penworks

oh well...he was just doing his job...

A little more of the story behind the making of the Aramaic Interlinear (not the Concordance published in Aug. 1985, but the Translation which came afterwards): I seem to be a good example of a practice often conducted at TWI: "being hired not on the basis of ability" but of commitment to the org. Invited to be on the research team from 1984-87, I came on board with no college degree, no formal training in research methods or languages of the texts, other than in-house Aramaic classes taught to the Way Corps and some Aramaic tasks I had helped with over the years. But to say I was competent to actually produce a translation of the N.T. is ridiculous. When Joe Wise, who WAS competent and had earned his degree from the Univ. of Chicago in Near Eastern Studies, and who was responsible for the translation was fired from that task in 1986 with the reason being "too academic," I went to W@lter Cum@ins and asked about this, greatly dismayed and upset about this out-of-nowhere decision (this is an understatement). W. Cum@ins said it was LCM's "order." I asked who would finish it! He then looked at me and in complete seriousness said, "I was thinking you could finish it." After I recovered my composure from a hearty laugh, I realized he was not laughing. I had to explain I did not have the expertise to handle such a task, I had no training in such a complicated undertaking as translating! The odd and shocking thing was, W. Cum@ins had known me since 1970 and was very familiar with my skill level. It seems that competency was not always favored over assumed loyalty to TWI. After I resigned, another Corps grad came in off the field to finish the interlinear. Today, he continues VPW's research methods and teachings, etc. and runs a TWI offshoot in the D.C. area...

All of the above posts contain very good advice, in my view. This discussion is very important for a lot of people. Tazia, I could not agree more that offshoot groups cannot provide the breathing space many people need to escape "TWI-think." You mentioned one of the major ways I also conducted my post-TWI journey of growth - education, including work by Bart Erhman. Thinking back on what I needed most during my first few months after leaving TWI, I see I primarily needed someone to just listen to me. I needed a safe place to speak my mind about what happened to me and why I left, etc. In 1987 (ancient times before the internet), I had only a couple of people I trusted with my heart, and they were geographically far from me. Counselors were pretty in the dark about cult like fundamentalists groups then, although there was one group called Fundamentalists Anonymous but I didn't contact them. I trusted few people. I for sure knew an TWI offshoot group was not my remedy (the first big one was starting up and run by John Lynn, etc.) Why? Because they weren't addressing the reasons why I left (research related.) I'd just add this note to those thinking of leaving or fresh out - Give yourself a chance to be alone with your thoughts, go for long walks, and if you are inclined, keep a journal to sort out those thoughts, too. Your time alone with the Creator, no matter what you call it or don't call it, is your own. Don't think for a minute that our spiritual, intellectual, and emotional lives are not our own to cherish - they are. Luckily we still live in a country that offers a way to enjoy these freedoms. Lastly, I'll offer this quote that, although gloomy-sounding, may shed light on this topic: "We do not receive wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can make for us, which no one else can spare us." Marcel Proust Peace and best wishes, Charlene Lamy (Bishop) Edge Former Way Corps 2

Sounds like a TWI carry over to me, too. I am a prime example of this "being hired not on the basis of ability" but of commitment to the org. Invited to be on the research team from 1984-87, I came on board with no college degree, no formal training in research methods or languages of the texts, other than in-house Aramaic classes taught to the Way Corps and some Aramaic tasks I had helped with over the years. But to say I was competent to actually produce a translation of the N.T. is ridiculous. When Joe Wise, who WAS competent and had earned his degree from the Univ. of Chicago in Near Eastern Studies, was fired from that task in 1986 with the reason being "too academic," I went to W@lter Cum@ins and asked about this, greatly dismayed and upset about this out-of-nowhere decision (this is an understatement). W. Cum@ins looked at me and in complete seriousness said, "I was thinking you could finish it." After I recovered my composure from a hearty laugh, I realized he was not laughing. I had to explain I did not have the expertise to handle such a task, I had no training in such a complicated undertaking of translating! The odd and shocking thing was, W. Cum@ins had known me since 1970 and was very familiar with my skill level. It seems that competency was not always favored over assumed loyalty to TWI. After I resigned, another Corps grad came in off the field to finish the interlinear. Today, he continues VPW's research methods, etc. and runs a TWI offshoot in the D.C. area...

