DontWorryBeHappy

thanks fort the post polar bear!...........Mike.........hello!......i'm a newbie here, so please forgive me if i am not familiar with all that you have posted here previoulsy.....i certainly don't want to encourage you to have to "rehash" what you may have posted here before, nor do i wish to jeopardize your posting agreement with our venerable host.......so, i will try to limit this post to 2 issues you've raised in this thread so far. #1)"the lack of clothing (accurate memory of the written teaching)"..........#2)"we need to look at the actual history, the facts of what we were taught" Most of what i will state here will be firsthand, eyewitness accounts...that is.....i was personally present at the events i may recount here, and am therefore not resorting to "hearsay"..........for accounts pre-dating my actual involvement in twi, i will rely on quotes from those who were there of from information gathered from my many conversations with the former "official historian" of twi, assigned by vp himself.....back in the days when we actually had someone in that position!! I am assuming that when you say "the written teaching", you are referring to the writings of vpw,....i.e., his books, way mag articles, studies in abundant living, etc.......unfortunately, you may not be aware of the FACT that vp wierwille was at best a very poor writer with very poor writing skills..........he told this to me personally during a visit we made to his alma mater in sheboygan, WI in the fall of 1973.....vic, dotsie and some of us early way productions folks (feel free to contact dean, richie d., claudettee and ken mc.,...who were also there)... were attending the homecoming football game and he said to me, "i was never a good writer. teaching people live is my strength. i thank god for tape son! (laughs)".......mike.....NOT ONE OF VP'S "WRITTEN WORKS" WAS EVER WRITTEN DOWN BY VP!!........rather, they all started out as the written works of others.......( j.e. stiles, b.g. leonard, bullinger, etc.)...........or as transcripts made of teachings or other live presentations vic gave at various times and locations.....as you may or may not know,.....tape was ALWAYS running whenever and wherever "the teacher" spoke unles he gave orders to "cut the tape").........he told us in sheboygan that he "lacked the mental discipline" he needed to write effectually........this mental "laziness" dates all the way back to the days of the chimes hour youth caravan broadcasts ..(which were recorded......some later transcribed). Donna Randall was the real "ghostwriter" of all vic's books up until jcop.......she was vic's personal and research secretary for many years up until certain events that led to her resignation during the AC '79 in athens, oh..........a not-so-auspicious event buried in the busyness of twi times back then!.........donna would type out whatever recorded teachings or meetings vic wanted to make a book or article out of.....and she would actually edit them and put them in a readable written form for him.......then he would review what donna had transcribed and editted......maybe get the research team together (cummins, bernita jess, donna herself, and various "understudies" from the in-rez corps of the aforementioned, along with assorted other invited guests......ALWAYS having every such session taped)..... and discuss, review, research, "debate" the verses or topics....and then have donna "put together" the final product..........for one final review. Donna Randall was quite a scholar in her own right......she taught the early corps' english every week during our first year in rez......everything from basic english grammar and syntax to business writing and communication........she also was adept in koine greek and the use of greek lexical aids to the bible........she co-developed with cummins a class called "research writing and design" which was to form the basis and format of each individual corps member's research project, which was supposed to be a "master's level thesis" prepared by each corps member and required for graduation. Even vic's account of how he "locked himself in a hotel room in van wert for a week "in order to "put together" the first "holy spirit book"...(RTHST)....is pure HYPERBOLE!..........all he actually did was lay out j.e.stiles' book page by page and then have rhoda becker (his church secretary back then).....type out each page of vic's "book" with some minor changes which he DICTATED TO HER ......and then put it in the old printing press!..........i have acually laid out photocopies of stiles' book page by page next to photocopies of the first edition of RTHST........have you mike??.....if you have, then you know that they are almost identical from start to finish!!.......that's why there were so many subsequent editions of RTHST..... (7 by the time i left twi)......because when vic had donna's expertise available to him, he quickly dumped rhoda for the new and vastly improved model!!.......once this "writing" process was complete, after final edit and review by the research team, american christian press put out the final product! This , in a nutshell, is the process, "the actual history, the facts"....."of the written teaching" which you seem to place so much credence in, mike........if you choose to hold vic's "written works" in the same esteem as you hold the bible, that's fine!.........your choice!.......but please be advised......VIC DID NOT WRITE ANY OF HIS BOOKS!!.......he basically dictated them all by the process i just described. this post is already too long!!.....sorry......but rest assured mike and oldiesman........there are plenty more FACTS i can recount for you....... in detail how the research team "wrote" all vic's books......but , perhaps that should be a separate thread.....we've already derailed this one!....sorry pb!!........but, i'll even be willing to tell you who else was there at some of those sessions.....some living some dead......feel free to contact those still living and see if these are the FACTS!!......most are still alive and you can contact them yourself to verify what i've posted here or may yet post in that "thread yet to come". In the meantime, before you condemn the "clothing" choices of other posters here at the spot.........check your mirror mike.......what fashion statement are you making??.........what clothes are you wearing mike??..........or not wearing??..................peace.

