chockfull

It is uncanny to me the parallels between Mormons and TWI. It’s like the Mormons are the “big brother cult” to TWI. What I mean by that is not that there is any contact or shared doctrine. But the interplay of human nature all working with the leadership organization setup all show the same patterns TWI is going through and coming up with on a larger scale with 17m followers not 5000 ish. Whitewash the cultishness - check. Now they hate the term Mormon and prefer the full LDS title. Looks more Christian. Family values and celestial kingdoms and rules. Looks wholesome to the outside. Hides the politics on the inside. President Nelson is all about winning new people and is hyper focused on building temples all over the world. This magnifies him but he says it magnifies Christ. Meanwhile you have a cult extracting a tithe regardless of anything else for a temple recommendation. It is the epitome of hypocrisy for the bishops to sit with each member and document the tithe while at the same time the riches of the whole Mormon kingdom are not even known but they can spend $100M on the mall closest to their Salt Lake City temple, putting in a retracting ceiling for the comfort of shoppers buying Mormon product. They enrich themselves and their centers and neglect their own poor. I am so glad I took this cult class as it has my mind focusing on patterns of behavior as opposed to the sales pitches involved. Or recognizing the sales pitches. And yes the class teacher fully admits in the intro that there is no specific definition for a cult that holds true across examples. Just patterns of behavior. And the overall feel of overstepping boundaries that should be in place for normal people.

Look seeing people censor information is nothing new. On the exmormon Reddit there are multiple accounts on a weekly basis of families whose kids bring up the facts in cesletters and the families shut them down refusing to even look at the facts. The Q15 has adequately convinced people that due to the superstition they injected that the facts on that website are somehow tainted because the source hasn’t been approved by leadership. So superstition keeping people blind is actually an age old tactic. Call some element “evil” or “hate based” and then it is a rationalization to not consider the facts involved. Oh and then VP covered that too teaching that facts are man made but spiritual truth is God made. Look VP was part good part evil like any man. Due to his narcissistic nature though he built things up around himself. He grew entitled, enjoyed “the good life” based on a wild spending of other people’s money including motor coaches and airplanes. The big airplane was never really needed. Then it fell apart but left a nest egg that other lowlifes have latched onto and created a system and organization to keep them living “the good life”. But the problem is that to keep that going on they had to whitewash the image of VP. It is very clear in human nature that crimes of cover up often easily exceed the original crimes in magnitude. So cover up the adultery the lying and stealing and the unstable prima donna behavior. So TWI 4 is basically 3 generations of covering up the “1942 promise” and has led to greater and greater evil impact just due to the nature of the original. And they are 100% blind keeping the same tactics as ever with sales professionals at the top setting sales goals for volunteers and then all the little hamsters on all the little wheels running their little hearts out to “run another class and double the numbers by each one reach one”. So no all the people who gave up their youth pursuing a previous version of that coverup story aren’t keen to sacrifice another round of suffering for nostalgia sake. This one is more keen to keep distance and keep telling the truth regardless of the exercising hamsters.

When the devil reminds you of your past you remind him “that you’re not the one who lost their soul to a fiddle player in Georgia biatch”.

It might also be that the sadness is the precious baby lord Jesus crying orange tears…

Hey Raf, Wow you post here still? Cool good to hear some thoughts. I mean the nature of the ascension ensures there is plenty of physical record of Christ becoming slowly absent. The contention comes in with the relative absence or presence of his nature in those who propose to be experts in his words. A couple millennium past his physical presence and plenty of fools construct mountains of nonsense with his words to ensure the slavery of others and the ease of their own lives. Thus making Christ absent in every sense of the word. Physically, mentally, spiritually, morally.

I think when VPW taught that sincerity is no guarantee for the truth that is what they call a “Freudian slip”.

Funny I just don’t see that playing out in Jesus life and example in any fashion. He portrayed a lot of emotion as well as sharp logic. What I most certainly do see suppressed all the time is common logic due to emotional attachment. When you make a habit of suppressing things it leaks out in other areas.

