So_crates

I can dig what your saying about JWs. When I lived in FL, I went to the local bar to listen to the entertainment. The guy who sat nxt to me was the entertainments father. He was a JW. He told me he would teach me the word like I'd never been taught it before. I told him, "Don't bet on that." (Little did he know one of the people in my building was a JW. The fellow tenent was the biggest gossiper in the whole building) Anyhow, I explained my position and asked why my faith (pistis) failed me. I got a fifteen minute sermon on why something was in the bible, not on something addressing the problem. Then he told me he had this book he wanted me to read on the names of God or somesuch. Told him I wasn't interested. he told me he'd bring it to me anyway. I told him to save himself the trouble even if he dropped it off I wouldn't read it. I left wondering if I was that obnoxious when I was witnessing as a WOW. I mean, the guy couldn't care less about me. He was more interested in spreading his doctrine. Same thing with the neighbor. he wasn't interested in people, only in spreading his doctrine. For me this is where most religions fail and why the ministry was so effective at sucking us in. Churches could learn a thing or two from werewolf and company. When your wrestling with life your not interested in a sermon, you can get that on any street corner, you want answers, a direction to go in. Werewolf knew if he feigned compassion people would flock to him. Isn't that why we all got involved in the ministry? The love bomb? They seemed more interested in us than sermonizing? As we all know now they were really more interested in our wallets and who could get who into the sack. SoCrates

Being the type of person who has always thought outside the box, I came to an important revelation one day. It happened during my "where did I go wrong and how can I correct it" phase. You know, that period of time just after you tell the ministry to put it where the sun don't shine (unfortunately, that would be the whole ministry--no son shining there). Anyway, I was being approached by just about every sect in creation wanting me to go to their church. I had devise dthis little test. Like the guy inThe Little Prince. You know he showed them a drawing if the said it was a hat he knew they were full of it, but if they said it was a snake swallowing an elephant he knew they were okay. Well, mine was to tell them my story and ask were I went wrong. If they gave me a 20 minute lecture on doctrine, I politely showed them the door. Needless to say a lot of people know what my door looks like. The abortion of people presenting me their church came an amuzing piece of wisdom: Whenever your involved with a group, turn the tenents of the group on the group. You'll be shocked the things you'll learn about the group. It uncovers a lot of hypocracy. Example: The ministry. I've done a lot of that in previous posts. Where were the leaders believing? How giving was the leadership? How forgiving? How much love did they really display? How much of the fruit of the spirit did they show us? Believing, giving, foriving, love, and fruits of the spirit were all tenents of the ministry. How much did they obey their own doctrine? Did they act like more than conquerers? Did they have the confidence of realizing them and god were a majority in any situation? Did they act like this world wasn't their home and they were just passing through? Another little bit of wisdom along these lines comes from W.C. Fields. The comment in the brackets is mine. He once said, If you enter a card game [or any situation for that matter], if you haven't figured out who the patsy is within the first five minutes, your the patsy. SoCrates

I like the comment someone made satirically: Terrorist say Happy Holidays.

You have to ask? Being a person who has dedicated my life to finding the truth, I'm saddened by what this 30 year field trip has done to me, my psychological state, and my spiritual wellbeing. I go through periods of deep depression. I wonder how God can take someone who has always searched for the truth and present them a whited seplicure like werewolf. As I've said before: I gave up a lot chasing that carrot. Instead of the carrot, I got the stick. At the end of it all, the guy I terned to teach me the word told me I got tricked. I did. I accept it as my fault. After all I believed it and bought into it. Never again. I get invited to other churches, but I have no desire to go. Why? Because they base everything they tell you on the same bit da vey did. How do you know they're telling you the truth? Faith. AS you can see the whole experience has made me very cynical. Did I enjoy da vey. I think you know the answer. SoCrates

You mean, other than that did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Here's a question that's been on my mind for ma little while. Its even got to the point where I'm researching it. You think vpw dabbled in the occult? For evidence I'll offer: Believing: which is now repackaged as the law of attraction and all the rage. (I've had two girls in Florida tell me it was their religion) Twig: I've always found it curious that twig was a group of between seven and 12 people. A covenent consists of 13 people. His heavy us of symbology. Further, he seem to have extensive knowledge of occult sciences and devil spirits, while he had to plagarize eveyone else for bibical material. All this could be circumstantial, but it just strikes me as strange. You guys and gals that where in the upper structures of the ministry. See anyting that in retrospect would suggest this? SoCrates

Indiana's expecting a blizzard today

What does this mean? Paybacks are H-E-double hockeysticks?

