So_crates

So in your mind, Mike, it all narrows to the cliche excuse of all those B movie mediums and grifters: You didn't belive. So, tell me, if this is so vital, how does one know if he's mental assenting or believing?

Oh, that's different. So you're telling me Saint Vic pulled a bait and switch. He claimed PLAF would be the new class. He had all those people pay how much more and travel how far to be a part of it. Then at the last minute he uses the phoney excuse that God told him. Did he reimburse the people that went through the trouble of attending? So he'll listen to God on that, but he won't listen to God when God tell Saint Vic keep it in your pants.

Says the guy who refuses to budge an inch on his postulates. If you have zero flexibility on what I offer, why should I have flexibility on what you offer?

So you're disobeying one of the rules of PLAF: If 20 scriptures say something and one contradicts it, you don't throw out the 20 in favor of the one, you look at the one and find out what's wrong with it. This may surprise you, but there are plenty of accounts were one side acts and there's no reaction from the other side. There's also accounts where the devil acts without any action from God.

And now for the facts. Saint Vic was all gun-holier than thou about PLAF 77 until someone in the audience called out the associative property quicker than he could state it. At that point, Saint Vic realized people knew PLAF better than he did and decided to scrap the class. He probably used the God told me excuse to cover for his own error in presenting class everyone already knew and protect his ego. Good of you to spread a TVT.

Just as I was speaking of the IDEA of multi-tasking and not the exact words of "multi-tasking", (as if bibical people understood the concept of multi-tasking) the IDEA of an all knowing God not knowing something and not the exact words "I am all knowing but I don't know how to handle this." My point being there's obviously more to the account than what your narrow view offers Just as my statements are my vocab words to express those ideas and could be in the scriptures with different wording.

Cain killed Able, what did God do to open the door? What did God do to allow Noah's flood to occur? What did God do to give the devil the chance to create Sodom and Gomorrah? Paul would walk and his shadow would heal people, how did the devil use this door opening?

Further, it was Saint Vic that stated, "Signs, miracles, and wonders follow the Man of God the way a tail foliws a dog." But because The Way--and by extension Saint Vic and PLAF--fail this text, it doesn't mean The Way is a counterfeit ministry. It's because God overspent his budget with Jesus Christ and Paul and he has nothing left in the coffers for contemporary believers.

This is a cop out. It's right up there with "It wasn't God's will" or "God works in mysterious ways." It be more honest if you said you didn't know.

You obviously haven't consulted the bible on this. First off, the devil is on a tight budget. God is all powerful; the devil is limited in his power. This is best witnesses in Job where it says the devil was going to and fro about the earth. God is everywhere; the devil can only be one place at a time. Second, God created the devil, making the devil a lesser being. Third, why was the snake in Eden? Because after the war in heaven God cast him down to earth and he became the God of this world?

I could make the same claims about your theories. All we have are scriptures to guide us in these matters. They say nothing about "two doors" or God limiting himself to limit the devil. We should not second guess the situation; just learn from it. Isn't it amazing how when you want to shoehorn your theories it's okay, but everybody else has t riggedly go by what the text says?

Yah. I'm sure those bibical parent would have let their kids go off with any stranger that came along. By the way, what responsibilities did a 30 year old have then that a 20 year old didn't have? Some of the apostles were fishermen, one was a physician. Both positions suggest age, not youth. Christ didn't start his ministry until after he was 30. Don't you think he would have started it earlier if he could have? Now, why would the apostles be able to galavant all over the countryside if Christ couldn't?

And your point is? Do you think we don't know people that can't use miracles?

Apparently the all powerful God never learned to multi-task. Also, wouldn't an all knowing being know how to get his point across quickly and efficiently and not have to monkey around for 21 days.

Since, in biblical times, you weren't considered an adult until you were 30, I would have guessed all the apostles were 30 or older.

The last verse of Hebrews 10 mentions faith and salvation However, I'm not going to try to defend the undefendable. I base my thoughts on an educated guess, that the Way often takes what the bible says too broadly. What do you think the "things" mentioned in Hebrews 1:1 are?

Don't know, however it made all the difference. The woods are lovely, dark and deep But I have promises to keep And miles to go before I sleep Miles to go before I sleep.

First off, it refers to the title deed to things hoped for. What things? A Corvette stingray? Living at the Playboy mansion? As I said in the follow up post, I think the author is speaking only about salvation. The second question I would ask is if the just live (Zoe) by faith/believing (pistis) then why isn't the ministry's emphasis on strengthening that faith/believing? Rather, the ministry's emphasis is more on marking up bibles with Greek words.

I'm thinking the Way took things too broadly. For example, pressed down, shaken together and running over was taken as a principle of giving and receiving. If you looked at the context it was speaking in reference to forgiveness. Now as to the title deed verse: what if that was referring only to receiving holy spirit and salvation (which are basically the same thing)?

**Shoulder shrug** Don't know. We'll have to ask Robert Frost.

Or maybe how we define faith is wrong.

We dance 'round the ring and suppose, The secret sits in the middle and knows.

Looks like we agree.

How?

First, your burden of proof is off. If I were to claim Saint Vic was a Keebler elf that made snicker doodles in a hollow tree. The burden of proof would be on me to produce a Keebler time card or a snicker doodle with his signature or a photo of him smoking outside the hollow tree. The burden is not on you to prove me wrong. Second, on the basis of the statement you made in the quote, would Mein Kopf be God breathe? How would you know?