chockfull
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Posts posted by chockfull
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That is quite a website. It looks like a similar layout for a number of different cults.
I have no idea who put it up. It looks like it was done with a bot or LLM tool. For every claim they state they cite a source. So even if some of the claims seem exaggerated they literally have a source where a leader or account verifies the statement.
This type of activity is a great counter to the whitewash movement. With sources for everything it is protected legally as well as it shows what really occurred as opposed to a leaders spin on what occurred.
In other words, this website is a great model for TWI where they could learn about footnotes, bibliographies, and other modern methods in the publishing and academic industries. You know, the things missing from all of VPs “research”.
The website also with footnotes make it harder for the TWI leadership to deny claims and justify actions.
Every claim made is substantiated by a footnote.
Wow, what an earth shattering idea.
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6 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:
I wish they’d knock on my door. If only I could believe big enough, they would.
Some have claimed all you need to say to a Jay Dub is, “I’ve been disfellowshipped.” Apparently, it’s like kryptonite to Superman, or like a question to victor paul wierwille.Anyone have experience with this tactic?
“What’s the best way to get a JW to leave you alone?”https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/s/XROxSUO8D2
I have relatives that are J dubs. There’s a number of things you can do - ask if that’s the group of false prophets that can’t tell who is anointed and have missed Jesus return date about 10 times…
Talk about SIT they think it’s of the devil.
Whatever you say though never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever take one of their Watchtower publications, Awake magazines or whatever they hand you. Just a heads up.
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10 hours ago, So_crates said:
A woman in her 40s just came to my door and started to pitch knowledge in the bible.
"Ma'am, I'm going to save you a lot of time," I told her. "I'm not interested in joining church."
"This isn't for a church," she said, "we're just sharing what we know from the bible." She started back into her pitch pointing to the tract she had.
"Ma'am, I was with The Way International for the better part of my life."
At that point she said "Okay", terminated the conversation and went on her way to the next house.
Could she have been with The Way?
It's the abrupt termination that makes me wonder.
It’s hard to tell with those details. What was the tract she was holding? Was it from some organization?
I always answer the door with Mormon missionaries by saying “oh I see you gentlemen are out looking for some help with your tie selection.”
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On 11/12/2023 at 6:48 PM, Ham said:
I dunno. I like a simpler answer of about 3 seconds.. maybe because God still loves me.. heh. Doesn't give me pretty much any other of a choice.. heh.
I’m with you on this. My faith message needs to be short enough so I don’t get lost explaining it.
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I’m getting to her testimony but dear baby Jesus on a pogo stick they have more “woke” labels starting out that podcast than I can even concentrate on. Hopefully that won’t obscure her message.
Well she seems to talk all around the topic as opposed to addressing the commonly held definitions of Christianity.
Jesus and John Wayne seems to attack the male image in religion - the topic seems more “wokism” than “faith” regardless of the truth of male dominated organizations.
I agree with her sentiments on feeling the need to prove her background and views especially labels like “Calvinist”.
Christianity to me is from the heart and judged by God not some kind of 90 page questionnaire checking boxes on aligned theology.
She has good advice on having a thick skin if you are going to explore your faith in an online community. Lol.
Christianity with a non Fundamentalist view is very different to all of us raised in Fundamentalist teachings. We expect an exact answer to everything when that is not realistic and is not life.
She talks about her circle of influence and keeping them valuable and positive. She talks about her church - Reformed Christian not Evangelical Christian - that can help differentiate and navigate common modern organizations. She has her niche and her circle of friends. That is good.
I get really lost trying to place her inner faith message with all of the modern and woke labels and descriptions.
Accepting variances of views in other Christians while still working with them praying with them interacting and doing ministry work with them to me is the crux of all the teachings on one body of Christ which TWI has missed for decades generations and most of their lifetimes.
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5 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:
Someone made a comment on another board that permitted a feeling of hope in me, but it was fleeting.
He said that English doesn't have a third person command like Greek. This was his reason for the translation "Let there be light" in Genesis, (which was written in Hebrew).
His comment gathered no traction. Credit goes to all the other posters for ignoring him.
Sounds exactly like something victor would say, but there might be a kernel in this idea. A tremendous kernel. I'm open, but remain unconvinced.
