wing

Poco: "Crazy Love"

I have participated in three different denominational churches since I left TWI. Each of them were different from the others. And ALL of them extremely different from TWI. There remains a lot of baggage to unpack from those way daze. For all of us, I think. And it's hard to not have it come along in any church environment. And it's too easy to still be looking through those way eyes, and critique about whatever . . . For what it's worth, one experience that was difficult for me (in the first of the churches that I mentioned) came when the topic of membership was offered. I told the pastor "thanks, but no thanks". He said that was fine, twas all up to me; come as long as I liked. So I asked him why he didn't ask me 'why?' about not wanting to join. To my (way brain) surprise, he said "no" - that it was my business, not his. That he'd listen, if I neeeded that; but as far as he was concerned he would be sticking his nose where it didn't belong, so he does not ask. This was a good situation. But it was still difficult for me too, almost catching me off guard. Why? Because in TWI a leader would expect that info (and there'd better be a good reason too!). All that in your face, and into your sheet, mentallity of TWI was absent in this church. For a moment, I wondered if they really cared. Eventually it occured to me that this was a good way for them to demonstrate that they did care: to trust that people can have fair judgement on their own. It is a strange paradox. Does anyone really miss that overbearing micro management of their lives that occured in TWI? Yet at the same time, if we even make it into a different church environment; have we felt ignored because that is not the way that some other churches operate? "Hi, good to see you" might be all that we get. Unless we put some effort in. The hardsell (even though it started soft-n-easy) of TWI is something that a cult encourages. I haven't found a church - church yet that works that way, even though that is exactly what I first expected to find. oh well, :) peace back at ya

I can appreciate what you are saying. In the waydaze we learned (?) a lingo and point of view that don't fit in well with any other "christian" community. So critiques of how they fit that mold, or how I am now may fit in with them, are impossible to avoid. Then there are the words. . . VP changed the meanings of so many conventional terms, that I have to wrestle with understanding with how other people (who were not in the cult) use them. Like the word "gifts". . . Guess it's gonna take a long, long time. Sounds like that pastor could be a good thing. Willing to start by accepting it for what it is. Not so common.

You're right, and ya knows your rebels... your turn WW

Thanks bfh, new tune: Last night a little dancer came dancing to my door Last night a little angel came pumping on my floor

That's a Billy Joel tune. Not so sure of the name though. . . "You May Be Right?" has something about being crazy, and being a lunatic in there. but maybe I should just be quiet here, since I'm not so sure of a title? wing

Sorry, can't say that I remember that. Maybe that came later? The TWI that I worked for wanted 100%. And when it came to something "you don't agree with" we were drilled to focus instead on what we did agree with. wing

Oh yeah waysider ...and the heavens open every time she smiles :) your turn.

Thanks bfh, "I can hear her hearbeat for a thousand miles" wing

Wing, Out of curiosity I just found the song on YouTube. It's pretty cool: Hey Bulldog <==click here To find the lyrics to any song I just always Google "Lyrics to *name of song*" Thank you Doojable! Appreciate your help :) wing

New Tune: All around, people looking half dead Walking on the sidewalk, hotter than a match head That sounds like Summer In the City, Lovin Spoonful / John Sebastian

"Hey, Bulldog", by 4 guys from Liverpool with funny haircuts. The movie "Yellow Submarine" originally had a scene with this song, which more recent released of it include. Thanks, waysider. I was wondering if I was going to have to post most of the song. To WordWolf: I was sure thinking that those lyrics had something to do with Lennon, but couldn't place it myself. I'd be interested in seeing all the words, even by pm - if no one else is interested... wing

'socks' wrote 'Mar 24 2008 to RandyHoney. . . "What have you done to make the Word of live in your life?" "Quite a bit. In fact I'm going to start selling t-shirts on this site that will have "Socks IS the GREATEST" in time for Christmas this year. They were going to say "I'm the Greatest" but I was afraid people would get mixed up. " Socks, LOL, Laugh Out Loud! Laughter is good medicine, but this caught me so off guard I couldn't catch my breath. I'll admit to being off topic; but when my daughter was little-bitty we used to make up songs for doing some mundane chores. The one that we sang while getting her dressed for the day went "Uh-oh, what you gonna do about . . . " then adding the next item of clothing she'd need. But first on the list was ALWAYS "Uh-oh, what you gonna do about socks?" (because she already had her diaper on). So, for me, Socks ALWAYS comes FIRST!" wing ps: I guess that I don't know how tho work the "quotes" thing yet.