Interesting discussion. The 2 Peter section is so highly used in PFAL that I am finding distance from that doctrine helpful in sorting things out. From a 15,000 foot level it seems that Peter is working to establish the value of spoken and written revelation when compared to their eyewitness accounts. Practically in the first century they all would have had to make that transition. From Jesus being with them and constantly correcting them and upgrading their logic to now disciplining the mind to scriptures or writings of revelation doing that. This was the first century Gutenberg press. From experience to writing. So a trust level has to be established in written revelation. But what level is appropriate? The fundamentalists take it down to the jot and tittle level causing plenty of problems. Most of the problems were already in living color in the form of Pharisees and scribes and Sadducees. So Jesus teaching and confrontations of those groups are key to achieving the proper balance. I have come full circle to the more simple viewpoint that Peter is just teaching to trust scripture like you would if you saw the events personally. Because you need the encouragement. A written guide is less impactful than a personal interaction. I disagree with VPWs “gift ministry” teachings. The fruit I see of that teaching is a bunch of egotistical idolators with VPW statues on their desks all saying “look at me and my importance”. I think that section of scripture speaks of service to others in the body not magnifying your ego with an extra special title and recognition of importance. Nobody is more special in the body of Christ than any other. That is why the whole Way tree hierarchy is another Tower of Babel. It is a pyramid scheme focused on bringing blessings to the top, however well whitewashed and hidden they are. So apostles and prophets just serve people. A lot of that service in the first century supported the transition from spoken revelation to the written scripture. They helped. They don’t need statues nor would want them.

ChatGPT is the latest craze in AI. It is complex enough to assemble info from the internet and has possibilities of supplanting Google search as its a higher level AI implementation. It can perform first order tier tasks pretty well, even programming tasks. It does fall down on second tier tasks like modifying the programming task in a specific way. Using it to double check logic would be a very good use of the tool. It can help authors write. The output text is very accurate, yet pretty vanilla with respect to expression. One CEO used it to write a letter laying off employees while incorporating a motivational quote. She is getting filleted on media now as someone duplicated the letter with a couple simple commands.

So looking through your reference material it seems that 2 of the 4 views are historical and not widely held currently - the two that are most prevalent today are idealist and futurist views. The futurist view looks at everything from Chap 4 on as unfolding in a future time. This view is tied to dispensationalism and it is directly mentioned that the Left Behind series is from this perspective. The idealist view looks at the book as entirely or mostly symbolic to a spiritual warfare. I don’t feel entirely comfortable with either view so I am probably somewhere in the middle of these 2. I don’t think a strict fundamentalist view makes sense to me any longer. And I’m not a poet that reads for symbolism or picture entertainment. There are inherent challenges with futurist as it would mean that Johns revelation had little to no current meaning at the time written. The idealist perspective leaves the Bible as an entertaining read but not much meaning. So maybe like one of the articles says i am turning Methodist which they say accepts multiple interpretations of scripture. I didn’t know that is what they said of themselves.

Ok this is not tremendously scholarly but I did get a chance to read the “Left Behind” series by Tim LaHaye. It is a kind of mostly fictional series of novels about the end times in the book of Revelation. My perception of it was I enjoyed it and the authors did far less speculation on elements in the book than others do in non fiction. At any rate it was an entertaining read and worth it for perspective from my viewpoint.

I've attended a few churches that have more of a rock concert modern type of worship format. They are kinda cool compared to a twig like format. The splinter salesmen have not had much success with me either. I'm not really looking for a scenario with the same doctrine and fellowship format but much better leaders or a better org structure. The entire package to me stinks like sugar coated manure. VPW idolatry I mean damn literally in addition to idolizing his works. Fundamentalist isolationist group that functionally is a living embodiment of the eye saying to the hand I have no need of you. They have to teach a doctrinal error distinction of “household/body” with vpw flawed logic to even get it to be semi coherent. There's so many ways to develop support groups and connection and friend groups in local areas that cultic connections are not necessary.

That’s why it is idolatry - it is based on an image and a feeling. Whenever the image gets broken down to component parts which exposes the illogic the response is to flee. This may even be subconscious.

I would truly hope that our Lord and Savior whose yoke is easy and burden is light will be able to sort out confusion like this. Otherwise what is the point? Jesus describes leading a little one astray as a situation where it would be better to carry a millstone around your neck. From my view we are gonna see a millstone cowboy parade with TWI leaders at Jesus Christs return.