Ok this is stirring up remembering some language studies. The point I remember was the imperative voice in verbs. It is in koine Greek where Jesus does the Lord’s Prayer throughout all those verbs. I don’t think the equivalent exists in Hebrew or Aramaic.
I don’t know if that equates to a passive voice in “let there be light”. Maybe so. Would Zeus say “Light” as a command?
I don’t have a burning need to make all the jigsaw puzzles fit. I view the OT as primitive times technology wise and ethics wise. So I accept the dichotomy of vision.
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19 hours ago, Ham said:
In a practical sense religions either hate or reject me because that I view the individuals involved at the very least.. as equals. I am not inferior to you..
the last religion at my door threatened me with the most eternal fire and wrath that their religion might have to offer.. heh
some here have dealt with this..
This is why I love the wizard of Oz. It shows the little person behind the large act.
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17 hours ago, Raf said:
I disagree.
1. Who is that author? What are his credentials? Where did he study? What are his sources? We genuinely have NO IDEA. Amazon tells us nothing.
He does have a website. Doesn't she'd much light. He's a Trinitarian, so that rules out a Wierwille clone. Still could have had some intersection with TWI. But not enough to render a verdict either way [technically, that's a not guilty, but I'd go with a hung jury].
2. This is one guy. You said referenceS. Plural. But can you find another one that's clearly not TWI influenced? I couldn't. I tried, and came up with the same guy.
Others clearly have TWI fingerprints.
I mean, it's a Bullinger doctrine. Surely TWI didn't originate it.
Sure. Here’s a Voice of Elijah website discussing it.
That describes more of the general pattern of Hebrew idioms. Some of these seem to have apostolic roots which is Pentecostal.
Pretty different from TWI and Bullinger.
I would present the idea that it is a common way to explain violent acts of God in the OT.
And that it represents nothing more than not giving criminals press time. While telling a story of a sovereign God.
Perhaps the catch phrase “idiom of permission” itself was a Bullinger classification. But not the idea.
I get some value from Bullingers figures of speech. And from Darbys lists. And from Josephus cultural accounts.
I am sure Bullinger would have excommunicated VPW from whatever denomination he was part of for using his works in a way he didn’t intend. If they lived in the same time.
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Yeah well it’s not that hard to find other references
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No English lit degrees nor am a grammar teacher. Yes shocking I know lol.
Here are some notes on the Hebrew idiom of permission from the Revised English Version
No connection to TWI there ….
Yeah edit. My phone died I just saw this was a Schoenheit translation.
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18 hours ago, Charity said:
I just came across this website about Jesus not being God and wondered if anyone knows a Kevin Gregg from twi?
https://www.theonenessofgod.org/connect/
C I looked that up and he is from a “One God Apostolic” denominational background. Which is Pentecostal. Which is all of the Branham stuff in another thread here.
Here is the organization thread for Kevin’s One God Apostolic site. It is mentioned at the bottom of his website.
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Sooooo.
Would there be a religion called “Twiggianity”?
A cult offshoot of the “Churchianity” religion?
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Imagine modern day despots……
Who are actually atheists.
Ok that’s my attempt at writing another verse…
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22 hours ago, Twinky said:
I want a real book. Not very interested in more screen time.
I relate to this. I like the texture of books.
I have used this option as kind of like the book feel instead of more time on the same phone or tablet. Don’t know if it will help if not ignore lol.
Kindle Paperwhite
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3 hours ago, Raf said:
See, "God-like mind reading capabilities" is what turns clear writing into "he didn't mean that, he was using the idiom of permission that I made up."
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"God says what he means and means what he says!"
Fine. Here's what he says.
"He didn't mean that."
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Sorry, I'm not the one doing the mindreading. Just the Biblereading
I am a little less on the side of God says what He means and means what He says option as I feel that is too extreme of an interpretation of inspired writing that leads to denominations and cults. My viewpoint is denouncing fundamentalism but not the overall Christianity message and concepts.
This leads me to view scripture more as a muse behind the writings as opposed to automatic writing dictation. The latter to me produces a “Stepford wives” result that seems independent from whatever message is being peddled. It seems very susceptible also to the Machiavellian pettiness present in all the worlds systems as opposed to a grassroots message to free the individual. I feel that the muse view preserves the individual as well as the grassroots message.
