chockfull

Even more interesting is the current lawsuit TWI has against insurance companies who don't seem to want to provide coverage for their BOD for some reason....

Just letters standing for the Foundational Class on the Way of Abundance and Power (FNC), or Foundational Class. It is videotaped so no longer taught live, by 3 teachers, and is basically the same as the Martin@le class, minus a couple things.

Wolves have cubs, hence a shepherd's work is never done...

Interesting... So one possibility is that the 2 living in the basement (sharing 1 bed) potentially could have had something on Rosie & Donna such as knowing the true nature of their relationship, and so were protected. Craig's hatred of homos AND the kind of out there interpretation in his FNC of the original sin being lesbianism could point to him knowing about such a relationship, yet with those 2 having all the dirt on his escapades being powerless to do anything about it besides rant like a lunatic. The basement duo survived all the purges at HQ, and Janet even provided a lot of 'genuine spiritual suspicion' evidence (takes one to know one). Rosie gave them a lavish banquet when they left that nobody there could understand. There is evidence (can see on Wikipedia and published in a newspaper) that Rosie knew of Craig's escapades by 1995. It's quite a stretch to think that she wouldn't have told her good 'friend' Donna, and they potentially may have known years before this. Then they conspired to oust Craig. The reason given Donna didn't have to leave with Craig was 'she didn't know about it'. Yeah right. They've ousted more people than that for 'lack of CP1'. I hear in the new FNC they took out the lesbianism in Gen 3, and removed Craig's closing the class with Romans 1. Everything else is pretty much intact.

In my opinion spin is a political term, and is a way to influence and control public perception. The argument is that one doesn't have to spin something inherently good, it stands on its own merits. We seek "the real thing", not something that has to be spun. However, that is all too rare where people are involved. Now that album by the Spin Doctors, in my opinion, definitely stands on its own merit. Snappy beats, good crunch warm guitars, intriguing lyrics. Overall good sound.

Joel 2:25-27 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpillar, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the Lord your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Catcup, I like your posts, and I share your sentiments. For my life, what I struggle with is that I think those many years ago I was praying to God and following God. I don't know what happened, but somehow really want to believe that all things work together for good for us that love God and are called according to His purpose. It's just that years ago His purpose and TWI's purpose diametrically divurged for me, and I've since learned all this stuff about how the corrupt roots extend way back to the highest and earliest, how a lot was plagiarized, the sex scandals, the homo stuff that's probably still going on. I just have to believe that somehow God has protected my heart and that all that scripture I worked at learning is worth something. Why should their pathology be mine? But maybe I'm just chockfull of nuts and in need of therapy.

Yanagisawa, I've got a test myself. It's a really cool one, involving a bucket of water, a car battery, jumper cables, and someone's testicles. We'd all like you to participate. And to stay on track on this thread, it's unfortunate this wronged man wasn't able to perform this kind of test on the veepster when he was still alive.

WhiteDove, my speculation is that you work for the public relations department at TWI. What exactly is so wrong or evil about a one-sided story? We never get to hear both sides, and not the other side, as TWI and leaders there are too busy with the silent treatment and damage control tactics. Hell how many people have they paid off in lawsuits to keep from having both sides of the story exposed for all to see and make their own judgements? What we have here at GS is a little bit of an exposure site. So people who want nothing more than forget their experiences with TWI and move on come on here, find similar stories of evil functioning, get incensed, post their experiences, feel better about themselves, and move on. But as for you, to quote Shakespeare, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" Hamlet Act 3 Scene 2

And again, since we are going over this one more time, the point here on this forum is that the burden for proof here on an anonymous public internet forum is NOT the same as it is in a court of law, or in a journalistic publication such as a newspaper. It's lower. What that means is that you have plenty of hurt people who have a venue to vent their feelings at what happened to them, receive some support, and help heal. And you have a number of pinheads on here who like to attack those people's stories, discount them, try and uphold standards for accusations that don't apply, and in general behave like buttheads in many ways exactly like the insensitive morally depraved control freak morons who hurt them in the first place. And that of course is why people post their stories here and then leave. But maybe that's the intent of the buttheads. Damage control for TWI, trying to discount stories by these tactics, and drive away people so more aren't affected.