Well I would agree they fall on their own due to megalomania issues and NPD issues influencing them to the point of the need to magnify the 1942 promise as the scholarship is so shoddy. No they are shoddy workmanship all on their own. They are only propped up by the snowstorm story as the supernatural is brought in to bypass the clear fruit evidence.

It is difficult to reason with someone who has their head and heart mixed up like this. All humans make decisions on a combination of reason and feelings. To make the best decisions there needs to be a good blend of both involved. This person seems to be making heart decisions and ignoring head input. They are censoring facts not even willing to look at them all for the nostalgic feeling in their soul. In my life I had to look at feelings and emotions but logic as well. And over time the logic persisted to the point where the emotions don’t sway me inappropriately. I would hope for this persons sake they eventually have the same conclusions. But that is something everyone has to go thru no exceptions sorting out head, heart, and prayer.

Mike you aren’t gonna get sympathy from me over your head injuries from running into the same tone deaf wall over and over again. Plurality giving to a “ministry” whose founder wasn’t qualified to be a deacon is taking that tone deaf and turning it up to ELEVEN. I would donate to ANY charity over the Way and do consistently. I feel better about the $20 I have a homeless woman last week than I would giving a red cent to those who hide their books to abuse others, stubbornly refuse to change in the face of overwhelming evidence and opinion and abuse others with their positions to make their own lives easier.

I Timothy 3:2 a bishop must be blameless, the husband of ONE WIFE VPW is disqualified from Gods qualifications for any leadership in Christs body due to this NEVER being true about his life. I Tim 3:12 gives the same qualifications for a deacon. All of this is easily verified by many and more than one book as well as accounts on this website. The ONLY way PFAL would be special and endorsed by God would be if God had never inspired Timothy to be written. But Wierwille idolators are incapable of actually completing this logic cycle. Their minds are stunted from many years of feeding it bullshonta in the form of deifying the man’s works.

You may be right but I’ve dedicated well over the last decade of my life to ensure that my kids can escape this fact. And of course the quote thing f s up. My kids may exist because of your #4 but it sure as hell is not gonna define their existence.

Part of that article discusses the tax exempt status of the religious organizations. I have never seen TWI move fast except for two cases: 1. Fragile ego causes elevated responses. 2. Something threatens the tax exempt status. What caused the changes at HQ and with staff labor? Only one thing. A threatened tax exempt status even via the lawyers telling them to change caused them to jump like a frog on a hot tin roof. None of that happens in a volunteer scenario though. If you volunteer to get abused that’s your own legal deal not theirs. I do not think that any social reform like the one in Japan in the article would translate well to USA culture. I think only action attached to the tax exempt status would have any leverage at all. If there could be some code of moral conduct enforced attached to the tax exempt that could be effective. Or possibly an “underground cult railroad” that is funded by a grant?

Sure 2 Corinthians 6:3b part is quoted as support for many decisions and as motivation for pretty much any act of higher leaders. They explain away any illegal or immoral act with the excuse that they are protecting gawds ministry. Especially whitewash types of decisions. Or hiding other things that would not have good public optics.

Yes like all the broken women who were “healed” by the power of the Christ in you micro peen. And all the Corps who questioned him and were labeled possessed. And all the other many many groups who split off due to doctrine, evil acts, and the management of the group. And his wife who after all the bad treatment and adultery said he was a mean man. And his kids who are not even with the same ministry. This “promise” was a mental dream of VPW. It has many stories similar to the Mormon story and just as far fetched and ridiculous.

Yes this I believe is another homiletics tactic. The “shock jock”. Made popular by Howard Stern. Bring up wild and crazy claims about devilishness to distract from the lack of scholarship. EX: All denomination heads are seed of serpent. The pope is seed of serpent. See this crazy guy visiting speaking at lunch? Oh we already told the audience he is seed of serpent.

“So the ministry is not blamed” Famous quote as they are in the act of committing atrocities. Funny the same logic is used to cover up horrific crimes. So the criminal doesn’t face blame for his acts.

I do not like green eggs and ham. I do not like them Sam I am.