JeffSjo

"Depending on my mood"..... That struck me as funny right now Soul Searcher because I do that sometimes too. Like my mood has any real effect on what someone is or isn't. hehehe I think people are generally capable of doing and/or being good, bad, or both. The extent of either will vary widely and uniquely with all of us. But even if I risk a joke about it all, I have been on the uuuugly side of being labled and wouldn't wish that kind of false label and the consequences on an enemy. On the other hand, I do believe that some people are set on doing evil and may deserve it if someone refers to them as a "devil." But I' guess I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt until their own actions erase my unceratainty, y'know?

I suppose you are right Waysider. Those darn weeds are persistent and tough. Not to get too doctrinal, but maybe I can safely say that it seems the weeds and the crops need to keep going on all intermixed for some time yet. And even more important to me, I don't feel I have the right to pretend I can always tell the difference, but I may choose to call them as I see it sometimes.

No putting you in any place you don't want to go is intended Geisha, really. But after reading how "we are blaming God for all the evil in the world..." I felt it necessary to point out that it is not my intent to do so. I think that in The Way we were too often "handled" by leadership whose intentions really were to "put us in our place" and I don't like it either. But here I don't see why me clarifying my intentions need to be considered as such to you. Yeah, the light part of my post was intended as a toungue-in-cheek reference to a pretty women, but even as I said it I was certain that many women would rightly say the very same thing about certain guys. I think that biblically there are many references to things that seem attractive to us but are no good for us Soul Searcher, and in all seriousness I think it goes far beyond my questionable attempt at a lighter moment as to it being a worthy consideration.

WE...Really Geisha? I'm thinking about some hard questions asked by someone who seems very sincere in his/her beliefs. And whether or not anything changes for Composer I don't mind the consideration and I am not blaming God, but do acknowledge that God is aware of each and every bit of the evil in the world. I believe in the plan I read about too, it's just that it is not a clear picture either, you know. But on a lighter note, as a guy I have to say that not all that is beautiful is of God either..... :B)

I firmly believe any effort on our part would be very, very second rate, but on the other hand...I chuckled at this one. hehehe http://www.guzer.com/videos/lighting-garbage-can-fire.php

I never thought of that...sheesh...no kidding. Not to teach on the angels but have a complete but delusional view of what the devil spurts are up to. I guess The Way International can only have to give that which they are. (Great principle from PFAL with slight modification- Cinco de Mayo, 2010)

At the very least Luna, you have many folks who know how you feel. :)

I hear you Oldskool! Unfortunately from my experience, they will not cease to find biblical analogies to fit their own organizational needs. <_<

yup, pretty much a done deal IMO.

Preliminary results from the post mortem examination of The Way International: Patient shows some kind of cancerous infection and blindness going back to it's inception. Probably the result of innapropriate sexual contact, sociopathic and histrionic tendencies, obsessive cumpulsive disorder, and delusional tendencies. In the course of the subject's growth the poisonous infections have manifested themselves in several overlapping and recurring symptoms including but not limited to: Major structural problems being covered up by layers of lying, Servile and useless behavior being substituted for truly talented and vital group and individual activity, Leadership lying about every single aspect as concerning the truth of what they are/were up to, Good people having their lives wrecked before being discarded as some kind of refuse, Leadership's true brutality to be hidden behind several well entrenched layers of uniquely Way International meaningless religious cliches, Complete inability to deal with honest criticism leading to the unfortunate tendency of them mistaking their disease fighting parts for the disease itself leading to the cancerous diseaes completly displacing the life giving functions, The truth that they lead people about with now is dishonest not just simply so, but dishonest on many levels in almost every way. These conditions led to an exreemely emaciated and wasting away reality while they console themselves with delusions of granduer. The diseased parent organism sent out several diseased shoots in different directions varying as to the intentions and progression of the original cancerous diseases during the course of it's death throws. COMPLETE DIAGNOSIS WILL NEED TO BE DONE BY THE CHIEF EXAMINER FOLLOWED SHORTLY BY THE BURNING OF THE DISEASED REMAINS. (Last symptom was added in the editing function.)

I had this conversation in Facebook messages recently with one of the younger men who came from River Road Fellowship. I'm removin the reference to his identity and editing some of his cussing.......And my words are in green. DOES THIS SOUND LIKE ANYONE ELSE WE KNOW? Craig Martindale vs. David Koresh: One was a crazy cult leader who slept with married women whose husbands were loyal followers and had numerous screwy, nutty, and stupid doctrines who isolated his followers as best he could in order to dominate them........... and the other was David Koresh!? I don't know what the f___ you're talking about most of the time, old school... and honestly, I don't give a f___. I've moved on... and it's a shame that you haven't. So, with that said, find someone else to try to feed this pointless bull____ to. Thank you. and you have a great f___in day. I am glad you answered J___, of all the messages I sent out you are the one to respond and Thank you for that. But what I hear in your response is egyptian to me, you know, just denile. Ohhh, and snottiness too. What's your point? After some consideration and a little observation I think you act just like them, at least that's how some of you treat me. Same cottemptive dismissiveness. Same sarcasm. Same behind the scenes effort at guiding others' opinions. And unfortunately for you I don't expect anything different from you now. There has been no response yet. But he has been close to "The father's son"(from post #72 on this thread) as far as I have heard.

