So_crates

I don't know about the buildings, but the leadership seemed to spend a lot of time groping in the dark. One time, I went to my area coordinator to find out why ABS wasn't working. He told me I needed a job making $20 an hour. I asked where you find those. He hemmed and hawed and said he was going to send me to my twig leader to answer that question. I went to my twig leader, told him the area coordinator had sent me, explained the situation. My twig leader's response: "I don't know." Now, the way it usually works is once you leave a higher ups office, he calls the underling just to find out what's going on. But apparently not in TWI1. Easier to make someone chase their shadow than come up with a good, solid answer that may have accomplished something. For me, it was one of those Wile E. Coyote moments with the ministry. For all the trust and believing I had in them, I realized they were more out of the loop than a blind Chicago cab driver. My faith went SPLAT. SoCrates

In logic, that's what's known as a circular argument. It's designed to confuse more than illuminate. It's giving an answer without really giving an answer. Like Nancy Pelosi's response to what's in the Obamacare bill: "You'll have to pass the bill to find out what's in the bill." SoCrates

Not necessarily smart and deliberate, just an opportunist. SoCrates

You have to admire his can do spirit. In the face of all that's opposing him--reality, evidence, the laws of logic--he insists on: Yes, I will teach this donkey to fly; Yes, I will kiss the ministry's backside and convince myself its vanilla ice cream; Yes, I will put lipstick on this pig At this point I usually stand and wait. A few toe taps later, they reach the Wile E. Coyote moment--when they realize all their machinations have failed them and their going to go SoCrates

My, my, my, for someone who believed and trusted God, vp seems awful paranoid. What happened to fear is negative believing? SoCrates

Beware what people palm off as humor. Good jokes are good jokes because the contain some truth. The Arabs have a proverb: "If your going to speak the truth, be sure one foot's in the stirrup." There are truth's people can't accept, so we have humor. It's a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down type of thing. Why do you think, in the western, when the hero got insulted, he often retorted: "Smile when you say that." Or when somebody tells you something offensive, they often retreat behind: "I was only joking." How does this relate to the thread? Let's say said ceremony was real and palmed off as a joke. What would it be for? Has anyone inquired into what the Indian turip was used for in black magic? Surprisingly, the Indian turnip is poisonous (source). According one site, its often used to induce sterility and to draw plant spirits (source). Another site says it was often used to prevent conception (source). Another says its herbal birth control and should be ingested by both genders (source). Just some food for thought. SoCrates

And this relates to being a safe harbor---how? SoCrates

So didn't anybody bother to test the thickness of the ice before the started clearing? I forgot, believe the ice will support the tractor and it will support the tractor. Country music should write songs about how messed up that is. SoCrates

I just can't resist. SoCrates Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. SoCrates

I think the thing I've been trying to get at is, despite all the Jessica Rabbit excuses (Vp wasn't really bad, he was just drawn that way), there's a real human element to consider. Sure get out your justice scales and weight the scintila of whatever percieved good you may think he's done against the truely evil he's done. Lives were ruined, lives were wasted--and what for? Some mook in a tan furlined collar coat, coke bottle glasses, wearing a tweed hat that literally believed he was God's gift to the universe. SoCrates

[insert rimshot here] SoCrates

In post #158 of The Victoid's Ministry thread, Johniam wrote: My above post is a condensed version of the response I wrote him in that thread. Odd, he never answered any of my questions. I still would like to know who he thinks is the the real victims in Werewolfs whole demented circus. And after he's through with that I'd like to know why he's protecting the ringmaster. The shovel? My take on it is to shovel manure or snow or malarky or bologna or whatever name you want to use for sour cotton candy Werewolf was spinning. SoCrates

You have to be in the corps to do this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VPcPCwK_G0 Wow, talk about enlightenment! Go spaz suit dance dude! SoCrates