hey all you greasespotters!!!!.......still lmao here!!........what a wonderful service you are providing for the revised sing along the way!!!........hope you're listening rosie, et al!!!.............still laughing as i sing along the way!!!.............peace!

hey there skyrider!.....thanks for the interesting post!!........vic never claimed to be good at math!!.......certainly a ''poor historian" too!!.........no one ever told him the art of deception was gonna be easy, eh?..................peace.

HEY THERE ROSIE!!.......lotsa great suggestions so far, no??............here's my suggestions for your special 65th anniversary teaching topics and teachers........please note that there are 7 of them.....in order to keep your anniversary teaching schedule "spiritually perfect"!.......hope you're nice and relaxed out there in foxhaven!! HOW TO KEEP YOUR SEPULCHRES WHITED USING MINIMAL PAINT-----for wap grads only......taught by twi destroyers...(formerly way builders). IS THERE REALLY NO PI IN TWI?-----The arguments for and against NO PI.....( or Private Interpretation vs Penile Insertion).......taught by our own twi research dept. coordinator!.......to be announced. BIBLICAL KEYS TO AVOIDING JAIL TIME FOR SERIAL SEXUAL PREDATION.......special guest appearance by "the great establisher" of this formerly secret doctrine, former dancing 2nd president......the bartlesville baller himself.......loy craig martindale!!.............(for advanced class grads only!). By special request....for T-Bone Greasespot: SPIRITUAL PREPARATION FOR BECOMING A MEMBER of the BOT HOUSEHOLD-----NO MANTLE REQUIRED!-----Principles on how to work and re-work god's word in order to become a bona fide lying, thieving weasel!..........by rosie "the fox" rivenbite......she don't just bark folks!! HOW TO GET DIVORCED WITHOUT GETTING MARKED AND AVOIDED----learn the exciting truths on how to accomplish this amazing feat of believing behind the walls of zion while maintaining your residence and income at our beloved headquarters!!.........by donna martindale...."ex" second first lady of twi! CHOOSING THE BEST A/V EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS FOR YOUR WAP CLASSES-----Special presentation of the archived visual aids used in vic's original christian family and sex seminar!........by our owned Joe Co--ter!!......don't miss the surprise showing of that video classic "the triumph of rin tin tin"!! ADVANCED CLASS SPECIAL.....DEALING FOR THE ADVERSARY-----Learn how we've learned to "persist until we succeed" at truth and reality avoidance for the past 65 years!!.......a symposium on the revelation manifestations by our new and expanded crew of vice presidents!! happy 65th anniversary rosie!!

hey Out There!!...........sorry........you're still way too nice to be trustee material yet...........otherwise you would'nt even ask the question........you'd just presume yourself into that ole trustee household!!!........you still seem to have quite a way to go to reach bona fide lyin', thievin', weasel status!!!!..........but, i'm sure rosie's looking for some fresh "new meat" behind dem walls of zion.........are you debt-free??