Been thinking about this one for a bit, since reading Sirgues.... in another thread. I think the key for me to getting what seems like good footing for me in this area is the consideration of the fall of man. Without the fall there would be no death and human suffering IMO. With "the fall" we get death, suffering, a god (so-called) of this world, humankind that is born seperate from God by nature and a creation that is bound to groan along until some unknown future date where we have promises of a permanently better place. I think we may choose to believe a better place is coming. But even then, this life is all that we actually know so the promise is automatically speaking of things that can not be or is not possible now. Personally, I can not grasp that God and satan had a conversation about Job's suffering before it began but that's what it says. Personally, if I had a piece of work that I expected to be dear to me but others came along and mucked it up I would be hard pressed to imagine doing anything with it besides destroying my messed up work right away and starting over. If God had done the same with a creation that wasn't just a little off, but where the main players took themselves completely out of touch with the hand of creation... I wouldn't Be Here to either come to terms OR to beeotch about it..... I wouldn't be here to suffer or have hope for a better future eventually..... I wouldn't be here to either hope for the seemingly impossible OR settle for an existence without any spiritual values of any kind.... Personally, things seem unbearably bleak if all that I ever have is a few years to breathe and blink out of existence without any hope of anything better. I can imagine a loving God allowing His creation to creak and groan on in spite of tremendous suffering in the present AS LONG AS He has something better in mind after all the wickedness, suffering, and unfairness of this life is over...At least He didn't break it down into nothingness again and start over because if He had done that I wouldn't even be here to beeotch about it. (edited in an attempt at clarification)

I washed my former splinter group leader's (Victor Barnard's) feet once. He sat through it like some kind of Royalty with a stupid condecending smirk on his face. My then wife said to me later, I can't believe you washed his feet, looking at me like I was some kind of cretinous fool. (This was long before anybody told me he had been habitually bedding the women.) I looked at her and said, "I had to, his feet were dirty. :mellow: "

In my splinter group, River Road Fellowship I remember specifically that one man falsely so-called a prophet described the return in his imagination in terms of status. Wierwille on top, Victor Barnard on the next tier, and in terms of our group but in my terms, :B) the biggest brain dead, suck-up, sell outs to Barnard would be next in line. I was of course relinquished to the fate of the anti-Christ, false prophet, heretics to be destroyed not just now but also in the future. The sad thing is that now I believe they are deserving of the same medicine they once felt qualified to make others suffer.

The little bit I remember from The Way International about how the five-crowns teaching went down in terms of effect was that leadership had to scrub the entire line of thought because most of the Corps started acting even more competitive and selfish than The Way had already led them to be. I'm not positive about whether or not that was a local occurance, but it was described to me as Corps grads competing over who would get the eternal awards for the one and only new task/position that was open. It might not have been quite so twisted I imagine if folks weren't already too carnally competitive, but as it was it seems the five-crowns doctrine was like throwing gas on the fire.

Ter.....WHO?

I've been doing some reading and some thinking Java. I don't think these pervs need to be worried about us burning any effigies. I'm pretty sure they will go on some long diatribe to keep their mind-numbed followers in check as they doubtlessly will do, or already have. Besides, our lame attempts would be so second rate compared to the fire that's obviously coming. (edited for the sake of clarity)

ok Soul searcher...hhhmmm Or, in my work the most annoying coworkers are the ones who already know everything when they do not. Or perhaps, If I preach perfection, odds are I'm fooling myself. Or perhaps, all men are liars.

I'll give it a shot Penworks. I think claiming to be holding perfection can be an ego trip because knowledge puffeth up. Given that I myself can be caught up in the same folly and because of having spent so much time in a group with another false Apostle who spent a lot of time spouting on about the scripture's perfection, a lot of times people who preach the innerancy of the scriptures seem to me to be traveling down an easily recognized road to me. Characterized by being unable to accept reasonable correction or even just reasonable considerations from another.

I like it. Much better to be able to face it and deal. Much easier to keep it stuffed away out of sight. Much easier to write them off for the very same faults I myself have. Much easier to think escaping the just results of my faults somehow makes me better than them; or is it still true that in condemning them, I condemn myself. Much easier to not face my own demons and condemn others for the same. Much better to see the ugly and somehow manage to lighten that territory. God's foolishness is stronger than our strength. His judgements are just, I'm a fool if I think I get them. I know love and grace when it shakes me to my bones.

MOOmmy in da verd, heh, was that a fruedian slip? :wacko: They claim the status and many folks buy into it.....blech! Thank you for having such a big part in updating Wayworld for me Oldskool.

Is it just me or does some people's claims to having grasped perfection only serve to magnify both their faults and the effects of their faults because of the implicite delusion in claiming their understanding of perfection?

I'm glad you are moving on Java, it sounds like your journey is moving you into a better place. The place I found to deal with what you shared about what you are going through isn't so much that you were burning a bible, but that you have to discard all the nasty, dishonest, unloving, doublespeaking, and abusive influence that your Way International notes that happened to be in your old bible represent for you. Personally I am glad for you that The Way International didn't spoil that for you like they have for so many others. But I just found out that The Way has been referring to Howard Allen as Uncle Howard as of late. Back in my Way days we had only Harry Wierwille as the designated uncle of the crowd and of course we had "Uncle Harry Day" to go along with his moniker. The unique and healthy direction your own life has been moving lately has given me an idea. :ph34r: We could have a brand new day in honor of all those who have had to learn to move on, away from the perverse and twisted things that The Way International has done to the Grace of God.... We could call it.......(drumroll)..........UNCLE HOWARD'S DAY

"Uncle Howard" is a reference to Howard Allen, right?