wing

DogLover, I wanted to post it too. . . Vp said it for himself (in one of those closed door after meetings where special bits of "insight" came up) about the future of his ministry; about Luke, '. . . well kids, you know, . . . I went to the cookie jar. . . and. . . daddy showed me. . . Luke Somerville . . . will become president of the ministry. . .' It was at HQ, a corps week environment. LCM had been chosen, but not yet crowned. Lots of people were there. That's where I heard it. But it didn't hit the grapevine that I know of. I've never seen a video, or heard an audio of it. At the time it just struck me as odd, him making such a definative comment, acting like an old testament prophet. Then Luke was just a kid, what a thing for him to have to grow up with.

What a beautiful experience for you to have had. I'd bet that that memory is gonna live in you a long, long time. I'm guessing that the rest of the story would be fascinating too . . . the viewpoint from some of those kids? :) Man, oh man! What a treat!

Happyheart. I'm sorry, I think the words that I used were much stronger than yours. my bad. Your phrase was ". . . I don't appreciate the damagae he (LCM) caused by . . ." and in the ending paragraph " . . . some believers are angry at top leadership. . ." I am glad that you have strong feelings against something so hurtful taking place. It should, IMO, make us angry that someone can hold a bible on the one hand, and be so abusive on the other.

Glad to hear you have some anger over this, happyheart; or least some agony. Not that anger or agony are good things by themselves. But seeing (or hearing about) so many people being indiscriminatly abused by someone using a bible to do it, that should p*ss us all off. Ham may be right about the unresolved NEVER becoming resolved. Even if we put it all away, that doesn't settle it. Some folks out there want to see it live on and on. Some offer that there were many good things we should keep. How do we put that away? It took such a little while for us to become indoctrinated. And getting indoctrinated didn't really take so much effort on our parts, being force fed like we were, so to speak. But how to undo that? Individually; on our own? that'll take a lot more effort than it took any of us to go through TWI. And who to hold responsible? HQ? & all those inbetween on and on to the twig leaders? Take your pick. No matter where you find those bad guys; those 'at the top' set the pace, the standard, and the example for all of the others. I personally know some that lost their jobs (and acess to the ministry, which could be said "was their life") after confronting the likes of LCM. Nothing easy here.

And GRACE would always cover that bad guy behaviour, cuz ya was already righeous ya know. Heard that way too many times. Not many would ever admit being wrong, er... outta fellowship (was that standing, or was that state?). I am happy to say I have forgotten.

Face meltings? I have had zero encounters with them since twi time. The home that I was raised in did not have them. But I do have too, too many memories of them from the way daze. Here are two. . . In my very first "face to face" encounter with vpw ( I was a mere teenager), I happened to walk into the room, he looked straight at me, he was busy on the telephone, melting someone over something. Del D**c*n was also in the room, Del came over to me apologizing about vic's rant. VP was visibly embarassed that I had walked in (or that I was able to just walk in?). Del gave me the change for a dollar that I needed to get a soda. . . I left. Many, many years later; another spontaneous encounter. This time LCM. For me it was a workday morning, my tasks including going to the coprs chalet. A group of European visitors working with me that day. We started our chore on the outside, front, upper deck. LCM come out in a full rage about what we were doing, targeting especially how those guests were going about it. I can tell you that those visitors were in shock, almost frozen. I was in shock too, and very ashamed of him. I told him that we didn't really need his help. That even though he requested the chore to be done, we should try again some other time. I took those people away form there quick as I could. We went to the snack shop instead :)

Remember the other drunk? The one he used an example of being so strong, so confident? As he told it vp walked around the front of his desk, animating assertiveness and swagger? The "I can take on anybody" drunk. (... it's been a while, so I don't recall any exact phrases...). Like excie pointed out, it's sad that he interjected these, and somehow they worked. I also was so young (an naive), oh yeah! I finally found the truth of the word? But wait, the teacher is using the behaviour and antics of a drunk to demonstrate an effective good example? Maybe I need a refresher course. OK class, let's review the qualities of drunkeness. . . and compare them to qualities of walking de' verd.