Word in business suggestions....... 5 guilt-free ways to rip-off your fellow christians. "why i am qualified to be the ceo of any fortune 500 corporation".......an interpretive dance by our beloved "triple threat" (stumble, bumble and fumble) dancing 2nd prez, L(oada) C(rap) martindale. How to cook your books.......exclusive new information from some recently discovered ancient manuscripts of the book of numbers. Shameless begging made easy........practical keys on raising corps tuition.......sign up now for a free copy of our mailing list before it shrinks into non-existence! How to ruin your life by becoming debt-free.........special appearance by twi's leading economic advisor, alfred e. neumann. Starting your very own 501©3 corporation.....using unscrupulous and unscriptural strategies, you'll learn how to extort 15% or more of your followers' gross incomes without ever paying taxes yourself!!......special bonus strategies on convincing followers to hand over valuable family inheritances to you and your fellow "trustees"!!..........(please note:this session is closed to the irs and all other government agencies!) Also, available for the first time, in honor of our 65th........our newst publication "lying, thieving weasels: a brief history of twi's trustees from 1942-2007.........enjoy 65 years of BS as only your trustees can dish out!!

OK......good start.......but we've only got 2 weeks to get it together.............so........keep it flowing.......'' like a river"....or two,....sunesis......hehe...... Good point outthere.........get the research team together........i'm sure we can find a text somewhere where cleanliness IS next to godliness!!........it's just got to be there ....."in the original".............post on greasespotters!!

HI EVERYONE!! Due to "popular demand"........and a VERY OBVIOUS NEED that even the most cursory visit to twi's official website will expose.........some of us greasespotters have come up with a gift idea for the cult that has everything!!.......here's a suggestion for rosie for the october 2007 theme of the month for twi....hot off socks' washer/dryer: CLEANLINESS IS NEXT TO GODLINESS: CELEBRATING 65 YEARS OF TWI DIRT FOR "THE GLORY OF GOD AND THE ACCURACY OF HIS WORD"! We need suggestions for everything necessary to put on a real "DOO" for twi's 65th so rosie can relax a little............suggestions needed: order of service (song, etc), teachers and teaching topics; way productions numbers; physical set-up: policies and procedures; menu; schedule of events; ettiquette and protocol; travel and housing; waywoods and motorcoach events;word in business, and, divine design..... Our heart is to really "pull out all the stops" so as to really rock the promised land with present and ancient truth!!.......one of my "first thoughts" was regarding the numerical significance of the number 65......65 long years of wayness........the number 65 is the product of 5 x 13.............obviously, god's grace extended to all those rebellious souls out there whose lives have been touched by twi through the years!! So come on all you wonderful saints and sinners!!......join the planning party here at the spot and let's help rosie and the gang put on the greatest anniversary celebration since the dropping of the mantle in '82!!......twi lurkers and offshooters are encouraged to participate!......let's have some good clean fun!!!...........peace.

aha........well if bri bri is as good at working with "human resources" as boob and doody......there should be quite a turnover in the promised land........rotten gene pool......

what?.....running the kitchen?????.......food services?......does c--le still do that?

yeah.....long overdo........actually october will be the 65th.........off by 10 years........oh well.......just 10 more years of torture!!!.....lol.....

hey there wrdsandwrks.........i was referring to the 65th anniversary of rosie's outfit coming up this october..........

LOL!!!........now i understand why rosie wants all her people to stay off this dang internet!!!!!........they should be posting a link from their site to this thread and learn a little about the "practical application".......no?? Yo!.......Rosie!.......does this mean you've forgiven all of us greasespotters?......can we visit you now at the home where we spent years of our lives and millions of our dollars building your headquarters???.........can we visit our relatves buried in your woods without linder's gestapo running us off???........are you giving us a clean slate??? I know your 65th is coming up???......you gonna ask us to forgive you for raping and plundering the many thousands of us that you so lovingly "marked and avoided" after we gave our "utmost for his highest"???.......maybe you'll forgive your former dancing president and let him back inside the walls of your promised land to conjure up some more present truth to continue your ministry of whited sepulchres????? can't wait for your posted reply rosie!!.....really looking forward to your apologies.......or have they all been settled out of court too???..............just wondering........god's best to you all.........can't wait to hear from you..........