uh, yeah. because dead people are prosecuted all the time in our society. right? Actually many of the details and evidence are coming to light. The actual court case was sealed so we don't have access to any of the depositions, but many of the potential witnesses in the case that were never officially deposed are certainly free to disclose facts. Now yes it would be great to have a record of the deposition by lcm where he admitted to his hundreds of torrid affairs, but it's not really necessary - we see the results. His wife divorced him, his kids won't speak to him, his organization disowned him, he publically apologized. Other stories put together a pattern of behavior that was pretty clear. One of the lawsuits was a quid pro quo sexual harassment case, which was also settled quickly. These are ALL civil cases, not criminal. That makes them legal - they legally admitted guilt and paid off victims, with enough money to ensure they wouldn't speak of it further. part of the pattern of abuse is to call real things that happened to people imagination or speculation. that's what twi leaders have done, except where they've had to accept and sign the lawsuit settlement papers. even then how it was publically handled is by presenting a victory that they were settled. your book must be about a second grade reading level. i beg to differ. speaking up always has value, and many times catalyzes changes not immediately seen. the founding fathers of our country were a tiny little group of people with a given agenda. certainly the king of england wanted to dismiss them. they became a burr under his saddle and took his power, in the process establishing a great country. the accusations most certainly have merit. they have proven so legally. they have merit in thwarting further abuse. stories like these are used all the time in the business world to educate buyers. they are called "customer reviews". they affect the ability to sell the product.

The Illuminati. Or the Templars. But I'm not sure if that comes from TWI, or simply the cool dreams I've had since watching the latest "National Treasure" movie.

How sweet. pond is projecting the past abuses pond committed onto the woman caught in adultery, and is subconsciously repenting and asking all of us for forgiveness. How kind, loving, and honorable, pond. And of course, we all forgive you. Now, go and sin no more.

Ho, ho, ho and a Merry Christmas to all. Mistletoe, eggnog with rum, lots of presents, cookies and milk for Santa. Family, fun, and the joy of childhood. And if it's all of pagan origin then God bless the pagans who helped establish a tradition that gives me days off of work and a fun time with my family. -CF "Dedicated to putting the X back in Xmas."

Outstanding!!! What a bunch of scumbags. How about a man or woman who minister be married and enjoy their marriage without needing outside relationships? Kind of like the Bible teaches? Control was a major underlying theme through a lot of the behavior and teachings. Amen, sister. A fitting end that John S after being abused helped found another group that he still leads. And I hope with all the garbage you had to put up with that God seeing your real beauty gave you someone to take care of you and not use you.