Thanks again to taxicab for providing the link to the Rachel Maddow report, which includes an interview with the author of, Crazy for God. It speaks to a major problem in this country - as I see it - of overzealous evangelizing and often reckless and offensive application of Bible verses to current-day events. This sort of interpretation denies the historical context of the verses and drags them into the 21st century, which in my view, is inappropriate. Another example appeared in the newspaper, USA Today, this past Monday, Oct. 12, 2009, on page 11A by Tom Krattenmaker (yeah, I collect such articles) titled, "And I'd like to thank God Almighty." It covers the story of Tim Tebow's promotion of his brand of Christianity to the point of disrespecting other players' (and anyone else's) beliefs. "Tebow does his missionary trips to the Philippines under the auspices of his father's Bob Tebow Evangelistic Association. The Tebow organization espouses a far-right theology. Its bottom line: Only those who assent to its version of Christianity will avoid eternal punishment. The ministry boldy declares, 'We reject the modern ecumenical movement.'" Unfortunately, until more Christians become aware of the history of own their religion (including an understanding of the multitude of beliefs floated in the first couple of centuries after the reports of Jesus's death and resurrection) and how these various Christ-focused movements influenced each other, this sort of religious bigotry will continue. It's the stuff "Holy wars" were/are made of. It's the grist for dividing humanity, not uniting or comforting people. Plenty of information is available. Public libraries are a good place to start. And it wouldn't hurt to become a little more educated about other religions, too. We might be surprised at what things they have in common. I also say let's pay more attention to making our behaviors more productive and caring of others and be less concerned about promoting many "beliefs" we can never prove one way or another anyway, no matter what our religion - or lack of it - might be. Cheers and enjoy your day. It's a gift to be alive, isn't it?

Okay, mstar1, do you want to bring the coat hangers? George, the marshmellows? Bramble the graham crackers? I'll bring the Hershey bars...

Hi everyone, This is Charlene (Bishop) Edge, former Research Team member 1984-1986 (Aramaic projects). The discussion Skyrider cites can be found at this GSC topic, "what scripture refers to" at: VPW research methods

Dear Minicorpse, I, too, thank you for writing your story here and am deeply saddened by what happened to you by people who claimed to love you. You are brave. I admire you and cheer you on in your recovery! Charlene a.k.a. Penworks here at GSC

Today I can add another name of a contributor to the work on the Aramaic Concordance: Gertrude Paulson. 8th Corps graduate.

Dear JT, Thanks for your comment. I'm glad you enjoy using the Interlinear, although I think we're talking about two different publications. You are referring to the Interlinear, I'm talking about the Concordance. The Concordance was not the translation of the N.T. but the other one-book publication that came out in 1985 several years before the line-by-line Interlinear translation that you have in several volumes. It's like Strong's or Young's Concordance that lists words, their definition, and where they appear in the text. There's a companion volumne that is English to Syriac (Aramaic) that we also produced that would help people use the Concordance. Now, the translation that appears in the Interlinear you have began in full force after the Concordance came out in August 1985. Joe Wise did all the translation for it except of the Book of Revelation. I only helped in minor ways by checking and editing a little bit. So why did he stop at the Book of Revelation in the translation for the Interlinear? In March 1986 LCM told Walter Cummins to tell Joe he must discontinue working on the project; that as of August 1986 he would no longer have a job at HQ because he was "too academic." At the time, the ministry was in an uproar after Chris Geer read his Passing of the Patriarch in April and everything was being - how would you say - challenged? In my opinion, this was a terrible mistake. Keep in mind, this is my view of what happened. But I was in the research dept. from Aug 1984- Aug 1986 and worked on this project. When Joe had to leave in August 1986, I resigned from research. This is a long story I do not plan to write on this web site. Suffice it to say, another Corps grad was brought on staff to finish the translation for the Interlinear. I personally do not know whether that person made any changes to the translation that Joe had already written. So the lawsuit cited at the beginning of this post that TWI is bringing against the group in Texas asserts that they stole the translation (the one you have in several volumes) that we originally worked on. What that final translation that was published contains exactly, I do not know because I was not there to see whether the other Corps person who came after us changed Joe's translation or not. And I do not have a copy of Joe's original translation. Hope this clarifies things for you. Contact me any time.