Yo!....Socks!.............got some time on your hands, eh???.......thanks for the info......i find it pretty useless.....LOL!.......love ya......

Thankgod..........you were very polite and honest.......not mean at all... I had a neighbor in my first house after twi.....with whom i am still in love and in touch with to this day......who is a real salt-o-the-earth kinda archie bunker type....who always invited the jw's into his kitchen to discuss the bible with them......he is a roman catholic who goes to church every sunday.......he would always invite them in every time they came into the neighborhood, his wife, another wonderful salt-o'-the earth person, would fix them lunch or snacks while k would pour himself a couple of 7 and 7's (always offering his guests some) and dutifully hear them out......he kept a list of questions for them.....to which list i often contributed......and would fill me in on their answers........i am laughing as i type this.........to me it was a great service to the neighborhood, because he kept them there at his house for 3-5 hours every time they came....wearing them out and thus sparing the rest of the neighborhood!!!.....lol........i'll always be grateful to him for that!!!

Hi folks!......back for some espresso today.....thanks again to all who have contributed to this thread........it has become a really nice "read" so far and refreshingly stimulating......that's why i'm having the espresso today..........hehehe. wrdsandwrks......."this is not just a twi issue. so many christians have been hurt and wounded and betrayed by leaders they once trusted so many christians still have 'the bullets' of past hurt inside and never step into the supernatural power of god to heal, physically, mentally and spiritually".....eloquent and poignant post wrdsandwrks.........not only is this not "just a twi issue", it's not just a christian issue either!.....it's an issue for all human beings which transects all religions and non-religiions.......it is a human life issue..and, yes,....unfortunately , millions of "bullets" have gone unremoved and fester still in so many lives. i have long thought that christians who seek to do the things our lord did and carry on in his teachings have a distinct responsibility to bear the good fruit of god's holy seed in us......after all it is holy spirit.........but our responsibility is not just to cultivate and share this fruit amongst ourselves.....we must share it with the world as christ did......it is not just a "household" chore but a calling to serve the world the bread of life.........imo...........christianity has been arrogantly selective regarding it's choices of whom to help by limitting the "pool of the needy" to mostly fellow believers......prioritizing doctrine, theology and denominational fractionism over simply trying to do the things christ did REGARDLESS OF THE VENUE........our greatest witness is not in what we know or say, but, rather in what we do for, to and with our fewllow humans.......yet, a vast number of christrians spend more time condemning, judging and bashing each other than they do bearing and sharing the fruit of that precious seed which cost jesus christ his life at calvary.....god's gift to us makes us the most capable people in the world at helping others, yet, we let the tares of hatred, mammon, prejudice, rascism and intolerance choke that "good seed" from bearing it's fruit!.....it's not our job to prove to the world that we're "right"........it's our "job" to to demonstrate to the world that christ lives by reaching out to a mankind starving for love, validation and meaningfulness. And NO!!......i'm not talking about "word over the world"....but, rather..."word living in the midst of the world"!........i don't care if mother theresa was a doubting roman catholic nun......neither did those dying in the streets of callcutta.......she displayed god's seed in her, she did'nt debate it with people........i don't care what she believed or did'nt believe!!.......i saw the living christ in what she DID!..........i truly agree that many christians have taken "the bullets"........but so have many non-christians........there sholuld be enough fruit to go around once all the shouting stops!!! Sorry for the rant.......i guess i should stay away from that espresso, eh???

LOL!!!..............you guys are killin' me!!........i have not done any of these yet........but my "to do" list just got expanded a whole bunch!!!!..........still LOL!