Ah... apologies. Offending people never think they did anything wrong, and so don't think they need apologize. They rationalize and sublimate their behavior. Then they go on to offend more people. Pretty soon the trail of damaged lives starts to become evident behind them. And thus by their fruits they are known. And what they have sown they begin to reap, as God is not mocked. Speaking personally, truth as in the right dividing of the Word applied in love never offends me, even if it catalyzes a change. However, wrongly divided Word applied in error outside of love, and enforced by the abuse of spiritual authority, that certainly is offensive, and not in the "modified" dictionary definition you seem to have grown fond of. More in a legalistic, controlling, and life damaging sense. That's a neat pet theory. Is it a Biblical one? It is in the false vision of truth that many atrocities have been committed. Hitler's "master race". The Inquisition. Muslim suicide attacks. All done in the name of truth, yet led by the spirit of error. When a man's assessment of self places himself above another man, the old man nature and the ego involved open the door for error and slumber. And this is the groundwork for great devastation to be moved by the adversary. And again we get into this new "offended" definition. I John says if we walk in the light then we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. If we don't it's not described as being "offended". It says if we say we have fellowship, and walk in darkness then we lie and do not the truth. There is a central deception and a central delusion there in I John. And all the talk about truth doesn't make it the truth. Al Gore has a movie entitled "An Inconvenient Truth". His logic is offensive. His clamoring to be in the public eye is offensive. It's certainly inconvenient, but it's not truth. If you really want to understand some things around here, stop blinding yourself to the "offender" and turning all your attention on to the "offended". And what happens when we say we walk in the light but walk in darkness? Then we lie, we deceive ourselves, and we make Him a liar. And real revelation doesn't happen, only contrived plans of men. Broken cisterns that can hold no water. And the real reason most of the leadership in twi never apologized is that they wronged people all the time, and pretended they didn't know it. They lied about what they told people and did, played politics and ruined people's lives, and then never apologized trying to delude themselves into believing they didn't wrong anybody, but just presented the truth to them. And yet a little voice in their conscience knows differently, unless it has become seared with a hot iron due to their behavior. Ultimately, God is not fooled. Restoring fellowship with the offended? With who? God? That happens when the offended realizes God's care for them is loving, unlike the abuser's supposed care. Fellowship with the abuser? There is none, because that would have to be predicated by an apology and realization of the depth of the injury. And it's easier to ignore it. Even then there's no guarantee. The value of the relationship of those people to the people they have abused is obviously very low. So they didn't value a good name and relationship with the common. I'm not sure WTH you are talking about w/r to what you value is your god. Is this some kind of a lecture on idolatry? Money? For that to be an idol you actually have to have some. Oh, this is top notch entertainment. Privacy. We sound like a brainwash victim here. The problem with relationships w/r to TWI is that the leadership was blind to the boundaries that exist in normal healthy relationships. They would so constantly overstep freedom of will with controlling advice that relationships there are more of a controller and a co-dependant as opposed to free adults healthily interacting. This is so easy to see in the sentence equating people "getting into our lives" with being involved with and sharing lives. In a healthy relationship people share what they choose. Instead of hundreds of inquisition type inquiries and "checking things by someone". That's a puppet and a puppeteer, and is a dysfunctional relationship. One of the ways you start to see the dysfunction there is when the puppeteer shares little, and the puppet is required to share much. VPW taught on the lockbox. But these clowns freely pass innermost secrets of people's lives up and down chains of authority, all inserting their opinions. They put the "fun" in dys-fun-ctional. The god of our own privacy. Yeah. It's called the Constitution of the United States of America and the Bill of Rights which is the foundation behind law. In God We Trust. That's why it takes lawsuits and the threat of lawsuit to effect change where common sense and common Christian courtesy are so missing. Simple HR laws that prevent defamation of character toward former employees. A level playing field for all is the goal of law. And it's a beautiful thing, otherwise the control of the few elite might have been unchecked, and life would gravitate back towards the Inquisition days.

I want to contribute some negatives... 1. It's not quite a perfect day today. Beautiful blue sky, only 1 cloud. 2. My family isn't perfect either. 3. I dislike my job 1 day out of 30. 4. I only get 4 weeks of vacation. How am I doing so far?

You know H, that's an interesting thing to consider you brought up, about whether or not we can really separate ourselves from our past as its still part of us. That made me actually go look up Phil. 3:13 again and look at some of those words. The religious would lecture about "forgetting the past", etc., etc., etc. and speak ex cathedra from a throne and try to shut down talking about it. But I tell you I can sure remember the offences that happened to me in detail and with great clarity, many years later. So what does that section mean to me? One of the definitions of that word "forget" is "to neglect, no longer caring for". I guess I'd have to say that a lot like the things you are sharing, what I am building now is more important to me than all that. Education, business, hobbies, relationships in my community. And yes, studying the Bible. But I do it now more for me - what interests me, rather than out of obligation or religious duress. I guess over time I spend more time on the things I love and less time on all the sicko stuff I went through. But I tell you, the indignation at the injustice still gets me worked up. And maybe that's a good thing, to keep evil from functioning. Congrats to you on what you've built, rascal you too. And who cares if we could have done it years ago? God will bless us and prosper what we're doing now because He's God. DWBH, Thanks for all you've done and posted. You're cool in my book. CF

Apparantly you haven't read Rom. 8:30 - you know, the one right before calling us "more than conquerors"? And also have missed Hebrews 13:20 Hebrews "Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant" You probably also missed the whole context of VPW's Foundational Class, which the theme verse is John 10:10, and the context talks about Jesus, the good shepherd, and his sheep. I guess Jesus must have been using the bible to wound and hurt people when he drew the same analogy of himself as a shepherd and believers as sheep. And I'm sure you must have overlooked I Peter 2:25 - "For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls" But hey, look on the bright side. Your powers of wrongly dividing administrations and ignoring truth outside of the Grace Administration to justify spiritual abuse, and shift the blame away from leaders who hurt people on to the people and those who speak up against it probably displays some of the leadership qualities that abusive organizations actively seek. Best of wishes with all that. Oh, and fyi I have a very merry heart. It's overjoyed and all healed up from the past abuses I've suffered because I've been able to get to the truth of the Word rather than living in denial. I can call it what it is, allow vengeance to be the Lord's, and move on in life with a light heart. No delusions to weigh me down.