I was born and raised in Northern California. In the early 70's the TWI experience (as much as my youth) took me to lots of other places. Wow in Michigan, branch in Florida, way corps in Kansas & Indiana, staff at New Knoxville. When I left there it was because I wanted to (as did the wife I had at the time). Leaving HQ was not impossible, but support was a little thin, because the people I worked with wanted "lifers" as they called them. But we moved back to sunny California, yep - I went back home. But didn't stay so long, because the wife wanted to go "home" too, and that for her was Maryland (the thought of earthquakes freaked her a little too). So we moved again, not because of TWI at all. TWI was against it. Eventually the wife moved on to other things, but I stayed here. My children, my work, and being tired of moving; keep me here. This location is pretty good, lots of good friends, a decent work potential, some good music spots. But I miss the California home alot! Where driving for less than an hour can take you to the beach, the redwood forests, the mountains, the city, or the country. I still get to visit. Socks, it sounds like you and yours live in that area. Enjoy it for me, ok? TWI made moving part of life, but I probably would have done my own wandering anyway, even if it hadn't been for them.

Thanks, PurpleDays. I was kinda hoping you'd get it, though, seeing as how your new name sort of led me back to this artist's work. . . You jump in front of my car when you, you know all the time that ninety miles an hour girl, is the speed I drive, you tell me it's alright, you don't mind a little pain. . . wing

Rock on, Bowtwi !! Very cool indeed, in the best sense of the word. There are no easy words to say my empathy for your experience. You have a very ((((tender heart)))) give it to God, and not to them. wing

Thank you for your imput Twinky. At our church study group, when I ask about those "pop-up" topics, I usually don't give a reason either. Just that I am curious about something. The answers do vary. Depends sometimes on how I ask. Also depends on who happens to be at the group at the time. Because there are some people who think that they know so........ much! And there are others who just want to learn together. Like you described of your church, I would say that mine is also a good church. The pastor in his teachings focuses on Bible themes (as opposed to current event themes). I appreciate that his particular style can include presenting balanced summaries of how scholars may disagree on the topic. If he can resolve it, he will explain why he feels this way or that. But if he cannot resolve it, he is very comfortable saying "I don't know". After experiencing TWI, or an offshoot; "I don't know" can be very good words to hear. wing

Was my guess right then? Just in case it was. . . new tune: You jump in front of my car when you, you know all the time wing

can't say that I know the tune, but I'll make a guess; Had a bad day?

This reminds me of Shania (sp?) Twain for some reason . . .

T-Bone wrote. . . In an ever so subtle way, vp becomes an invisible interpreter for followers. When a PFAL grad reads the Bible [even if they don't have notes from the collaterals written in the margins] through repetitive absorption of vp's material they often experience something like a "pop-up note" in their head – recalling what vp said about the verse. When you say what vp says the Word says you will have power . The assumption that God taught vp "the Word" is at the core of a follower's convictions – and serves as a litmus test for a genuine "believer." You tell me what you think of vp and I'll tell you how far you're going to go spiritually . Another funny twist of a PFAL quote – but true…in a spiritually dark sense. Because the commitment level that vp demanded of followers acts like a vacuum to suck people in to his dazzling delusions of grandeur. Yup…vp was essential to a follower's belief system. Oh T-Bone, You bring back some painful memories! On the wow field we studied those (blue, green, tan) books more than any of us opened our Bibles. and when we taught, any chapter from them would do. We thought we was pleasin God :( Today, to remember that, I pray that God might forgive. . . Those pop-ups that you describe (a really good analogy BTW) are so ingrained. If we were not 'mind controlled' (as some deny), then we sure were programmed. Now when I'm in any kind of church, or study group, if those pop-ups raise their ugly heads; I ask the group about em. It is always refreshing to hear the responses, because they come from people that vp never touched. IMO, vp himself believed what he taught. At least he had convinced himself of it. To keep up the facade of such a con for so long, I think he'd have to. It probably helped that no disagreement was really tolerated around him.