HEY DOOJ!........which by the way was the original title of one of our favorite beatles tunes!.....hehehe.........you crack me up girl!.........let me assure "y'all"......it's not the taste of the coffee here at the spot that's messin' with my touingue!.......i don't know how to make it stop!.......although without the toungue thing happenin'.......would'nt it seem presumptuous on my part to use al's pic ??..........LOL!

oooopppps!.......almost did that double posty thingy!!!.......sorry.........durn newbie that i am..........lol!

Hi again all you coffee drinkers!!........a few thoughts and comments..... Mr.Hammeroni.......first, let me say that your posts are always so concise and to-the-point.....jocular or serious.....but consistently enjoyable....."i think a person can learn from it provided they lived through it to begin with"....."the most closure i've seen people experience is just to understand the nature of the predator".....i agree with you wholeheartedly.....the individual esperiences of those injured by their "leaders" cannot...imo...be generalized in an attempt to come up with a successful recovery "formula" for all the victims of the abusers......but,..empathetic, compassionate, non-judgemental dialogue with other victims and sympathetic non-victims can lead to inividual understanding of the "nature of the predator".....that's why i say ....keep posting!!.....that's why a forum like this can be so helpful and healing for all parties involved, so that individual and even "collective" recovery is encouraged and gently nurtured.....so that, as both you and Groucho point out.....each individual can get to the point of forgiving him or her self!!.....that's why it's so important for us to keep posting the facts so that the various individual victims can realize "it was'nt their fault"!!.....it was and is the nature of the beast that got 'em.......love and truth only hurt the the haters and the liars......that's why i post.....to continue to expose those lyin', thievin'; weasels for what they are today.....not just what they were...'cuz they have not changed!!.....but, by the grace of god and the compassion of christ.....or maybe by the persistent, determined will of simple human dignity.....WE HAVE!!.......and we continue in the pursuit of our bliss while they wallow in the depravity of their doctrinal and practical perversions. Groucho....."because they have not apologized or even acknowledge they did something wrong, i hold them in low regard."....."but just because they don' want my forgiveness, it does'nt mean i can't dump my bitterness. i loathe them for being the squirmy little insect that landed in the potato salad of my life..but at this point it's more of a detached emotion..it's a calm opinion rather than an emotional outrage. i forgave myself for being duped by cornfield vic....."......AMEN BRO!.....me too!!.....and that's one of the reasons i'm glad you're still here groucho....to lend a hand to those who are struggling to let time heal their wounds through calm, yet compassionate dialogue.....factual.....honest.....loving.....and eventually.....healing! So.....to all you "leaders".....you can lie to yourelves.....you can lie to one another.....you have and do lie to us......BUT GOD KNOWS WHAT YOU HAVE DONE AND WHAT YOU'RE DOING.....HOW YOU PERSIST IN EVIL.....AND WE KNOW TOO!!.....AND YOU CAN'T EVER SHUT US UP AGAIN!!...........PEACE.

ROTFALMFAO!!!!!!!............T-Bone........did you write that???.......that is just too funny!!!!!!..........i'm still cleaning off my 'puter screen!!!.......thanks for that!!!! the posts so far on this thread......imo.......have been fabulous!!!........thanks to all of you........looks like i'm just gonna have to have my java at this place on a regular basis..........thanks again everybody........keep 'em coming.........

hi doojable.......sorry 'bout that.......i got it mixed up with a post of your's about ctboom on a different thread........thanks for clearin, that up.......

