2002 at 11:19.]

I felt the same way at a Joyce Meyers seminar last year. The music was GREAT, the teachings were fresh and inspired, and the whole atmosphere was one of...clean and crisp anticipation, that something GOOD was about to happen!

Glad it wasn't you that was screwed Dott, my mistake in not reading carefully enough! I mentioned the story to a girl at work who sometimes brings in her homemade goodies and she asked for the recipe. When I gave it to her she was excited to get it and said to say thanks! One quick tangent, doesn't a person have to sign the visa receipt and it would say 250? Hopefull (who is now a COW Ambassador, as she is attempts to spread *cookies over the world* one baker at a time)

Dott, you can call your Visa card company and explain it, they should be able to fight it for you. That is one of the bennies of using your charge card!

Smart is sexy. One more for the professor.

Bowtwi, I remember Loy's accusations in the beginning of the purge and knew it was bs at the time, I am glad and relieved to hear you are living well. You seem very very normal, that is quite a feat after what you have been though. Living well, you are right, so right. Loy will someday grieve for what he did to you and you are kind to not want to see it. I got in in 77, wanted to get married to a *believer*, FINALLY met one in 93 (which was an answer to prayer, that's another story) that pursued me in 94, recent pfal grad and all that-- A month after I bought my wedding dress and a week after I booked the catering hall in Feb. 1998 he was M & A'd. I was told my my bc to not only call off the wedding if I wanted to stay in twi but that I also had to M & A him for the next 6 months. I was supposed to tell him to go screw himself. That ultimatim was a blessing in disguise because it got me OUT. All my best wishes for a wonderful life for you and your son, and welcome to G.S. I am looking forward to your future posts. Hopefull

Not that I have any veto power at all, but if I did I would veto any forum that is gender exclusive. The Cigar Den - where manly men discuss manly topics and/or blow a lot of smoke. Hello Kitty - For the girls, and girl talk. The forum's name almost guarantees privacy from the guys. NO NO NO NO PLEASE GOD NO Some women HATE Oprah! Give me a cigar! I have to give you a lot of credit for originality Satori and I recognize that, unlike you I have nothing to contribute for the moment.

Hope said, I just want to clarify that I am not suggesting a 10 minute limit! I said, No limit is fine with me! Edited for trying to figure out how the quote thingy works...

I am considering becoming a follower of THE 5. Eveybody knows it is the odd number sequals that are the good ones.

LOL JBM you do have a point, I should have just said dads-- and moms that are dads (single parents). I didn't realize you were being tongue-in-cheek. Hell I always made fun of "sweetest day" in Ohio, never saw it anywhere else. Talk about a hallmark holiday, like valentine's day isn't enough? I stand corrected! But now that I think about it I did forget "step-dads"...

JBM, you asked... What about dads who are moms also? Well, ALL Dads are included on Father's day. Dads that are moms also deserve equal applause and recognizion for this on Mothers Day ! Hopefull

Happy Fathers day to all you dad's, moms, and moms who are dads also! You have my respect and admiration and deserve all the kudos you get today. I would also like to add herbalmike, grizzybear, arkieron,igotout, researchgeek, hillsbro, peruser, geo, fognavigator, and spitfire to that list. All my wishes for a wonderful day to you! I hope you spend today doing what you enjoy and that you are spoiled rotten today! Hopefull edited to add a dad ditto [This message was edited by Hopefull on June 16, 2002 at 11:34.] [This message was edited by Hopefull on June 16, 2002 at 11:52.]

I was pleased to see Wacky's post because as a married person without children, I often have had to deal with feelings of inadeqecy about my childless state it and wondering if I am a selfish person. I didn't read anything condescending about Wacky's post towards parents since I know her pretty well I can say that she and I both agree that being a parent is the worlds hardest job, And who, being a parent, in a public forum, would say anything negative about being a mom or dad? But since Wacky is a massage therapist it is likey that some worn out mommy or daddy might tell her what they would never tell anyone else. I am fortunate to have some friends- couples- none that were in twi, that I socialize with several times a year. Two couples have one child and another on the way, (and one father who is 48 is not too happy about it) another just had their third child, another had their third but the first had died, one couple has one child, and another couple is desperate to have one and is undergoing artifical insemination etc. I was the last of this group of become a couple- I have only been married since 9/98 --I was 38 and married a man I met in twi who is over 12 years my senior. We do not own a home, have no family here like my friends do, and do not forsee ever being able to stop working to raise a child. I am 42 now and he is 55- my husband does not want a child at this late time in his life. Plus he has been very ill in the past and could not work for year. And you parents, please don't tell me I can and should still have a child because I have not reached menopause, I have had to defend myself against that many many many times. I would have preferred to get married when I was younger and to have a child but things just didn't work out that they way for me. I am sometimes envious of my friends and their families and the fullness of their lives. One of the greatest things about not being in twi is that I no longer have to deal with the "I'm ok, you are not ok" bs. This is the first time I have read a post from someone who said "it is ok not to have children". I deal with guilt about this often and on mothers and fathers day which is just another day for us childless adults I am reminded on that I am not ok for not having children. I felt some relief at reading Wacky's post and some feeling of, you are ok on fathers day and frankly Ginger, I don't understand your defensive attitude and why you took it like Wacky was accusing you when she was clearly reaching out to the other childess people. And frankly, the ok feelings I had, well, you spoiled it for me. Hopefull