Of course my views are = .06 with inflation lol.
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Matt 24 presents a contradiction in timelines for sure. This is one that has foiled the JWs through multiple generations of failed prophecy regarding the so called end times.
I have heard explanations that sound like rationalizations from multiple sources.
I don’t have a better explanation but am more inclined to go with the face value of Jesus was wrong or didn’t know and was guessing.
Can a man without sin be wrong? I had previously thought the answer was “only if that man is married” lol. But is Jesus proving me wrong once again?
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23 hours ago, Raf said:
Jokes aside, I think the simplest expression of my thought is:
The idiom of permission was not the intent of the original writers. It only became necessary when the character of Yahweh developed into someone who would never do what earlier scriptures clearly said he did.
And yet this sounds remarkably like a position in an argument.
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
The “intent of the original writers” huh? So in dropping the idea of an imaginary God you have replaced it with God like mind reading capabilities that you possess? Hmmmm.
Or could it just be older writers are writing about rougher times?
And could it also be that 100 percent of us here bought into VPWs snake oil and could be labeled “idiots of permission”???
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On 11/3/2023 at 7:44 PM, cman said:
Boston now.......
Peace of Mind
This is a bit
but ever since I watched the movie “Men Who Stare at Goats” I have had to construct a Boston road-trip playlist that really captures this.
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Twinky you can get both of Charlene’s books on Kindle. Do a search for author.
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To me the idiom of permission is similar to some of the practices I see changing in reporting the news. They used to highly publicize all three names of any offender including doing foia requests for booking shots.
More recently they have refrained from publishing the serial killers names prominently in shooting incidents so as not to give them the attention or press they seek.
My understanding of the IOP is basically God is inspiring the same kind of thing so that the entire subject of the OT is not Satan, his angels, and his influenced subjects.
Bringing up Occam reminds me of an old story. A guy walks into a bathroom stall and reads “God is dead”. Nietsche. Underneath the guy crossed it out and wrote “Nietsche is dead”. God.
Is it ironic that the closest thing now to Occam is dirt and daisies?
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I wonder if all of the followers of the Way approve of using their tithes to send postcard spam to every physical mail location of a grad in their “book of life” database.
What's next?
I know they can transform into a “Watchtower Society” type of publication group making comic books for witnessing with middle school level topics. Then each Way Ambassador could pass them out during mandated door to door witnessing outings. And they could report weekly on how many new people they have for Plaffy. Oh wait they already do that.
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On 10/18/2023 at 5:13 PM, Nathan_Jr said:
I don't disagree.
If this is the case, then Christ's forgiveness is self forgiveness.
If Christ is present within, or, more emphatically, powerfully, Christ is inseparable from us, then the forgiver is the forgiven.
I can relate to this logic.
If we solve our own problems with Christ’s help then there is no place for the narcissist in the equation.
People can choose freely their own future without needing to be entangled with the bondage others seek to profit from a Christ -> believer relationship.
And I can freely give to the most deserving without obligation.
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It is very PT Barnum like. The greatest show on earth. There's a sucker born every minute.
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11 hours ago, Ham said:
Squirrels are connected to Everything. All you had to do was ask.. :)
Yes I see.
Nostalgia Bias
in About The Way
Posted
I ran across this article in Psych Today talking about “nostalgia bias” where people attach to and recollect only positive things about their past.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/checkpoints/202302/exploring-nostalgia-bias
I wonder if nostalgia bias is what keeps many of these people who have been abused by TWI hanging around and pushing for better times.
Nostalgia bias would be a huge reason behind the modern TWI push of going back to PFAL and back to the “Word Over the World” messaging. Taking items from the highest participation period in the cults history the strategic approach is to make the Way “feel” like the good ole days in the hippie times where people were strumming guitars in parks and witnessing and thousands were “taking the class”.
Nostalgia bias can keep people hanging around doing the same things sending in the same checks listening to the same stories obeying the same dictators. It can keep people only reading the same “collaterals” for decades without ever considering new and better sources.
I actually am opposed to the nostalgia bias making my life’s decisions and want to and am purposefully crafting my future in the direction best for me, my family, my peace of mind, and my spiritual development outside the constrained inputs from a cult.