JeffSjo

Uuuhhhh, Except for the part where looking at that link makes plain my near total computer illiteracy I liked it Ham. :B)

This may be interesting Teachmevp, but I am not going to take time to read through your stuff right now. As an observation,VP wasn't exactly big on being clear about his sources either. :mellow: (That emoticon is to show that your response will tell me more, and that for present I am not intending any judgment.) For me, even when people I know I respect cite their sources as they post a teaching I tend to slip into "Eyes glazing over mode" pretty quickly. But when folks share something about themselves it tends to get my interest. Heck, for me, as The Way International and "River Road Fellowship" (See thread in "My Story" if you wish) has proved to me is that the intentions of the teacher are of paramount importance, not how good they happen to put together a teaching.

It IS easy! Until you get your mitts on them.

So then, wouldn't it make some sense that Way International obsession with credit and all the glory is a base perversion of a healthy regard for Christ that leads not just to apathy, but also envy?

I think for ministers, and everybody else in general it is far easier to examine others rather than themselves. And it is far easier to wield that sword than to endure it when it is directed at oneself. I do believe that if folks don't take heed when it is directed at them justly, it will only grow progressively worse for them from that point on unless they turn. I despise most those manipulators who deliberately use these sentiments just to beat people into some oppressed form of obedience. I believe divine justice turns them into the thing they thought to accuse others of, or worse. (edited to change "head" to "heed" hehehe Oh, and I added the last sentence)

I could really go for a section where every BOT/BOD individual was lined up mugshot style. Given peoples' bad experiences we might need a disclaimer for those who had just eaten....

I don't think Wierwille wanted us to have a "a much broader scope of living the bible and keeping the weightier matters of grace, mercy, justice, and truth in perspective" Oldskool! IMO it turned to more of a mindless retemorie academy so as to not interfere w/ his sport. <_< Always good to keep enough genuine folks around to keep selling the class though.

A relative always is sending me stuff, a lot of it abundantly laugh worthy. Glad it hit the spot for you. :)

How about..... Helljustfrozeover

KIDS IN CHURCH! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 3-year-old Reese: 'Our Father, Who does art in heaven, Harold is His name. Amen.' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A little boy was overheard praying: 'Lord, if you can't make me a better boy, don't worry about it. I'm having a real good time like I am.' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ After the christening of his baby brother in church, Jason sobbed all the way home in the back seat of the car. His father asked him three times what was wrong. Finally, the boy replied, 'That preacher said he wanted us brought up in a Christian home, and I wanted to stay with you guys.' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ One particular four-year-old prayed, 'And forgive us our trash baskets as we forgive those who put trash in our baskets.' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A Sunday school teacher asked her children as they were on the way to church service , 'And why is it necessary to be quiet in church?' One bright little girl replied, 'Because people are sleeping.' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A mother was preparing pancakes for her sons, Kevin 5, and Ryan 3 The boys began to argue over who would get the first pancake. Their mother saw the opportunity for a moral lesson. 'If Jesus were sitting here, He would say, 'Let my brother have the first pancake, I can wait.' Kevin turned to his younger brother and said, 'Ryan, you be Jesus!' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A father was at the beach with his children when the four-year-old son ran up to him, grabbed his hand, and led him to the shore where a seagull lay dead in the sand. 'Daddy, what happened to him?' the son asked. 'He died and went to Heaven,' the Dad replied.. The boy thought a moment and then said, 'Did God throw him back down?' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For me it seems somewhat humbling too. The things that I might speculate about based on my ex's loyalties and Barnard's reported habits in River Road Fellowship I refuse to do for the sake of my son who might read this someday, or be told about because of certain manipulators and the like. But that does not negate the feelings of betrayal and foolishness on my part, sometimes more than others. I think that for many people; especially those that just want to love an unseen God perhaps; there can be a tendency of taking people at their word. And in case of The Way International it seems obvious that some people were willing to replace a normal and healthy conscience with the party line, others were surely devoid of a healthy conscience from the beginning. I ignored signs of trouble in the group and in my marriage only to be sold out by people (of whom I have no doubt anymore) more wicked than anyone else I have actually met. How the heck is anybody who is prone to be trusting and honest not likely to be fooled by folks like these? I kind of wonder how those that knew of the wickedness but did nothing will fare someday, y'know!?

Can anybody explain to me why we don't have pictures of her posted regularly? I would do it if I had them.

Interesting as always Roy! For me that was a surprise as concerning a middle ages custom I did not know about. I'll stick to Daniel's example as much as possible...... Pray to God and respect civil rulers.

And surprise search warrants with about a hundred strong search group to nail multiple locations too. Otherwise I'd guess they would just slither into the shadows again.

