chockfull

WD, just because you say you stand for truth doesn't make it so. Prove it. Whether or not you accept info without corroborating evidence on an anonymous internet forum is beyond irrelevant. Most people post here to help heal from spiritual abuse. Not to bash TWI, although sometimes that happens as a corollary. Your examples of OJ and Vick are ridiculous. They had plenty of reason to lie - to avoid prison. People here are long gone and removed. They don't have great personal gain for telling their stories. If you have some vision of yourself like your a savior of TWI, standing for truth, or forcing people to heal, your vision is false. People extract themselves from being and thinking like victims at their own pace. Saying "get over it" is abuse like propounded by many of the TWI leadership that originally afflicted them. I'm new here but just coming up to speed on the reason behind your far-reaching popularity on this site.

Actually one of the main problems I observed was not that there were "rogue" doctrines floating around not supported by TWI, but that leaders were outstanding mimics. If someone was being controlling to them, they would pass it down the line and magnify it. If HQ was requiring 10 hours a week volunteer time reporting back on ridiculous BS, local leaders would multiply it. It reminded me of the Egyptians - when the slaves complained, they made them find their own straw to make bricks. If leaders spoke harshly from the top, that also would magnify. If teachings were supposed to be real scripted and bland, then that was what people mimic, and people caught up on sleep in fellowship. These leaders in such a controlling environment became experts at adapting to fit in and keep scrutiny off of themselves. Quite a political environment. And there was plausible deniability all through the leaders ranks. "I'm just treating you how I'm being treated". Then no blame could be laid anywhere. Quite a web of abuse, denial, and coverup. They should have had everybody serve on a volunteer basis so none of this CYA and protecting the little rice bowl behavior continued.

Labor on RFR's house, Corpse Chalet + offices, Moratorium, Gunnison + upgrades, Emporia, Indiana, Tinney, properties, 3 motorcoaches, 2 planes, 100s of automobiles, $25M in fixed assets, $25M in long-term investment assets. Free slave labor. What did we get in return? According to IRS, "intangible services", and the joy of knowing that the ministry owes us nothing but we owe the ministry everything.

What did Santa bring you? CF "Dedicated to putting the X back in Xmas"

I wrote something that was semi funny and changed my mind...

I wanted to comment on teachings w/r to this. First of all outside of the classes videotaped, and STS, there was virtually no quality control on any teachings. Leaders were and probably are free to teach whatever they want. If people complained enough and reported the teachings depending on the timeframe in the ministry they would either be blackballed by the leader, or if they could get enough public opinion going could get the leader removed or moved. For someone to say "I never heard that taught - prove it" is pretty stupid. Prove that it didn't get taught. With the known lack of quality control in the structure, and the known personal abuses, it is much more likely to your average reasonable man that a lot of crap did get taught. Now on the other side of the coin, is there a responsibility to check things taught against the Word and ensure they are rightly divided for each person? I certainly have heard some pretty wacked out things in teachings, have gone home and considered them, and come to the conclusion "that is pretty much BS", regardless of the title of the teacher. Don't believe everything everyone tells you. I even remember hearing something in a quote about "the fleeting shadow of a few great names". One of the biggest problems there is the accountability from HQ for misbehavior in teaching or action. This is why the lawsuits got settled, because paying $1M or whatever was the lesser of 2 evils to the BOD than facing the public depositions detailing knowledge of abuse. Yes, absolutely there is accountability for abuse with people placing leaders in charge. And how they have always handled it is by ad hominem attack on those bringing up charges, and sweeping it under the carpet. And there's these leaders that love their little positions and titles. That is nothing more than the love of money (figurative power and influence money can buy included) being the root of all evil. God thinks more of the new Christian asking for forgiveness for all their sins than these pinheads who pretend to talk for Him, control people, and present a holier than thou image. With the marriage teachings, I mean look at the source. You're not exactly going to get a lot of solidarity out of VPW or LCM in that category of life. Beating or denigrating women is abuse, adultery is sin, sex for manipulation will just cause problems. However, seducing your spouse at the right time can be a hell of a lot of fun for both. And gourmet cooking or a nice meal initiated by either spouse can be great foreplay. All right, the meter on my .02 is saying "expired".

Sniff... That was beautiful.... Wipes tear from eye.

I think a lot of the atrocity in the marriage stuff happened because of the philandering of VPW and LCM. Other leaders mimic'd a certain disdain for and abuse towards women. To be fair, different places I lived were better in that respect, with WC leaders treating wives well and not promulgating an environment of abuse. Actually some of the more major Way problems IMO were due to people mimicing the sermons they saw rather than the actual supported teaching. Anyway, there's my .02.

Yeah - it was the informal sex part of it that was the most problematic.

sweet. that so needs to become my avatar.

In general, no. However, I have found easy answers in some categories. It just depends on the question. For example, if my wife asks me "Honey, will you do ______ for me?" The easy answer is YES. In that scenario, NO is never an easy answer...

A lot of this stuff you mention is really sad. I was a lot more naieve when younger, and believed that people in authority had my best interests in mind. There was an awakening. Now I'm a little more cynical and look at authority for "what's in it for them". God is not mocked though - people reap what they sow.

It's all good. I would have to answer chock full of nuts. Whether that is referring to my brand preference for coffee, or a mental state is open for interpretation and probably varies from day to day and depends on who you talk to... ;)

I'm new here - replying to this thread. As I understand it, this is about dealing with offences? WTH the original poster had a lot to say about being hurt. I think certainly hurt we've experienced in the past can consume us, as well as the desire for justice. Although I'd like to see it myself, I have come to the conclusion that vengeance is the Lord's. Where I don't agree with the original poster is that someone can dictate to another "get over it". Lecturing a cut on your arm doesn't make it heal faster. Sleep, prayer, love, and a band aid are a better solution. Maybe this site offers some of that. Most of the rest of the thread is about a couple people offending each other and how they deal with that?