I'm speechless. Its one of those times I wish I knew the thing to say to make it better, but I know there's no such thing. SoCrates

My personal opinion. I think a lot of the intellectualization and over explanation was just to fatique the intellect so it would accept anything. A method very common in brainwashing. Overload the intellect, everything sinks right into the unconcious and increases suggestability. Why do you think the classes went on so long? I find the story about how vp filmed the class amuzing. I was told he filmed it for 24 hours straight, putting ice cubes on his eyes between takes. "Why film for 24 hours straight and risk burning your retinas to a crisp?" I asked. "The days are evil," was the response. And this troops is why werewolf wears glasses. He sacrificed his eyesight to teach the word of God. Yah, now we know he had ocular cancer and that's why he wore glasses. SoCrates

Thank you. I was just saying what I felt needed to be said and asking questions that had been noodling in the back of my head for a long time. As to the undisputable position category, the minisrty was full of those. "You'll go farther faster ABS than not." How would you go about proving that? "Your stepping on the hose." Again, how would you prove that? "Obey the man of God, even if he's wrong and you'll be blessed." How would you...you get the idea. Also, it strikes me we should have figured something was wrong when vpw gave one version of origional sin in the garden of eden, and lcm another. They also differed on the armor of god and AOS. SoCrates

Sorry, my error. I'll be more cautious next time. Thanks for you understanding SoCrates

That's the one where spock had to go back to his homeworld to get laid That's the one where they went to the planet that craeted things in their minds. Starts with someone seeing Peter Rabbit.

(Tips hat to old schoo) You'll love this one. My twig leader was teaching about going before the bema and recieving your rewards. He said that some will get a crown and some will get a trinket. Here's the kicker....wait for it...."And in those first few minutes there will be sorrow." SoCrates

If this is true how did God talk to vp just before vp ordered the snowstorm that never happened? SoCrates I find that in most religions. Ask them what you did wrong and why your fait failed faith failed and you get a two hour dissertation of what faith means in the bible. I'm thinking of specifically of Jehovah Witnesses back in my where-was-I-wrong days. Me? Save the dissertation, just tell me where I'm in error so I can correct it. SoCrates

He must have forgotten his time with TWI--collectivist, yet not atheist. SoCrates

(Doing the worst werewolf impression he can muster) Hi, I'm VP, my hobbies are drinking, womanizing and misinterpreting the bible.... So if your more spiritual than any of us its okay to blow your nose in the 10 commandments, not to mention what we're instructed to do in the new testament.

Whatever happened to Hays Gahagan? He was supposed to be the believer congressman or senator. I know he was from New England, I think New Hampshire. I also know that a lot of believers from all over the US traveled to New England to campaign for him. SoCrates

The book also lists his hobbies...hmmmm.

(clapping hands moronically) now do lcm, now do lcm

I was responding to Ham's comment. I was agreeing eith Ham: if one stops SITting buses continue being late, lovers contiue being untrue, politicians continue to lie, utility companies continue to overcharge and somehow reality continues on its merry way. Again, if not the minisries purpose, just what does SITting do? SoCrates

Realize it or not, if you where in da vey you were screwed--if not physically-- mentally, spirtually and morally. Socrates

I wonder the class was B.G. Leonard, how much was E.W. Bullinger, and how much he pulled out of his tail SoCrates

What would happen? Its like the government thretening to shut down if there's no continuing resolution. Wouldn't it be something if everything continued along as if nothing had happened? SoCrates

Do you know Mabel Marrero? If so, refer her to http://4mabelmarrero.zoomshare.com Thanks