chockfull

22 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

To to all posters.
 

This is the atheist forum and this particular thread is about raising children as atheists. Please do not go 

All right spongebob.  I'm out.  Talk to yourself

18 hours ago, Rocky said:

 

Reiterating STL's gentle request regarding you again seeming to think you (might) know what's going on inside my head.

In case you would like to actually know, you could start that other thread as STL so gently requested, and ask me for clarification. In which case, I would simply add that it is my understanding that it is NOT contrary to GSC rules to DISAGREE with points you make, positions you take, claims you state. If YOU feel attacked, that's something YOU might do or feel, not something I do to you.

Ok if it's not against GSC terms to pick at my posts and you will not agree to any modifications of your approach then I guess GSC is going to read a lot of me telling you what I think of that approach.

13 hours ago, Rocky said:

Why would you believe you have a right to demand or expect obedience or compliance or anything else from anyone?

As I understand it, that's not how life works.

Whether or not I am authentic is not something, from my perspective, that's at all dependent on whether I ever meet your expectations.

In case you MIGHT be interested, here's a gentle reminder of something someone important to me shared recently on FB. If you're not interested, by all means, disregard it.

"When someone is at war with themselves, it will be very hard for them to be peaceful with you. Remember that." 

If you want "real connection" with me, you've been going about it all wrong.

As far as what I want, from you or anyone else, is to honor emotional boundaries. I can't expect if from you by demanding it of you. I am NOT trying to woo or control or influence or manipulate you for ANY kind of relationship.

As I DID say to you recently, you and I have NO relationship of any kind that would cause me to want to manipulate you for any reason. My wholeness (emotional or otherwise) is in no way dependent on you or anyone else, either here or IRL.

Calm down.  Nobody is demanding anything. I was answering a question directly.  Your post does seem to reflect what you have quoted in bold pretty well.  The reason you would manipulate would be within yourself nothing to do with me at all.

It might have to do with the stats showing you have 14,000 plus posts when nobody else has even half that many.

I have noticed and did mention this to you that whenever the frequency of my posting increases so does the frequency of you correcting, contradicting or attacking my posts basically.  So maybe your perceived status on this site threatened or I don’t even care enough to need to know why.  I just know when the behavior occurs I am not caving in to it any more.

I was speaking in general terms regarding why I would care.  

13 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Well, I said there were two groups: the willfully ignorant AND the DUPED intent on believing inaccuracy into accuracy. My mistake was to say ONLY, so, yeah, that should be challenged. Fair enough.

The blissfully ignorant are easily duped. 

 

 

 

When I was a teenager and love bombed by the WOWs I was 100% blissfully ignorant.  I would have to say over time and conditioning that turned into willful ignorance.

Those two categories 100% still exist today.

8 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

You are going with your comments. Please start a thread dealing with your concerns.

I have no concerns to need to start a new thread.  I was answering a direct question.  Or maybe a rhetorical one depending on how it was presented 100%.  If that triggers you then maybe you should ask yourself why.

7 hours ago, Rocky said:

Why would I? Why would you care?

Because it would be a real response that could have personal insight in the subject matter.  The more authentic you are the more you are believable.  

Why I would care is that as an introvert I desire real connection and fake or inauthentic connection is irritating to me.

10 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Atheists make better parents because they do not have their children do things out of fear of being punished by a god. Only do things because it is the right thing to do.

https://www.indy100.com/news/atheists-make-better-parents-parenting-study-research-7627036

My struggle with mine was avoiding the bondage that a fundamentalist Christian view brings and avoiding cult negative other impact.

Looking back I’m sure I could have been a better parent.  I keep talking to my kids though so it’s not over yet.

On 10/4/2023 at 10:23 PM, Rocky said:

From Washington Post, today October 3, 2023: (all readers are able to read the rest of this WaPo essay for no charge because I subscribe by clicking the link)

I like to say that my kids made me an atheist. But really what they did was make me honest.

I was raised Jewish — with Sabbath prayers and religious school, a bat mitzvah and a Jewish wedding. But I don’t remember ever truly believing that God was out there listening to me sing songs of praise.

I thought of God as a human invention: a character, a concept, a carry-over from an ancient time.

I thought of him as a fiction.

Today I realize that means I’m an atheist. It’s not complicated. My (non)belief derives naturally from a few basic observations:

1. The Greek myths are obviously stories. The Norse myths are obviously stories. L. Ron Hubbard obviously made that stuff up. Extrapolate.
2. The holy books underpinning some of the bigger theistic religions are riddled with “facts” now disproved by science and “morality” now disavowed by modern adherents. Extrapolate.
3. Life is confusing and death is scary. Naturally, humans want to believe that someone capable is in charge and that we continue to live after we die. But wanting doesn’t make it so.
4. Child rape. War. Etc.