You're right, and you rock. "An' she's my sweet little thang, she's my pride and joy" your turn. . . wing

new tune: "Well, you've heard about loving giving sight to the blind…" And the next line is: "My baby's loving 'cause the sun to shine" wing

Well thank you waysider, but I don't expect to stump you. . . new tune: "Well, you've heard about loving giving sight to the blind…" wing

What She said! (Sunesis). Very well put : ) about Judas. I do not believe he was born again either. I asked the very same question at my local churches study group two weeks ago. The concept of perdition & destruction outweighed and trumped all of those pronouns (apostles he had chosen, to whoms, thems, and theys) leading up to men of Galilee, that we heard in PALF. That was also a beautiful side point about Jesus demonstrating love to Judas. wing

About those previous clues, and the song title Polythene Pam. . . "well you should see her practice...." "in her... package, you should see..." I, for one could never have guessed that. Dooj, were you thinking really of a different tune? here is lyric Polythene Pam: (verse 1) well, you should see polythene pam she's so good looking but she looks like a man well, you should see her in drag, dressed in her polythene bag yes, you should see ploythene pam wing : ) but I don't have any guesses about See-saw swingin...

Thankyou Waysider. One of my favorites from Jimi. (SRV too) wing

Is this about forgiving? I'd like to ask a question: What are you (oldiesman, wth. . .) saying? Are you trying to vindicate vp? Do you want it to be basically ok, and we should sing koom-by-ah? I'll admit to some good memories of twi-life. I have friends who remind me that " some of it was good". That does not make forgiving easier (but ephesians 4:32 does help). Still, none of those memories bring me today before the Almighty God. Instead they lead away from the heart of God. That is my problem with trying to vindicate it. I don't think that twi needs to be revived. That's a scary thought. Been there, done that, threw out my T shirt. Scary 2 is the remembering of vp so often requesting that valter find him a text that would support what he already "knew" the word was really saying. (And we thought that was a good thing?) More recently, while looking at twi words in Bible dictionaries, I am shocked to find many words he simply changed the meanings to in order to support his views. And now we have these dicusssions about some of those words, but he did such a thorough job of convincing us. IMO we are left with tremendous problems to deal with, things that should agonize us. And there is much to unlearn. After all, we were drilled to hold fast the word. Those repetitions, and the imposed drive of guilt to not lose that word. But what if that foundation is really sand (or swamp)? If we believe in God at all, we should fear Him. (yeah, I remember what vp taught about that word, but look at your dictionary anyway; it is a good word, especially as it applies towards God.) God is Holy. He is Awesome. the twi-speak of grace (over behaviour) and forgiveness may not make Him smile the way that vp told us all that it would. May God forgive us all. . . wing

Forgiveness may be a beautiful topic, but it is no cloak of invisibility. God may forgive many things. King David comes to mind; but David still bore consequences for wrongs he did (Bathsheba? . . . the child died. Or the census? . . . tens of thousands of Israel died.) He may have been forgiven, but part of the consequence he bore is also that these things be recorded in scripture for all to see. Forgiveness does not automatically mean secrecy, no matter how much forgetting you want to put with it. TWI also taught little about justice. So Rock On (Rascal, Dooj, Bramble, Paw and others. . .). Jonny. . . forgive me? wing.

New tune? Mamma, take this badge off of me. I can't use it anymore. wing (ps, thank you wordwolf for the advise)

Well, if anyone may chime in, I'll give it a try. Is it Running On Empty by Jackson Browne? Wing :)

Jeff Beck covering "A Day In the Life", I've been looking for that for a long, long time. Thanks for putting it up here. wing.

About people coming, or going; staying or moving on. . . At church this morning someone came back that I had missed seeing for a long time (like excathedra was speaking about missing some posters). They had been gone at least a year, but our reunion was as warm and friendly as ever. Like we hadn't missed a day. When I was able to ask about the changes, it seems that their life just needed a different path, even though they had those feelings of "missing" too. Here at GS, I a newbie, but I've read enough threads to grow an appreciation for what happens here. Talking things out is good medicine. I find more "love" here than "hate". For what it's worth, I've also participated at the new WC sites. I found some reminiscing, some reuniting, which was good. But I also found some hardselling to join back up too. I didn't enjoy that part of it. Wing