chockfull

17 hours ago, Rocky said:

Thanks for bumping the thread. I just viewed this YT video from 60 MInutes coverage of AI, several segments, one of which is from 2109.

One of the important points 60 Minutes made, is that AI is NOT always correct. 

When an AI makes mistakes and says things that are NOT true, the industry calls those instances "hallucinations."

IIRC, when I first (or shortly thereafter) saw the cultfacts website entry for TWI, my impression was 1) it was built by AI, and 2) it was not 100 percent correct, even though it had notes/citations for the claims it made.

Now, I am not as concerned about whether TWI will challenge the factual basis or legality of the claims. However, I still wonder how they've responded/reacted to it.

Ok first I am not 100 percent certain AI was involved at all with this site so I don’t know how AI hallucinations might come into play or not.  It may be involved as a tool or not.  Second the fact that generated items may not be true in < 5 percent of cases does not mean “discount the source if AI was involved”.

I’m sure though that TWI leadership finds ANY reason WHATSOEVER to discount external sources.  JWs and Mormons do the same.  First question is “is this an approved source?”  If not they label it an “apostate” source and excommunicate any bringing it up due to superstition.  Usually the response to new technologies are call them devilish and warn people away.

I am sure that “innies” will not like the “feel” of that site as it ties the current leaders to the past culture which they are so desperately trying to distance themselves from while retaining all the power.

This does not discount footnotes, sources, bibliographies as these are proof and factual.

Did you find even one example of a footnoted source that was inaccurate or are you just spreading false rumors?

I’m not bothered by any of this discussion.  This gets down to what people look to for inspiration.

If there is some kind of common code for virtue a society can agree on it helps things flow in a community type of construct.

If there is not then you have megalomaniacs setting themselves up as the sole source for virtue.  And varying degrees of disagreement based upon the success of the narcissistic message.

Bumping this up again.  
 

https://www.cultfacts.com/cults/the-way-international

It is just amazing how with every claim they make of cult behavior they footnote it and cite the source.  Look at all those (source) links.

This is not a manipulation this is real live sources presenting how a cult really functions as opposed to their brain numbing depiction of themselves as Jesus Christs personal representatives of “the truth” as opposed to a false prophets ministry based upon deception and manipulation.   The closer you get to the so-called revelation from God about teaching VP “the Word” like it hasn’t been known since the first century the more you see that nobody in the first century was quite that gullible and would not accept VPs lazy research, lying and stealing, or aggrandized homiletics as anything other than a narcissist with opportunities to amass a fortune through aggrandized fictional tales.  This mimics the way the Mormon cult amasses riches.
 

Another cult called “The Twelve Tribes”. They run Yellow Deli restaurants.  Here is an expose:

When there’s an older sibling in the Stepford family.  

20 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

For those who've never heard of it, "Hunt Close" is a book written about raising hunting dogs.  It espouses a POV that's rejected by modern dog trainers, which is to reward the dog when he does well and punish him thoroughly any time he does poorly.   The result, according to modern trainers, is a dog that does what the trainer wants WHEN THE TRAINER IS WATCHING, but otherwise not. 

vpw recommended this book for training dogs and for raising children.

That vpw didn't really raise children OR train dogs while giving advice on both is a point that was lost early on.

Yes this bullshonta was a lot of what was behind the Nazi patrols with wooden spoons on campuses (and elsewhere in recreated environments) that would ensure the little kids were behaving, in bed not roaming halls, sitting quietly on their blankets, and in complete compliance with all the adult with the spoons wishes.  Or they would be beat literally.

Communal corporal punishment was the result in the Ways communities and societies.  Still exists in many pockets today as that doctrinal error really has never been brought up and corrected.

We didn’t raise our kids that way or permit bullies to usurp our parental authority and beat our children.

On 12/18/2023 at 1:42 PM, Nathan_Jr said:

Tell me you’re in a cult without telling me you’re in a cult.

Why the vinyl?

 

It was en vogue at the time to get rid of all your “old man music”.  Monkey see monkey do for me.

19 hours ago, WordWolf said:

The name of the book was "HUNT CLOSE."    (We've had threads on that one before.)

Yeah it didn’t move the GAF meter enough to remember .  Thats the one.  
 

VP wanted those kids completely compliant so he could HUNT CLOSE to his home for sexual prey.

4 hours ago, Rocky said:

Were those (or any of those) people wayfers or former twi? I appreciate the feedback. Thanks.

Yes 100 percent of the people with the condescending Holocaust comments were TWI - when I was in.  