Hello everybody!!.....how's your coffe today?.......you posters are AWESOME!!.......thanks for the many great replies!.....profound, considered, polite, and divergent.....a credit to the clientelle in this joint!.....and also the manager.....thanks pawtucket!! T-Bone.......thanks for the welcome and the post.......those verses and your insight regarding "the whole process of reconciliation" very concisely sum up my personal biblical perspective on this topic.....also, your questions are thought provoking. ButNowISee.......yeah.......ironic how the words of jesus were twisted by twi and turned into their malpractice of "mark and avoid". Agape99, Doojable, Wrdsandwrks, Cinderpelt.......thought provoking as well.......stephen.....corrie ten boom.....amazing individuals.......can or should their individual experiences, example and courage be expanded to include all christians in all circumstances??.......i know that i know that i don't know. Skyrider.......again,...insightful, thought provoking questions.......the ball has been in their court for several decades now.......thankfully, god almighty is the eternal referee and we'll ALL be in his court one day! Socks.......man i love you dude!......."the effect of a fly spitting on my lawn".....LOL!.....i agree with your "pigs iceskating in hell" theory regarding the odds that rosie and her gang will ever apologize.......your theory is probably more positive than my own expectations!.....hehehe.....just so ya know.....i don't "need revenge"....."vengeance is mine saith the lord. i will repay."......i don't feel the need to forgive them....." cast not your pearls before swine.".....yeah.....they're totally on their own.......was that a fly i just saw spitting on my lawn?? AnotherDan.......great song!! Twinky.....again.....thought povoking questions.......looking forward to a reply from ButNowISee. Dot Matrix.......you go girl!!......."they are injured because THEY WERE injured".......right on!!.......god.....david.....bathsheba.....uriah.....absalom.....why indeed "left in the bible to be discussed for all time"?.......thanks for the heartfelt post for the injured!!......."one was a horrible day, the other, torturous, calculated decades of destructive patterns and acceptable sin".......wow!!......i agee with twinky on that one!! RainbowsGirl.......i love you too!! Doojable......." forgive if and when you are ready-at a time you decide-but never ever forget-that way you will not be deceived again.".......amen Dooj.....never again! Excathedra.......you're welcome!.....thanks for your posts and for reading mine.......i mean it too! Thank you all!!.......keep them posts and thoughts coming........and,...to my aforementioned list of "leaders".......like doojable said.......i will never ever forget!!.......and neither can you, naked in all your wickedness before our heavenly father!!........................................PEACE!

hello socks.....my dear, old minster friend........again...happy b-day..............i'm sorry.........i'm tired...........just got home from an open heart case........seeing double and ready to hit the sack.......starting again in 4 and a half hours..........sorry.but i'm not understanding what you're saying here.......could be i'm just to beat.......but, if you don't mind...........could you tell me a bit more plainly what you're saying to me?.......i'm not following you.........but do know one thing.........love you and j.............thanks for your patience in helping me to understand your reply...............i'm hittin' the sack now socks..............peace..