And yet, when I was younger, I would never have called myself an atheist — not on a survey, not to my family, not even to myself.

 

So after rereading some of all this your post here comes off like this is your personal story that was published in a paper.  It took reading through a couple times to determine that is not the case.

Your personal backstory which people can find on this site is you went through a contentious divorce heavily negatively influenced by the Way and relations to your one child were strained but now are healed over.

Did you have any detail to comment on this topic from your personal story?  

3 hours ago, penworks said:

I hope you're right about current leadership. But I think they have an uphill battle "covering up VPs faults," since there are hundreds of people who can testify to his narcissism, sexual abuse, plagiarism, and other "faults." Some of us speak out.

Also, there are countless families with parents from my generation (I was in the Way Corps 1971-73) whose grown children who even have children of their own now, are questioning VPW's teachings. They are turning away from how they were raised to follow VPW's ideology. They are jumping ship and rocking the boat. I hear from them regularly.

So, while many of my generation are busy running offshoot-groups or at least continuing to brainwash their kids with VPW's plagiarized bible teachings and derived mumbo jumbo, this next generation is beginning to wake up and leave. They might derail TWI outreach to the extent that it dies out by the time their kids are grown. Or not. Fundamentalist bible cults attract vulnerable people who want easy "answers" in a confusing world.

But bad and disconcerting news gets around ... and often makes people stop and think.

Yeah that’s how the BOD gets their cardio.  Whitewashing uphill.  
 

I mean doubling down on his material has to be the most illogical choice of all the possible choices available.  I mean Rico at least has new class names.  From what I hear though the content is all basically derived from our common root and even has quirky personal traits similar to how VP had all of those things that people would copy like “Thots right” in a low tone voice.  Homiletics and plagiarism.

Yes GenZ is not filling up the empty seats in the auditorium for sure they are used to questioning more which is a good thing.  I see hope for the future in my kids but they make similar mistakes to me when young.  That’s another reason to distance from cults.  I don’t need a generational repeat complete with shunning.

I hope bad news gets around - I mean the public news cycle is very negative.  But they get info directly from police blotters and FOIA requests and don’t have a BOD getting cardio by whitewashing uphill obscuring much of the story.

16 hours ago, penworks said:

First question: answer is NO.

Second question: answer is YES. Even up until she died.

 

With some victims it is possible that maintaining some form of rationalization for the past actions is necessary for them not to experience a psychotic break.

I am sorry for what happened to her and the extremity of what was necessary to live with it.

I look at the Nexim cult as to the extremity of what goes on with manipulation and control in the sex categories.  TWI will have varying degrees of that going on, or at least did in the past.

I don’t think the current leadership acts that way but they are heavily invested in covering up VPs faults there because they have doubled down on his class PFAL Today.

Just now, Rocky said:

I don't wish to continue bickering with you at this time. Are you willing to leave it at that?

I feel like you pick at me to the point you can no longer logically defend your posts, then you bail.

Leave it wherever you want to.

Just now, Rocky said:

No more than yours was.

4 minutes ago, Rocky said:

It's NOT about YOU. That's all I'm going to explain about it at this time.

Not everything you (might) take personally is actually about you.

Oh so you CAN’T explain how your statement fulfills the characteristics of an “I” statement?

Interesting…

This is an “I” statement.  It is totally not about Rocky and Stayed.  Did you know gaslighting and lying are kissing cousins?

https://www.happierhuman.com/gaslighting-vs-lying-wa1/#:~:text=%235.-,Lying is a tactic to hide the truth while gaslighting,the case with compulsive lying.

13 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Please remember that. It's actually what I statements are ALL about.

Cool.  Can you clarify how your post about definition #1 is really an “I” statement?  I didn’t read much “I” in it.  It was mostly about what you were not saying about me.  Plus the gaslighting def #1.  The only thing I felt was representative of the post you linked to about the “I” statement was you saying it was an “I” statement.  The content was not congruent to me.

20 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Respectfully, on this thread, I don't find anywhere that I apologized to you for anything. I suppose you disagree with that. If so, please point it out, specifically.

Thank you.

I wish you nothing but health and happiness, all your days. (this is NOT related to anything I may have said that you believe contradicts what I said herein).

What causes me to scratch my head is that your words seem to be saying (what you believe) is going on inside my head. Please clarify how you may have come to search out and determine what's going on between my ears. Thank you.

Yes the post was not on this thread but another.  So?  I suppose you could search for “apologize” and find it quickly.  It may only appear once or twice in your 14,000 post history.