The comments fit right in line with all the other condescension regarding “rightly dividing the Word” which TWI couldn’t do with a razor blade a right angle and step by step instructions.

All straight from the head pilferer who rightly plagiarized the word of truth.  

1 hour ago, Rocky said:

Thanks. I'm curious about the cultural impact of the three highlighted books, if anyone has any info or anecdotes.

Again, I'm NOT inviting political discussion. Just remembrances or documents. Thanks. 

Btw, I have -- in my Kindle library -- a copy of Dale Carnegie's book. Of course, it was included because (I figure) it's still a major salesmanship book. As well as having in my Kindle library a copy of a collection of Harvard Classics. Various versions of these anthologies can be obtained on Amazon for between $.99 and $4.99. I suspect they were included for general studies purposes.

The first one pretty much alienates Catholics the 3rd largest Christian group.  The second two label TWI as anti Semitic.  So cuts off a large group also.

With incidents I have heard plenty about smug condescending arses at Holocost diaplays museums etc.  People who can’t STF up from spouting their so called expertise on the topic.

Other book list stuff

Starr Dailey - Love Can Open Prison Doors

George Mueller - Autobiography, Release the Power of Prayer

I liked those and didn’t feel they had tainted root material like others.

2 hours ago, cman said:

there is probably a list of books to burn too, a big one

typical nazi propaganda

I think VPs tactic was to silently incorporate some conspiracy theory garbage into his “advanced class materials” that has anti Semite and neo Nazi type thought lines, and leave it as material the “initiated” knew and had access to.  

As far as burn basically “Uncle Harry Day” was celebrated as an annual burn chaff day consisting of theological material, old vinyl which everyone regrets now and other artifacts of various things.  So an annual purge culture with the different programs “what to bring” lists comprising other forced purges.

Definitely has neo Nazi flavor to it.

Babylon Mystery Religion

Thirteenth Tribe

Harvard Classics (I have a set)

Dale Carnegie - How To Win Friends and Influence People, The Art of Public Speaking, How to Stop Worrying and Start Living

The Tracker - Tom Brown Jr

Myth of the Six Million

Luther the Reformer

Foxs Book of Martyrs

The Encyclopedia of Occult Sciences - from Adv Class list

some cr@p on raising kids like training dogs.

Many others on the “Corps Reading list”.  I don’t have a copy of that any more wonder if any do.

13 hours ago, Rocky said:

My IMPRESSION of Jennifer's essay is that she was citing data. I wanted to hear and relate to her STORY.

This TED Talk given in February 2021, by Karen Eber, on how your brain responds to stories, and why they are CRUCIAL (for anyone wanting to get the attention of their readers and listeners).

What do you want to do with your STORY?

I hope you want your stories to matter more than they'd be if they were only facts.

 

Well from the details I’ve read you shouldn’t have to worry.  The girl plans to only leave the account up and public for a short period of time.  Who knows, maybe due to online critics?

Again can you please take your push for whatever your agenda is to your own thread?  

I don’t want to do anything with “my story”.  Those who know me and love me know it.  Others hear parts of it.  I really could care less how TED talk says your brain responds to it.  And I have zero desire to make “my story” “matter more”.

i mean start a topical part of the forum for “Creative Writing” or “Memoir Writing” or “Journaling” for chrissake!

“Sand” - Donnie Fugit

one of the few I miss…

I actually think exactly the opposite.  This girl was involved with TWI only 2 years and look at all the detrimental effects she suffered.

That to me speaks so much more loudly than whatever authenticity you think she is missing by including others stories also footnoted.

7 hours ago, Rocky said:

How and why did the author decide to associate with TWI? Who told her what? How did she feel when the first person/people witnessed to her?

That's something that might grasp the attention of a reader.

Each of us here on GSC has her/his/their own story to tell... tell IT.

ok now you have hijacked this thread with 5 posts in a row that the topic is Undertow and writing memoirs including why we should do it.

Can you please go start your own thread with this line of discussion?  Or continue it on the thread entitled “Undertow”?

One post or two is one thing but 5 in a row on a completely separate topic is a hijacking of the thread.

And please think about how you are coming off commenting about those who ARE writing memoirs.

This girl was in TWI for 2 years a relatively short period of time wrote her own story augmented by others notes all footnotes.

Are you celebrating her?  Or has this been more of a page or two containing criticism of how she did it as well as a running line of attack on her story.

7 hours ago, Rocky said:

I've been trying to figure out why this substack doesn't sit right with me.

The way this person wrote it, she is NOT telling HER story.

That won't mean anything to anyone who needs to hear HER STORY.

