DontWorryBeHappy

In an effort to NOT derail the balaam and twi thread, which, btw is an "easily entreated" scripture lesson finely crafted by WordWolf (thanks WW)...........i opted to start this new thread on FORGIVENESS...........A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far, away, i had the opportunity to "publicly expound" the scriptures on this topic.......since that time, it has become an issue of great practical import not only for me, but also for many folks here forced to deal with the myriad questions this topic has brought to the fore......i am going to posit some of my own thoughts and hope to evoke those of others who navigate through this cafe..........i am hoping for considered, respectful dialogue.............i have no desire to cast aspersions, nor do i wish to encourage rambling, closeminded "epistles" from those who seem to be on a crusade of apologetics for the egregious misdeeds of VP, LCM, CG, HA, DEW, ROSIE, DONNA, TWI and nit's 'OFFSHOOTS'.(phew!....does that cover everybody??)...........i honestly just want to know your thoughts and feelings concerning the understanding and application of forgivness......... Having been placed in the unfortunate position of the "man who knew too much" regarding the egregious misdeeds of the aforementioned "leaders", many posters here have been faced with arguments put forward by those who insist that it is our responsibility "before god" to forgive these men and women. who have, IMO, so profoundly wronged so many innocents in the "household of faith".........we have been accused of being "too angry", too bitter", "too spiteful", etc.,...thus preventing ourselves from being able to faithfully execute the admonitions of God and His Sonto 'FORGIVE' those "leaders" for their multitude of errors and sins..........i find such accusations to be misguided and viscerally self-serving for those who coldly and blindly hurl them our way...........rather than simply reading the scriptures (such as those presented by WW) or listening to the facts from scores of people who supply honest, gut-wrenching, self-revealing firsthand accounts...(not "hearsay").......these "protectors" reflexively insist upon redirecting the scriptures and misappropriating the facts right back at the victims in an effort to continue the whitewashing cover-up of the horrors perpetrated by their personal heroes............by attacking the victims they try to ignore the obvious and proveableguilt of whichever one of their "idols" they're tying to protect.......they so no responsibility on the part of their "idols" to repent of their sins, apologize, confess,or even ask for forgiveness.......instead, the responsibility for action is flipped right back on the victims who are now responsible to forgive the offenders without so much as even a hint of sorrow or contition from gulty!......... My question t them is this: "how can i grant forgiveness to someone who vehemently denies he/she committed any offense?".from what i can see, god has no problem forgiving anyone for anything if that person chooses to repent.....this process of repentance seems to precede god's granting of forgiveness.........as a matter of fact, it seems to me that forgiveness is predicated upon repentance..........meaning that without an acto of the will and mind admitting to an offense, and then repenting of said offense, foregiveness CANNOT be granted!......now as far as man's vertical relationship with god goes, repentance and forgiveness seems to be a "2-way street".........i.e., man repents...god forgives.........am i then right in assuming that in man's dealings with his fellow man, forgiveness is also a "2-wat street"???if i wrong someone or sin against him/her, how can that person forgive me if i never APOLOGIZE?.....if i deny any wrongdoing, i will refuse to apologize don't i?.....if i refuse to accept responsibility for my actions, i will never feel the need for forgiveness, since, in my mind, i never did anything wrong!......why do i nedd to apologize and ask for forgiveness if i never did anything wrong???.................... I read a post on another thread where someone menioned that a friend of their's went to visit martindale at his current abode in toledo, oh.and reported back that the former 2nd prez of twi still does'nt think he did anything wrong!......obviously!......he's never apologized to anyone he's wronged because he's convincerd that he has'nt done anything wrong!....even though he must have confessed to something in order for the allens to have won their case against him via out-of-court settlement........he still does'nt think he did anything wrong??!!!........is this how the sexual predators in the roman catholic church have been dealt with recently??......have any been convicted and gone to jail?.........have any gone to tial and lost?.......did the wronged individuals and congregations simply forgive them all in absentia and let them go on their merry, molesting way?............... With all the abundance oif "rightly divided present truth"...(sic!).....twi claims to possess, they can't even manage to come up to the level of the roman catholic church when it comes to such matters?.......(which church by the way, they have ridiculed and criticized for years....run by "seed boyz" after all!)........if martindale et al never did anything wrong why avoid a trial by jury?...........who were they sparing in their cowardly out-of-court settlement?......the "ministry" or themselves?........any of you victims ever receive an apology from any of them for sexually molesting you?........any of those great "leaders" ask you to forgive them?.....i have no doubt that most, if not all of those who were victimized by them , would forgive them if they apologized and asked for forgiveness......but have any of these great spiritual "leaders" ever apologized or asked for forgiveness?..................if i raped your wife, never repented, never apologized, never asked for forgiveness and then told you she was a "possessed loser" to boot.would you forgive me oldiesman???......what if it was your daughter?.... To quote dr. martin luther king jr., "the arc of the universe isd long but it bends toward justice" and, "justice too long delayed is justice denied"...........IS GOD A GOD OF JUSTICE??... i think so!.....would the father of justice demand from his kids their blind acceptance of injustice at the hands of their brothers or sisters?......i think not!........... I believe in the god of justice.......i also believe that "what goes around comes around"..............i believe in forgiveness too............but the same way my heavenly father does...........throough the act of genuine repentance................soooo.................VP, LCM, CG, HA.\, DEW, ROSIE, DONNA, TWI and all you "OFFSHOOTS".......YOU OWE GOD AN APOLOGY.........YOU OWE US AN APOLOGY................THEN WE'LL FORGIVE YOU ALL...............peace be unto you.......

yo!....bro!....................HAPPY BIRTHDAY GOMEZ!..........i bet that les paul does'nt look as big on you as it does on that kid from the previous post!......hehehe..........you still have your les paul?........love ya dude!..........

Hi All!.............Jim.............he'll be easy to "spot"............he'll be the one in the bright orange, spandex jumpsuit............but, they've changed the name from paint dept. to "the Whitewash Dept.".....and you'll be able to buy the stuff with or without the accompanying debbil spurts.......but, remember....cash only!....no credit/debit......................