WTH, I have a suggestion for you to further your Biblical studies on the topic of offences. Read Ezekiel 34. Many times people can quote scripture, sound so holy, and yet never be further from the truth. The major point of logic you are missing in your Biblical studies is that offences that happen between believers are vastly different than offences that happen under the guise of spiritual authority. God doesn’t say in Ezekiel 34 “Woe unto the sheep who have not been cared for and are hungry, scattered, and injured. They are living under offence. They need to get over their offence so as not to be controlled by the enemy”. “Woe unto the sheep that bleat because they are hurt. They are not doing God a favor by bleating, and don’t understand that I never lead sheep by their bleating”. “Woe unto the other sheep that bleat in sympathy with the injured sheep”. “Woe unto Ezekiel who is speaking these words, as he is promoting strife and division. He is not spiritually qualified to restore anyone. He should remain quiet and not repeat the sins of the shepherd to anyone, but sweep them under the carpet.” It is not the sheep’s fault. It is not the voice of the account of the sheep’s mistreatment’s fault. It is the shepherds’ fault. The shepherds fed themselves, and not the sheep. God apparently has somewhat of a problem with that if you read Ezekiel 34. v. 18 and 19 are intriguing: “Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet? 19 And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet.” Apparantly God doesn’t want people to belittle, hide, or deny the abuse. Also, the solution doesn’t seem to be to instruct the sheep to bleat in silence so nobody else hears. The hope seems to be when the fat-headed shepherds are tossed out and God brings in a new shepherd like David who will turn things around. Perhaps that is figurative and only available at the return with the Chief Shepherd. Perhaps it’s available today too. Either way, the Ezek 34 solution is in v. 22 – 31: “Ezekiel 34:22-31 22 Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle. 23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. 24 And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it. 25 And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods. 26 And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing. 27 And the tree of the field shall yield her fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase, and they shall be safe in their land, and shall know that I am the LORD, when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them. 28 And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid. 29 And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more. 30 Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord GOD. 31 And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord GOD.” Now that someone has taught you the truth of the Word, are you still going to lecture people?

WD, just because you say you stand for truth doesn't make it so. Prove it. Whether or not you accept info without corroborating evidence on an anonymous internet forum is beyond irrelevant. Most people post here to help heal from spiritual abuse. Not to bash TWI, although sometimes that happens as a corollary. Your examples of OJ and Vick are ridiculous. They had plenty of reason to lie - to avoid prison. People here are long gone and removed. They don't have great personal gain for telling their stories. If you have some vision of yourself like your a savior of TWI, standing for truth, or forcing people to heal, your vision is false. People extract themselves from being and thinking like victims at their own pace. Saying "get over it" is abuse like propounded by many of the TWI leadership that originally afflicted them. I'm new here but just coming up to speed on the reason behind your far-reaching popularity on this site.

Actually one of the main problems I observed was not that there were "rogue" doctrines floating around not supported by TWI, but that leaders were outstanding mimics. If someone was being controlling to them, they would pass it down the line and magnify it. If HQ was requiring 10 hours a week volunteer time reporting back on ridiculous BS, local leaders would multiply it. It reminded me of the Egyptians - when the slaves complained, they made them find their own straw to make bricks. If leaders spoke harshly from the top, that also would magnify. If teachings were supposed to be real scripted and bland, then that was what people mimic, and people caught up on sleep in fellowship. These leaders in such a controlling environment became experts at adapting to fit in and keep scrutiny off of themselves. Quite a political environment. And there was plausible deniability all through the leaders ranks. "I'm just treating you how I'm being treated". Then no blame could be laid anywhere. Quite a web of abuse, denial, and coverup. They should have had everybody serve on a volunteer basis so none of this CYA and protecting the little rice bowl behavior continued.

Labor on RFR's house, Corpse Chalet + offices, Moratorium, Gunnison + upgrades, Emporia, Indiana, Tinney, properties, 3 motorcoaches, 2 planes, 100s of automobiles, $25M in fixed assets, $25M in long-term investment assets. Free slave labor. What did we get in return? According to IRS, "intangible services", and the joy of knowing that the ministry owes us nothing but we owe the ministry everything.

What did Santa bring you? CF "Dedicated to putting the X back in Xmas"

I wrote something that was semi funny and changed my mind...