So_crates

Home: I'm not even sure I know what that means anymore, Ham. I had one clear idea of where I wanted my life to go. Along came Saint Vic and his demented circus. Like a ringmaster, he dared me to step right up to the hoola hoop toss that would be my success. All you need is believing to put the ball through the hoop. Little did I know the game was rigged. Years later, after I got of his ramshackle tilt-a-whirl called believing, I had to face the fact that the life I wanted may be beyond my ability to achieve my vision for myself. And that my friend is the danger of running away with the circus. You usually wind up behind the elephants with a super duper pooper scooper. SoCrates

Consider Craigmeister, he knew how to play the game. Then he got the brass ring and found himself in the situation of a dog having caught a car. As our fearless, chosen leader, he was obviously over his head. From the year I spent in TWI2 and the few teachings I heard from the guy, he had no leadership qualities at all. He always struck me as someone who was threading water. He was way to reactive to be a leader. Leaders are proactive, that's why they're leaders, they're ahead of the pack. But not the Craigster. The war between good and evil wasn't enough for him, he had to be at war with the world. Then ultimatly his own people. Sad really. He should have hit the showers and demoted himself to water boy. SoCrates

I think its a little like the Peter Principle. Everybody rises to their level of incompetence, but few are willing to admit they've reached their level of incompetence and go back to a level where they are competent. Same with power. Lets face it guys, you don't rise to the top of the food chain because of your winning smile. The further up the ladder you go, the more you have to sell yourself out; the more you have to compromise your principles.. With that, occassionally comes the chance to do some good, sometimes. Out of this rises that sense of entitlement. I can just hear Saint Vic now: After all the good I've done, I deserve...(fill in whichever vice here). Though we know what it does, few are willing to give it up in favor of a life of more integrety. I think Ayn Rand said it best: Honesty is realizing you can't fake reality; integrety is realizing you can't fake yourself. SoCrates

The question we should be addressing here is not did God cover for Saint Vic the Phleabitten. Rather we should be asking, straight out of PFAL, which god would have covered for Saint Vic? SoCrates

Actually, Johniam's argument narrows to: SoCrates

Then why doe Ecc. 9:18 say: Wisdom is better than weapons of war, but one sinner destroyeth much good? SoCrates

Maybe not Saint Vic, but you must admit Craigmeister slayed the believers with the jawbone of an a$$. SoCrates

Selective reasoning, Johniam? I note your reasoning as being selective. For example, you ignore things you can't answer. I'm still waiting for a response on post #272 of this thread. Again, "god covered" for Saint Vic. Which god? And if God covered for his wickedness all those years, why not cover for him a little more by healing his ocular cancer and melanoma? According to the ministry, cancer is a devil's spirit, so why would God cover for someone full of devil's spirits? (A partial list of the devil's spirit's inhabiting Saint Vic is in post #272 of this thread) "We'll see who's being fooled." Again, speaking from experience, until fairly recent in my history, I kept telling myself the same thing. I used to think everyone else had the wool pulled over their eyes. I can honestly say now, I was the one being fooled. I bought into Saint Vic's demented circus and took all his rickety rides. I now know I should have asked for a refund on my ticket. I'm sure, however, Ringmaster Rivenbark isn't worried. After all P.T. Barnum said there was one born every minute. You see Johniam. you may think we're all a joke. But I'm not concerned. You know why? I know something you don't. I know one day you'll be like us. SoCrates

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clPYfaTvHT0 SoCrates

For those of you still trying to figure Saint Vic the Phleabitten out, take a gander at these links on the relationship between power and corruption. (link) (link) SoCrates

One of three things: 1. He didn't have the believing he claimed 2. He didn't have the connections he claimed 3. There is no such thing as the law of believing. I gravitate toward #3. My reasoning has always been: if the law of believing was as important as they made it out to be wouldn't Saint Vic had done more study on it and had manifesting down to a science? Instead what do you get when you discuss believing? Meaningless analogies and worthless bromides: 1. The camera analogy 2. Your sitting in that chair because of your believing 3. You are where you are today because of your believing, you will be where you will be tomorrow because of you believing. Nothing to help you understand it to the point of where you can see where you errored and therefore failed. Even the law of attraction set did a more detailed job of explaining how they thought what we were taught was believing worked. I once asked someone how I could tell if I was believing for something. Their answer: You get it. If you didn't get it you didn't believe enough. So the only way you know if you have enough believing is by the results. A silly way of measuring things. Can you see waiting until you run out of gas to fill the tank? Or waiting until the pantry is empty to buy more food? Or waiting until your broke to go out and get a job? There was nothing in the law of believing to provide you with mid-course corrections, it was all black or white. SoCrates

See post #272 of this thread. I'll ask again, according to PFAL, which god? SoCrates

But then of course the devil gave the idea to Al Gore. SoCrates

Yep, more snow from Saint Vic the Phleabitten, patron saint of black snowstorms, plagerist, BS, and Drambuie. SoCrates

Bet he helped create the internet, too. SoCrates

In the same vane as Maggie Muggin, Snowball Pete was a 1914 comedy (source) SoCrates

Judging by the text, in typical Saint Vic fashion, he took credit for the whole project. Sno-way. Way. Sno-way. Way. Snooooooooo-way. Way. SoCrates

The Hierarchy of Paranoia SoCrates

Some how it seems fit the "shovel ready" Man of God, should design a snow-climbing machine. He needed something to get over all that snow he was shoveling. SoCrates

Rather than forming a private police force, maybe Saint Vic should have looked at where his believing was at. He, like Job, apparently had unbelief which put a gap in that hedge of protection we all prayed so dilegently for for him. This allow negative things to come into his life. (Where is that sarcasm smiley?) SoCrates

I'll ask you a question from PFAL: "God covered for him as long as he did." which god? It seems to me a little contrary that God would "cover" for all his sinning, yet not allow him to be ministered to and healed of the ocular cancer and melanoma which eventually killed him Oddly enough, the ministry claims cancer as a devil's spirit. And where there's one devil's sprit, there's often others. According to Saint Vic, I believe in PFAL, anything you can't control is a devils spirit because God always gives you freedom of will. Shall we ennumerate a few of the devil's spirits, by Saint Vic's definition, he had: Alcoholism Sexual Addiction A BS spirit Ocular Cancer Melanoma Anger (those famous Saint Vic temper tantrums) And this is just off the top of my head. I'm sure if I wanted to take the time, I could come up with more. Now why would our God and Father "cover" for a man possessed by devil spirits? People possessed need healing, not being covered for. So again, why was he denied healing? Putting all this together we have an idea of which god covered for him. SoCrates

(from the SOWERS newsletter, link in post #1) Did you miss what Craigmiester said? When he suspended the WOW program he said it was because everybody in the world had heard the Word of God. Don't you listen to your own leadership? (source) He might want to rethink the smile however. He reminds me a little too much of a shark eyeing its dinner. SoCrates

Ministry logic--it can make a straight line look like a figure eight. SoCrates

I prefer to think of it more as Saint Vic's Folly (definition). SoCrates

SoCrates