Thanks to all who have taken the time to read and reply to this thread. the heart displayed by you regarding your forgiveness of those mentioned in my list of "leaders" is a true testament to your individual desires to be "imitators of god as dear children" by doing the things christ did. i respect and admire you and wish i could summjon up the desire to br as forgiving toward those "leaders" as most of you have been. those of you who are christians are indeed a credit to your heavenly father and your lord jesus christ!..............and i sncerely mean that!.......... Oakspear.........i was referring not just to myself as "the man who knew too much" but to the "many posters here" who found themselves in that position. however, you are correct in your inference that i was in a "leadership position" in twi prior to leaving in "86. i have , by the grace of god, not been in the position of "needing forgiveness" from a great many people i worked with in twi because i can honestly say before you , god and jesus christ that i never participated in any sexual misconduuct of any kind during my time in twi......nor did i steal or otherwise misappropriate any abs or other minstry funds, i was'nt a drunk...nor did i willfully or intentionally hurt, abuse or "seek vengeance" upon any believer i worked with during those years. there have been occasions through the years when believers whom i have hurt or offended confronted me and if indeed i hurt or wronged them i unhesitatingly apologized and ask for their forgiveness. i felt then and still believe today that this was a part of my responsibilty before god as a "leader"........if i have offended or wronged you please .........let's talk............... To make a long story shorter (can't really say this will be "short"....hehehe).........my first 10 years in twi were fun, exciting, and, other than what seemed at times like more than my "fair share" of "facemeltings" from vp while in the corps,...i really enjoyed a lot of great experiences. my spouse was never molested, although she was once "groped" by vp but turned around and nearly smacked him one..........that was it......we never found ourselves "included" in any of the "secret esociety" sex games or any other wierd stuff......but things began to change for us in 1980 and grew far worse beginning with the "anniversary year" of '81-82....culminating in the mantle thing of october '82.......'82-86 were really awful as we seemed to be spending more and more time counselling people who were confiding in us about truly horrific things that were perpetrated against them at the hands of "leadership".....we were naive enough to think that the "power of the word" was enough with which to confront these "leaders" and reform the wrong doctrines and practices that seemed to be spreading like an out-of-control wildfire!.........boy were we ever wrong!!.....it finally got to the tipping point of where we resigned from our positions and left "the ministy" forever in "86.....we were never fired.....we considered our resignation a "protest" against the injustices we were receiving more and more firsthand information about......i felt it was my responsibilty to fight against these injustices on behalf of the hundreds of "little people" that i knew firsthand had been betrayed by their "ministry" and it's leadersl...... that lasted about 2 years until i decided it was no longer "profitable" to continue fighting the viscious lies and personal atacks levelled against me by twi and it's "leaders".......so, i went back to school.....real, accreditted school....and took on the profession in which i work to this day.......i truly love what i do and find it wonderfu;lly fulfilling and rewarding......i lived a happily twi-free life until 1999, when i was contacted by paul a. and encouraged to become a "poster" at waydale.....i also became involved with his and fern's legal battle with twi until they won their settlement.........waydale stopped and i hung around the greaespot until martindale was forced to resign.........i felt my contribution was done so i just faded out of the picture enjoying life and my job........i remain a fiercely independent, unchurched christian who has decided not to be a part of any christian or religious organization of any kind............ My current presence here at the gsc is due to an interesting confluence of events in several twi "offshoots".......a few months back, a former "leader"of one of the "offshoots" contacted me out -of-the-blue telling me of some of the recent events that had occurred in that group, asking me to "check out" gsc to catch up on all the facts which had been posted here and then give my thoughts regarding it all.........i finally got around to doing that about a month ago and spent a whole heckuva lot of time reading a lot of threads in various forums........as i read, i really started getting "bugged" reading the posts by people who had shared their stories back during the waydale days and were still being challenged by some of the vp "protectors" i referred to in my previous post.......then i read posts from people who had left in the mid "90's, and after 2000 and some even very recently and found that the horror stories were not only continuing but in some cases were even worse!.........i started seeing the same injustices still being repeated and in fact worsening into the so called "present truth"!........ my father was a union organizer in the 1930's in the southern us and mexico until enlisting in the army in december, 1941.....after serving in the european theater through 1945 he was stationed in the american sector of occupied germany and participated in the postpwar denazification as an intelligence officer in the oss from "46-'48......it was during this time that he met my mother whose family were holocaust survivors of dachau, imprisoned not because they were jews, (they were'nt)....but because my maternal grandfather had been a "social democrat"...(socialist)..political leader before the war and was a political prisoner at dachau......so, i admit to having a "quixotic idealism" against injustice programmed into me by folks which may indeed be a characer flaw.......... i'm not as good at the forgiveness part of christianity as many of you are here.........i do not feel i need to forgive the "leaders" i mentioned in my previous post in order to accomplish something good for myself.......although i certainly understand and appreciate what bliss, washington weather, ex10, ww, cman and others have posted here....and as i said before i truly do respect you for being able to do what you needed to do to move on with life.........i honestly have not thought much at all about twi or it's "offshoots" during the last 7 years, until i started reading here at the spot..........my recent reading adventures reminded me that all those "leaders" i menioned above still have never publicly apologized to any one!.......they continue taking money from people they're lying to.....duping them into the same old "myths and legends" ....... the horror stories i've read about the stuff that's transpired from '89 to the present are just as bad as the ones i knew about up through '88 when i "checked out" of it all..........imo.............they still owe god and thousands of god's children an apology!.......and, as of right now, i still don't forgive any of them............forget 'em?.......easy!..........forgive 'em?...........not until they apologize!............ if i have offended anyone here........i apologize........i ask your forgiveness............i wish you all peace...........................and,.....btw.............don't worry.........i'm happy!...............