Editorial comment on my original post's comments on the first page: I covered many topics in that post. Reviewing it now, it's clear I covered too many. I failed to explain each one enough. Please keep in mind I do not always do my best writing when I'm addressing emotionally charged topics, so in retrospect I'd try and not to come off so snippy in some of my remarks. I apologize for the tone of it in some places, but that does not mean I do not stand by my opinions or my views. Karen Armstrong said something that I try to keep in mind when I speak or write, but I am guilty of doing it over and over. She said something like, "Some people would rather be right than compassionate." I do not want to be one of those people. My hope is to become a person who can do both at the same time. It ain't always easy. Cheers, Charlene L. Edge a.k.a. Penworks ps - Today, in the thread "A New Lawsuit" I gave my name and will from now on.

I'm writing this additional bit to clarify what I said above. First, I'd like to say my name is Charlene Edge. While in The Way, my maiden name was Charlene Lamy; my married name was Charlene Bishop. I graduated from the Second Way Corps in 1973. Credits: In the above post, I did not state the names of those who worked on the this Concordance because I did not feel comfortable doing so. My reason was NOT because they are trying to hide their identities or are not proud of their work. On the contrary! It is a work to be proud of! I simply did not have their consent on hand to name them. First, many of us know that Bernita Jess began the Aramaic/Syriac work for The Way in the early 1970s. Over the years, beginning in 1972 while in the Way Corps when VPW assigned me to work with Bernita, I began to help her in minor ways. As the Corps groups grew in numbers, so did Bernita's helpers. The Concordance published in August 1985. By this time, the primary person responsible for bringing this Concordance to completion was Joe Wise, an 8th Way Corps graduate. He told me I could release his name here. Joe earned his Masters Degree in Near Eastern Studies from the University of Chicago, gaining this specific academic training in order to work on the Aramaic/Syriac projects at The Way International. An article came out in The Way Magazine, July/August 1985 that describes the project and states the names of contributors. Frankly, it was painful to find out that so many people, both in and out of The Way, do not know who is responsible for that research publication other than the fact that The Way International published it. To the best of my remembrance, The Way ministry put no names on their book publications other than VPW's or Walter Cummins's, at least while I was there. In the front matter of the Concordance, it simply states, "Edited by The Way International Research Team." Since members of the team changed over the years, no one would know which members did the work. A little more background: About a year before its publication, Bernita had some family issues that took her away from the project for awhile, namely the unfortunate death of her husband, George Jess. Then Joe Wise, because of his academic training and ability, assumed the leading role. I hope this helps the discussion. You can contact me through my profile on this web site if you have any further questions. Cheers! Charlene a.k.a. Penworks

Wow.

Wow.

Since 1987.

Dear Bishop, My intention is to show that nostalgia for the "old days" does not serve us well. Also, I hoped to point out what many people miss and that is: that the foundation of the TWI/offshoot groups is Fundamentalism. If people don't know that, it sometimes makes it harder to understand the experience. Understanding my experience and creating a new life - not thinking "the old days" were so good when they were built on a faulty foundation which I think Fundamentalism provides - was my intention in this post. If you feel your experience was good for you, great. For many others theirs was not. Mine was a mix. Sometimes it helps to know more information that can clear up foggy issues about the past. For me, understanding Fundamentalism was a huge relief...it made it possible for me to explore more of the history of the kind of thinking and the kind of bible study I had been caught up in. That system puts people at a disadavantage by keeping them locked in from considering other valid and wonderful ways of being in the world. These are only a few of my many thoughts on this, so I feel it's best to let this go for now. If you are interested, I would be happy to provide you with some book titles on the subject. I wish you the best in your journey. It's yours. Cherish it. Peace, Penworks

Thanks for this well put explanation. It surely is important to remember that many younger people are vulnerable during transition times...I'll dare say people at any age in various stages of change are especially vulnerable. My story is a little like what you described...in college, away from home, looking for answers, etc. While in TWI, in regards to methods for witnessing: I remember being encouraged to check newspaper obituaries and contact the families of the deceased. The reason: they would need to know the truth about death, etc. and so might be very open to taking PFAL. Their obvious vulnerability was a red flag. Their broken hearts feed for preying upon. I shudder to remember such things. I never followed that marketing advice, thank goodness. It was and is a repulsive and inhumane idea to me.