(sigh) I said it before and I'll say it again. Just who is the victim here? Those with lives Werewolf ruined, or the MOG, who you say isn't really bad, just misunderstood. When a tractor-trailer hits a pedestrian, nobody cares how the driver feels. Again, Werewolf was a man and he was entitled to his mistakes. But by being unremorseful and unrepentant he forfeited any forgiveness (from mortals) he should have gotten. By insisting on continuing on a path he knew was wrong (odd how he told everyone else to keep their pants zipped, isn't it), he forfeited any forgiveness we mortals owed him. God can do with him what he will, I have no say in that. And, finally again, so Werewolf did an occasional good thing. You can roll a turd in sugar but that doesn't make it a chocolate bismark. (sigh) Even though he's dead, the "shovel ready MOG" continues shoveling. SoCrates

Kind of makes you wonder who the next alcoholic, lying, raping, tin plated, overbearing, swaggering, dictator with delusions of godhood is waiting in the wings to be the next "shovel ready man of god," doesn't it? OMG, OMG, its the next shovel ready MOG! SoCrates

Yes, I agree A MOG has to do things. One of the things he does for us all is to set an example. After all, he represents Christ walking among us. Isn't that why we're supposed to give the MOG so much respect. Now, I don't think Christ ment for his ministry to be represented as one that approved of alcoholism, adultry, lies (plagiarism), and on and on. If I'm to buy into your view of vp, God wanted a ministry of abortions, adultry, and suicides. Do you think I want to worship a god like that? Granted, vp was a man and he was entitled to his mistakes. But by being unremorseful and unrepentant he forfeited any forgiveness (from mortals) he should have gotten. By insisting on continuing on a path he knew was wrong (odd how he told everyone else to keep their pants zipped, isn't it), he forfeited any forgiveness we mortals owed him. God can do with him what he will, I have no say in that. Discussing sports heros and MOGs is apples and oranges: Your quarterback example didn't ask for our trust. Vp did. Grant didn't claim he had the word of god as it was spoke when holy men of god were moved by the holy ghost. Vp did. Shovel ready MOG. I'll give him this: he had a shovel alright and it was always ready. And he would shovel it on at a moments notice. Saved by grace and not works huh? But then grace without works is dead. Kinda circular, isn't it? "Pus filled black and white thinking"? My first question: who's the real victim here? The people whose lives vp wrecked, or the MOG that's not really bad, just misunderstood? Why aren't you as concerned about his victims? As for vp's good works, if you roll manure in sugar, it doesn't suddenly become a custard bismark. SoCrates

In the above scenerio, this would be to keep men who would question and women who didn't interest them too busy and too tired to realize what was really going on right under their noses. SoCrates

What's to say the corps purpose wasn't to bring vps and craigmeisters harem to them? The men were just included to avoid suspicion. Think about it, can you see vp or craigmeister having a female only corps? That would have sounded a lot of alarm bells. SoCrates

Not a goodbye unless someone sings torch. SoCrates

But I bet he threw a mean Frizbee.

In logic circles its known as Distraction or Red Herring. SoCrates

Why is abbreviation such a long word? What dead language did Latin scholars have to learn? Who do atheist swear to? What do Buddist say when someone sneezes? If a restaurant's coffee taste like dishwater, what does their dishwater taste like? SoCrates

Noticed the same thing in the twigs I was in in Indiana. If I wasn't hitching 12 miles to get home after twig, I was walking an hour and a half one way. SoCrates

You know professors, revisionist all. Its much easier to say there is no word for hatred of men to prove your misogyny narrative than to crack a dictionary and see if there is one. Johniam, a bit of friendly advice. Don't buy everything the professor says, they're trying to move an agenda. Memorize it in case it shows up on a test, but search for the facts yourself. I rest my case. I"ll give you an example of what some of the loons are teaching: when I went to college in the 90s there was a professor in Washington state teaching all sex is rape--including consentual sex in marriage. Are you going to take that as a fact? SoCrates