The Way is quick to play the "poor me" card when having to face folks like us. How uncouth, mean, anti-Christ, unloving we all are. They demand a form of protocol with all the Wayfers. But in regards to their own actions they seem only governed by something like, "How badly can we intimidate them all without getting busted." If I had met these guys when I was younger I might have believed Rosie's lies and lived in whatever spin The Way put on their actions. Not now.

Yeah, a good audit backed up by subpoenas, and very smart lawyers who saw through The Ways bs that were also unrelenting!

IMO It's all about the grooming, the steady, deliberate erosion of a wayfer's morals. We all started at a certain place. Among the ones who could maintain a steady, loving, or authoritative appearance their were doubtlessly a few victims and/or abusers who could be fast tracked straight to the top of Wayworld because they could be counted to jump in the midst of the abuse. Among others it was perhaps a steady and deliberate wearing down of standards eventually leading to yielding to temptation. From the groomers standpoint a woman or a man that could be corrupted themselves would certainly be more willing to allow their spouses and even their children partake in the carnage. I think such things have proven to be fairly commonplace in human history leading to even worse tragedies. It's just that for me, what the Way and the splinters are is something that I take personally.

TWO CENTS ALERT Wheeew For just a moment I thought my comparison of HQ to a wasteland was much more literal than I suspected.

YES, yes it does! When I think of The Way International I think many people started as wide eyed kids whose hearts were full of wonder, love, and all kinds of amazing things. But as things developed many of these great things were ground down and beaten out of the Wayfers. They were replaced with mindless and heartless dogma in service to a corrupt organization that served Wierwille's crotch. After Wierwille the organization served a man who was two-fold a child of hell than Wierwille was. And after the forehead, another who is fourfold a child of hell than the founder. I can hardly wait for the next installment. :B) I think the ones they feared the most were the ones who when confronted The Ways ugliness had the heart to say truthfully as a child of God, straight from the pages of 1John, "Wierwille is of the devil!"; or perhaps, "He is an anti-Christ." Heck, I admire the ones who saw through their crapola even without scripture, just sensing or seeing something was rotten. I believe there is a lot to be said for someone who knows the wonder of life and has a strong foothold in the scriptures though....geez, I just love those guys! Personally, I hope some of the beaten down ones can find their way back to the faith of a little child. But I know they won't be as prone to being fooled again. Reality can be a tough teacher. Hopefully, any of us might have friends who love us and can say, "Boy, when did you become such a jerk!?" (edited because since this is "doctrinal" I think I should be able to say "HELL" instead of he11.)

No kidding Jim! Aren't those thoughtless, misguided, and misapplied Wayfer sayings still in our brain a pain in the azz?! You would have been better off saying, "Heck honey, I'm too poor to pay attention." Every once in a while I say something that reminds me of something I learned in The Way, even if I end up deciding that what I said was ok it still creeps me out.

In River Road Fellowship things got to the point a long, long time ago that only the top dog (insane as he was in retrospect) could qualify new folks. An overall feeling of paranoia and guilty conscience and who knows how many other problems already had him acting like those of us who thought for ourselves were enemies. I think the prospect of anybody not completely in their control is frightening to them!

I get the "Solomon" reference, but I don't understand the post Gen-2. Well, Hooray for generation Y then. :eusa_clap: Sheesh....Wayfers I believe have been led to believe that such kids are of the devil. How pathetic is that?

I like the whole, "wonder of it all" sentiment." Every time I read 1John it gives me a tremendous dose of that wonder and even encourages me to hold on to a little bit of that in my heart. I don't believe a highminded academic will EVER truly understand that book....Written by someone the Lord called along with his brother James "Sons of Thunder." My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. He that sins is of the devil, (Exposing the anti-Christs) I have written to you little children, He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist etc., etc. It seems to me the book requires a little wonder to get, certainly more than word studies. I can't recount how many times I've seen folks stumbling over definitions and grammar while a child with the spirit in him/her would understand clearly in the passing. The topics of 1John are thunderously important, the writing manner is childishly simple. It may reveal the liars and the deceivers, easily enough that a little child may see, but not the arrogant IMO.

I sometimes seem only able to gleen just a little bit of The Way International top leadership thinking and this is one of those times. Rosie speaks of the "standards of the Bible" as if she really has a clue... According to Way-innie Wayfer lingo servicing the MOG was an acceptible Biblical standard.

His disciples were discussing which of them would be the greatest. This seems just like something that might happen among friends involved in any endeavor. It doesn't HAVE TO BE all contentious and mean-hearted as most seem to portray the record. But the Lord came in told them how to be great, in effect by not trying to be great, by trying to be the opposite. For me it brings to mind that the Lord knew how petty and competitive men can be, even among friends. Or at the very least he used their conversation as a springboard to get them to think about he himself was meek and lowly in general. No matter...I love the record.