Her story might help people needing to escape the cult or wise up before they get caught up in it.

This quote is just weak sauce.

WHAT did this human see and hear? Did SHE experience an unwanted pregnancy? If so, how did it make her feel? How did she cope with the emotional and medical ramifications of the pregnancy? What was HER outcome?

Maybe this human writer needs to read some of the work on vulnerability Brené Brown has published.

Btw, a discussion about abortion policies in and of itself is a political topic.

A retelling of history of TWI is retelling of historical events. For them to matter to readers, they have to come off as authentic.

She has a blend of her story plus supporting evidence which consists of others stories all with referenced sources unlike “the collaterals”.

i mean maybe those of you heavily invested in writing memoirs can figure out how to stay in first person and come off “more authentic”.

Rather than be irritated by her switching from first person to third person voice I look at it like at least she did a better job than her “father in da Verd”.

The Way Internationals continual denial of plagiarism claims has karma coming back around to bite them in the butt with accurately footnoted anecdotal accounts of immorality.

24 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Thanks, Cockfull!

A quote from the linked substack:

 It was constantly reinforced that women were inferior in teaching and treatment and we were told not to use any birth control, leading to many unwanted pregnancies. The Way would then support and pay for abortions, which were not a sin according to their teachings.

 

So, abortion is the only form of birth control endorsed by TWI.

What accuracy! What mathematical exactness! What scientific precision!

Mmmph! 

 

(A perfect dovetail with another presently active thread.)

I had a PE coach in HS that told a bunch of us one day that after getting to know us for a semester, he was going to recommend retroactive birth control.  

Now back to regularly scheduled abortion convo.

2 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Victor P. Wierwille! 

The version of this someone sent me yesterday had a claim about it being illegal to quote Way Corps grads. That was a deal breaker for me. But this one, though VERY long appears to not have that claim in it. I appreciate her formatting of Victor's name.

Yes that sounds strange with the “illegal to quote WC grads” thing.  Yet her account references 2 Way Corps examples - Victor Barnard and Steve Sann who I would say examples like that you could experience just about anything there.  It wouldn’t surprise me to see an ultra control freak say that.

Another personal account of damage experienced by a member of TWI.  This person highlights the step by step indoctrination process….

https://jenniferhaha.substack.com/p/black-friday-cyber-monday-cult-expose?utm_campaign=post

9 minutes ago, Ham said:

It seems that others have asked the same question.

 

OMG I’m dying lol.  Help help I’m being repressed.  Oh I so need to watch Monty Python Holy Grail again.

7 hours ago, Raf said:

See, that's my problem. If it's history, it's not credible and the only reason to discuss it is politics.

If we're talking about doctrine, there's really nothing debatable about it. Yeah, God said this land is your land. Doctrinally. But history can't even document the existence of Abraham, never mind God. And if we're going to allow divine real estate transactions to determine land rights, there are probably a handful of Native American believers in the Great Spirit who have a problem or two with our current state borders.

Oh, but THEIR Great Spirit is not God. Got it.

Yeah you start to mix up politics and religion and real estate then you have a real mess.

Or a new tv series idea lol 

With Israel more recent history implies a few warring tribes with conflict dating back a thousand years.  It’s just one of them has nukes and Western support.

Native Americans rather than having the Great Spirit define their living boundaries have instead had a cruel government dictate them, and ensure generational poverty by giving them an acre of land and a crappy model home.  Alaskan natives fared better with their deals with the government happening much later.  They own a piece of the oil pipeline and are rich.  So many native corporations now are winning government contract bids in many different areas.

I can’t do a thing about the Israel conflict all I can do is keep a good relationship with my own neighbors and pray and hope for the best.

Thanks for posting up the prevalent views in the topic guys.

You know if TWI leadership actually had an honest heart before God they would not be shunning us here they would be celebrating us.  

Their followers are too scared of being shunned to tell them the truth.  We are not.  We tell them the truth whether they want to whitewash it or not.  Whether they want to kill the messenger or not.

But they hate the truth.  They love their positions and adulation.  They love having articles about how great they are in public magazines broadcast to the few that will cave in to be under their thumb.

With the greater independent thought of the youth in todays world that is less and less people all the time.

Send out another postcard run.  Tell yourself how that is moving “the Word” over the world.  At least the Gideons place something of use in public that someone can open, read, pray to God with.  Not a hype postcard.

I can see the court interaction now.  
 

“That site is inaccurate and slanderous”.

Judge:  “Every statement on the website has a footnoted source.  Which is more than you can say for your main class PFAL”

Lol