Great humor! I dunno why I thought florida? maybe that FLO subliminally got me....

Wow waysider, those restrictions sound so unreal today; yet at the time they got accepted for "normal" . . . what was we thinkin? With disney so close by, you could've had a decent job source, if you'd had more flexibility at fellowlaborers. About the moonlighting while on staff, what skyider described was typical too. I worked at hq for a long, long time. When I decided it was time for me to move on (and the move I wanted to make did not agree with my given assignment) I felt that I needed some extra money to help to with moving across country. I spoke with Don Wier***le about covering my moving expenses. I thought I should take on an extra job for them. That was, of course against policy. He told me I couldn't do it. What we worked out is this: I asked him to assure me that, if I followed his request; that God would meet my need for doing so; he chuckled a little. saying he couldn't promise me that God would do that. I agreed! so that's why shouldn't he instead approve my request to moonlight? well, he did. My idea of moonlighting was to do some work on the homes of some other longterm staff people. At the end of the day this was good for all of us. . . some things got done on their homes that truly needed attention, things that they had no doubt put off in order to work at twi. They got helped, I got helped, twi wasn't hurt that I ever heard of. So for my last six months at hq, I put in all of my unused vacation time, and lots of weekends and evenings doing that. I guess that this paragraph in the chapter ended on a happier note. Hope this doen't dampen the folly of that twi policy.

I went into way corps 6 because (at the time) we had to join the corps in order to play in way productions. I never wanted to lead anything. But learning the word did appeal to me. The more that I read posts here, the more I find that the individual experiences were so different. I was really young (I wish that my school counsellor had been able to talk me into going to college instead). How did LCM ever get picked to lead? He was, imo, one of the most insecure -not comfortable in his own skin- people I've ever met. But he did have enough of a class clown / class bully mix to skirt that issue. The closest thing to "toughen you up" that I can relate to on this thread was the challenge to not lose the word. I suppose that some of the arguers at GSC feel that they are doing just that (holding on to the word). I say let it go. Because vp taught what he wanted to teach, whether he could find it in the bible or not. As far as he was concerned it was still the word. And there is a lot of the bible he told us not to bother with, ya know - not addressed to us? Oh what we have missed! VP tried to talk tender, but he was a hard man. Yeh, I knew him too. If he were alive today, I don't suppose that he'd be inviting me for any more pie at his kitchen table; now I've written this.

I want to salute all those who have endured abuses and attacks resulting from TWI, I want to ((((( hug))))) the innocence that still remains despite those very dark moments of life. I want to applaud that you do not choose to slip quietly, secretly, or in shame; out that side-door or back-door. Yesterday morning it occurred to me, considering some of the posts I've read at GSC. . . . There are some great Bible moments that just go hand in hand with refusing to go away quietly, or in secret. Like Acts 16:22 describing Paul and Silas being publicly stripped and beaten at the hands of those authorities. What an ugly, horrible, and humiliating experience that must have been for Paul and Silas. Then Acts 16:37 demonstrating Paul refusing to be released "quietly". Those authorities had to acknowledge what they had done. Don't go quietly Rascal, Ex, etc... Some antagonistic posters argue forever favoring the style of vp. I think that they are immitating him (which they may consider as a compliment). But it is not a compliment at all; the way they try to silence, or to discredit. Didn't vp like his version best too? Anyone who disagreed simply was not welcome. There are still so many scripture records about abuse... Like Joseph (how could his brothers really have treated him that way. . . ?) Or Bathsheba (how could the king really have done what she claimed. . . ?) Oh, this list will get pretty long. My point is that your voice about your experience should be heard.