I am fine with an hour. I usually edit right after I post for grammer and spelling and only to to make my post less wordy. If I have "posters remorse" later on I will make it an addition to the thread. I feel for the dilemma HopeRich had regarding a post that was so radically changed so her appropriate response appeared to be overreacting, It wouldn't bother me if the editing time was longer as long as I get my chance to proofread. Just give me my 10 minutes and do what you want, Paw.

RICH You said...I liked that "one body", "one heart", "one mind" feeling. This makes me think about the ROA's of the late 70's early 80's and being under the big top tent. Thousands of good-hearted, altruistic folk singing from the blue book (before it changed to the brown book then back again). Voices swelling in glorious harmony to God, VPW swaying in the background, yes the worship was wonderful BUT BUT BUT...the FEELING you mentioned...it was such a high. Grizz you said this well, it is part of this feeling---We chose what we believed to be a high cause, heck we were lead to believe it was the Highest cause. We were young, healthy and had all the answers and were ready to share it with the world. Other times I would feel like I was on the outside looking in. I either had an "in or out" kind of experience at the ROA- some years I was more "in" the group than others. Today I feel too worn out and cynical to be in any kind of a group - nowadays I just try to be decent to people, be true to myself, and have a prayer life with a little humility. Although a spinoff is not for me I did have the need for SOMETHING because I felt sooo isolated and alone after twi. The answer to that? I am HERE aren't I? FULL

Good thread, Hope. It is only recently that I have begun to use the word "cult" to describe twi, but in using it I think of the twi that I left, not the twi that I joined up with in 1977. Think of the hordes of people that actually took piffle and later were free to consider that that it was time to move on. There was no "with us or against us" mentality until the early 90's - at least not that I felt at the twig level. What attracted me to twi was the light in the eyes of the people and speaking in tongues. Having read the gospel many times over (but not venturing into Acts)I was fascinated by the ability to do this and to have some sort of proof that Christianity is the real deal. I hesitated at the very thought of being likeminded and wanted to believe that I was still an independent thinker-- fortunately the people that were around me when I got in were all stubborn and intelligent folks. Later I bucked the system and argued against ignorance many times -- I won't bore you guys with the details but let's just say that I had a hard time buddying it up with the most waybrained folks cuz frankly, they were idiots. IMHO I love Linda's term, "high-demand religion" and I would put twi in that category pre-pop and even post-pop-- for most twi peons...up until the end of the wow program the roa and the beginning of wap classs and the purge etc. Then it was cult all the way, supreme loyalty, extortion of time and money, threats for non-compliance. But before that time, I see that the the belief system of our "high demand religion" became ever more narrow as the years went on, filled with a shared language and experiences. In considering this, I would have to say I became more "cult-like" in conforming myself to the behaviors of the group for acceptance, even if I did not agree with the teachings and practices. I was not afraid for my safety to leave twi, I was afraid of the ensuing isolation that would occur by severing myself to twi's apron strings. Who could I talk to in twi shorthand and who would there be to really understand me? What church could I ever fit into? I wanted what I was used to but I hated what it had become! I hated myself for becoming a person that was forced to play a part in order to stay. Isn't that cult-like behavior? I insisted upon getting my bachelors degree before going wow and I refused every opportunity to take the advanced class and would not consider applying to the corps or way college. I had even refused to take pfal right away, I was 6 months *in* before I felt I had to take "the class" to get all my quesitons answered. It must have seemed selfish of me to have no ambition and insist upon my peon status, but I was afraid go into the "inner" circle of twi and I really felt that God worked best one-on-one and and not in a political/competitive situation. I also did not regularly tithe because I suspected that twi was self-serving as I never heard of "The Way" help anyone financially. Although I fought against likemindedness, by the time I was no longer welcome my sense of self was so tied into twi that the pain of separation seemed excrutiating at times, like divorce. In this respect, I do not feel that I joined a cult but I did become a cult member. Lots of food for thought here. Edited twice for grammer and spelling [This message was edited by Hopefull on June 14, 2002 at 13:29.] [This message was edited by Hopefull on June 14, 2002 at 13:33.]

I just want to make my presence known and see if the chairs are comfy.