The auditorium was still being built when I got to HQ in August 1984.

Thanks for the comment but I have a question: does possessing a gun and using it to intimidate, as you say, mean a person is violent or has the potential for being violent? I don't doubt that there were some gun toting folks, waysider; I knew of certain bodyguards back in 1976-1977 who carried firearms to protect VP when a bunch of us went to Minnesota for a meeting. Now if my friend had asked whether TWI PROMOTES violence publically as part of their dogma which thinking back on the context of our conversation is really what she meant, my "No" seems accurate not only regarding "the old VP days" but also for the version of TWI that exists today. I do remember there were teachings (1970-1987) that included something like this: If we lived in Old Testament times, we could execute the unbelievers like Israel did. I find that alarming and disgusting at best. On TV I hear similar allusions cited on the fundamentalist/evangelist megachurch channels. Tomorrow is Sunday...maybe I'll tune in and get a few examples...maybe I won't. I have other things to do.

Today a friend of mine asked me why anyone who never heard of The Way (she was one before she met me) would care about what goes on in groups like that...are they violent? No, I said. Should I be afraid of them? she wondered. Well, that depends on a lot of things... Her questions gave me pause. She asked me whether this group or groups like it were extreme like the Islamic Extremists she sees on T.V. Well, I said, the same kind of extreme us vs. them thinking goes on, and there are some extreme ideas about theology and behavior modification techniques, and other features you find in cults. But personally I never heard violence promoted in twi, although others say they did. Some members also witnessed some gun waving (I didn't)and I experienced emotional and verbal violence. I'm still thinking of ways to answer her initial question about whether she should fear them...I personally think since she's educated about cults she shouldn't...but then, if enough extremists register to vote and gain politial power to make decisions that affect the rest of us, well...then... Anyhow, there's a web site called T.E.D. I go to for "ideas worth spreading." I came across this one about violence and thought some of you might find it pertinent to this topic. Enjoy. I tried to embed the video but that feature didn't work. Here's the link.

It means he still palms himself off as the last true defender of the true VP doctrine...

Good grief. Another offshoot. I remember this guy. This just is another example of the downside of religious freedom in this country...start a non-profit (although looks like a for-profit outfit) and you too can "hold forth" your version of The Word. What's the answer to this madness? Education. Education. Education. But that takes time and effort. Few seem to want to make that investment.

"Just seems like very few SHOUT FROM THE HOUSETOPS the twisting of scripture, the deceitful doctrines, the lewd behavior, the secret agendas, the wierwille idolatry, the pyramid of power, the raping and abortions, the wholesale plagiarism, the cult mentality and isolation, the use and abuse of way corps, the grooming of lcm/geer in the image of wierwille, etc.. How many splinter groups/ wierwille-imposters are there nowadays, anyway>??????" Penworks response: One is too many.

Yes, I remember it when it was built. How could I forget it? I was there opening night. Oh the drama. It originally was supposed to have a research library in it but that got scrapped. I noticed huge paintings of VP in there on the wall, though. I remember the Corps night we got locked in there to listen to Chris Geer spout his stuff he said that VP said that he said ...blah blah blah I remember the gross Athletes of the Spirit performance on that high priced technical stage. I remember the ... oh forget it.

Well I suspect it might be more complicated than that. I don't think the human mind is as strong as we'd like to believe. There was some pretty intense indoctrination going on even with adults. Over the years I've thought about those adults (over 35 yrs. old :-) who got involved while I was in. That was 1970-1987. There were several entire families in together; some of the parents ended up in the Corps. Because of their presence, I've hesitated to say it would be easier to spot falacies in logic, etc. if we'd been older. Older doesn't seem to matter. There were highly skilled professionals active in the ministry: i.e. a surgeon, teachers, etc. and even in the second Corps someone over 30 had a PhD in Literature! In my view, whatever deep needs people had in their hearts, no matter what their age (and there were plenty of old timers around by the time I left) drew them to TWI and kept them there. Most of us have heard this before: the need for belonging, for simple answers from the Bible which was held to be the Word of God, etc. People's particular needs combined with the certainty of answers given spells committment to the one handing out the answers, it seems... If you think comments made here are missing, I guess you need to contact the administrators. It's okay with me if you want to send the post to someone to help them out.