Thanks for the well wishes.

I don’t know what is going on inside your head.  Just what you post.

6 minutes ago, Rocky said:

I have no insight about any aspect of your health, mental or otherwise.

I disagreed with you. I did not make any statement, implicit or explicit about you.

I guess I need to go quote your post here too?  Go review the post where you supposedly apologized and read it again.  Like Stayed who first claimed to never have said “started”?

After reading the “I” statement article what I can say is “I feel like you two are gaslighting me because you deny previous posts and call them inadvertent mistakes and you forget and mischaracterize the content of previous posts to make yourselves look better”

5 hours ago, Rocky said:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/gaslighting I don't believe chockfull's claim about inadvertently making mistakes constitutes gaslighting is at all correct.

Gaslighting is an insidious form of manipulation and psychological control. Victims of gaslighting are deliberately and systematically fed false information that leads them to question what they know to be true, often about themselves. They may end up doubting their memory, their perception, and even their sanity. Over time, a gaslighter’s manipulations can grow more complex and potent, making it increasingly difficult for the victim to see the truth.

So rather than cherry picking the definition why don’t you link the reference?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gaslighting

Also if you actually read the entire article in Psychology today it’s real easy to identify the tactics I am mentioning getting people to doubt their own memory by feeding them misinformation. 

4 hours ago, Rocky said:

Please NOTE: this is an "I" statement. It is NOT an accusation about any aspect of chockfull's intentions, mental states/conditions, or actions is ANY way.

What is an “I” statement and how do you distinguish it from sounding you are talking directly about the person you are posting about?

The easy question is “then why did you post it in the context of an argument except to infer association”?

Does an “I” statement mean that you are the one that represents the definition you posted?

Stayed I can’t copy your Bs from inside the box to answer.  It’s so tedious to respond when you post like that where I can’t quote your post.  It does obscure what you say so that you can deny it later.  I find a number of those examples.

So tldr on the last one.  Yes both you clowns are performing #2 definition right here.

And you’re both triggered.

You both are highly manipulative posters.

Rocky your apology was for contradicting me which 100% of the audience knows that wasn’t what I called you out on.  And in the same post as your “apology” you called out my mental health in question.  So you and your apology can ride out on the same horse.

5 hours ago, Rocky said:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/gaslighting I don't believe chockfull's claim about inadvertently making mistakes constitutes gaslighting is at all correct.

Gaslighting is an insidious form of manipulation and psychological control. Victims of gaslighting are deliberately and systematically fed false information that leads them to question what they know to be true, often about themselves. They may end up doubting their memory, their perception, and even their sanity. Over time, a gaslighter’s manipulations can grow more complex and potent, making it increasingly difficult for the victim to see the truth.

Oh look the gangs all here 

I was going by Merriam Webster dictionary definition #2

“the act or practice of grossly misleading someone especially for one’s own advantage”

 But thanks for playing.

PS I don’t buy your BS about inadvertently making mistakes.  You know exactly what you are doing posting BS

1 hour ago, Stayed Too Long said:

 

Hey anybody that technically performs the act of gaslighting is gaslighting.  It sounds like you were triggered by hearing the definition of it.

Maybe you wanna blame your good buddy Merriam Webster.

Yeah.  You don’t read apparently which adds to the issues.

Look back at your first response to me 3 posts up and tell me one more time how it’s my imagination you used the word “started” .  It’s real hard to miss it’s the 9th word of your post.

Just to point out - when something real occurs but you deny it and accuse it being in someone’s imagination, that practice is called “gaslighting”

4 minutes ago, Stayed Too Long said:

 

No you were not “merely pointing out” I’m not doing this again.  I gave a reason for my personal past decision regarding kids.

You didn’t like that I said atheism is a label used to target by fundamentalist Christians.  Is that statement untrue?   No it is 100 percent true.

Then you twisted my statement and contradicted it by citing a dictionary and saying oooh no it wasn’t “started” by fundamentalist Christians.

I never said “started”.  

I am going to stop posting personal details because God doesn’t want me casting pearls before swine.

You in the analogy are a jack@$$ that is represented by the swine comparison just to completely clarify.

I’m out.

1 hour ago, Stayed Too Long said:

 

Sweet picking at my personal sharing.  Who the f cares what Merriam-Webster says.

So I’m wrong I’m not worrying about them being an atheist according to a dictionary?

What about you? So you have kids?  Are you married?  What is your skin in the game in all this beyond “it occurred to me while driving”?

If you wanna raise kids via dictionaries then try it and tell me how it goes.

Thats the last personal info sharing I’m giving on this thread.  And mostly why I don’t share personal things much here as there’s always that one person.