Georgio Jessio

Well Jerry B , I agree that it's not for everybody. That was one of the major flaws of the TWI's SIT thing. They pretty much made it required of everyone. But it's not for everyone! As for the woman you mentioned with the limited tounge: she was probably faking it to fit in. But whoever it is that was calling on her was obviously not getting that message from God. When I ran a teen twig, I ran the believers meeting and God never once told me who to call on. But the pressure to not screw up was intense. I mean, did any twig leader ever say "We're not having manifistations tonight because God hasn't told me who to call on". The whole approach was bad. And this is how you know I was brainwashed: I KNEW I was faking it, yet when I was having a crisis I would SIT to myself. I'm not crazy, but how crazy! I remember being on a plane and having anxiety during take off. I started SITing, and the fear stayed. hahaha. Glow-ry!

lindy were you Junior Corps? The surprise ending to CF & X was that masturbation was the "apple", the origional sin. Where did he get THAT from? I took that class a few times to try to see where this leap came from and never really got it. I also took it to watch Vic go down the list of dirty words. I think I first heard 'poontang' at that class, so it wasn't a total waste. Glow-ry!

La shanta la shanta la shakada la fanta la canta la hanta para bilar la bomba. My children know that I am the lord thy God. Do not look to the left or the right but stay steadfastly on me. For I have a wall of fire protection around each and every one of you. I will souround you with a hedge of protection. Fear not the advisary for I am the lord thy God. Why does God speak to me in old elnglish? Also the tounge was of men or angels yet we all must have spoken the tounges of angels because no one I know ever spontaniously spoke Russian or any other language of man. And it was a message from or for God, right? Ever hear the message FOR God? I DID once hear a guy interpret in the 2nd person. He was praised for being so "on". All he did was say "he" instead of "I". Glow-ry!

haha thank you lindyhopper! I don't know of any language that "improves" if you go down the alphabet and add each letter to your "tongue". sorry Mr.. Burton. I'll tell you what else never made a lick of sense: "your tounge should be equal in length to your interpretation" huh? Not all languages use the same syllables or chronological time to say the same thing! For example if I say "hola" , "hi" and "aloha" they all mean the same thing. But they are 2,1 and 3 syllables respectively. So how would a paragraph be equally long in all "tongues"? I actually asked that once and was (guess what) REPROVED. How asinine. Glow-ry!

VPW is in charge of Rollaway and Scullery duty in pergatory's kitchen. Glow-ry!

Oh man. I don't know about you guys but I was making it up the whole time. I started a thread about this on waydale a long time ago. I started speaking in tounges when I was 5. When I did it out loud for the first time people cried. They were so moved. They also must have been seriously brainwashed because my "tounge" consisted of two syllables repeated over and over. How could these people actually believe that I was speaking in tounges? Not only that but my SIT with interpretation was identical every time. Clearly I was making it up. As I got older, the pressure to continue to SIT AND the pressure to fit in AND the pressure to seem holy had me making up a more elaborate "tounge". I later found out that many of my Junior Corps friends were also making it up. I also made up elaborate interpretations and words of prophecy that made leaders think I was really "in tune". What a crock. I'm not saying you all made it up, but I KNOW some people did. Assuming SIT is real, I also would assume that not everyone can do it. And session 12 newbies made it up all the time. It's THE graduation requirement. You pay for this long class and at the end everyone SIT's. You really think VPWs success rate was really 100%? Come on now. Anyone here care to admit that they made it up? Come on, set yourself free! Glow-ry!

"I thought it sucked, and I am not using a pun here. It really blew." haha great quote. But seriously does anyone remember VPW saying that breasts were beautiful but that there was nothing particularly attractive about the v#g#na? I was a teen when I took that class. I lived my life thinking that it was a FACT not an opinion. He also said something abot how women are not turned on be sexual images like playboy. That visual stimulus was strictly male. No wonder I didn't get lucky till i was 25. Old Vic put some funny ideas in my head. Heck, he taught me the "4 f's" , in person , when I was 16. He also said that our way sisters were for love and that all non believer female's were only good for sex. (teen summer school 84) Can i get a witness? Glow-ry!

Great thank you Goey. Roy: Alrighty then. Be careful who you tell that to. Like don't mention it at a job interview. Thanks all! Glow-ry!

I think I wasn't clear in what I info I was looking for because we are way off the point here. People are suggesting google searches and telling me that God created Adam. haha. I am not searching for ultimate truths and am quite aware of the internet! What I was looking for was J. Shoenheit's teachings. That's all I was really looking for. Not that I don't appreciate the replies. I was just looking for J.S.'s ideas. It's been a long while since he taught this stuff to me and I was 13. All I remember is he was an "expert" and had allegedly infallible arguments. he was supposed to be THE MAN when it came to this subject. But while we're off point: Roy are you saying that God gave you this information directly? Glow-ry!

Roy, I'm not totally new to this, haha. I understand that Lucifer's fall is accounted in Genesis 3 but does that mean that the chronology of the old testament is exact? Could Lucifer's fall not have taken place between verses 1 and 2 and then be accounted later? Think about it. If the earth was without form and void after it was created it stands to reason that SOMETHING happened. The fact that that certain something isn't described before verse 2 doesn't mean it can't be tlked about later on in the Bible. You're not gonna like this but the Bible has been translated, re written and hacked countless times.So the English version I own is probably not exactly and perfectly God breathed, if it ever even was. Don't you think that certain accounts, especially in the old testament, are (gasp) JUST stories meant to teach us life lessons. (for our learning, not to sound like VPW). I have a real hard time swallowing stories of people being eaten by giant fish, parting seas, creating life 6,000 years ago in 7 days and such. I have a hard time taking that stuff literally. uh oh, blasphemy! Glow-ry!

Thank you for all your replies and web suggestions I will check them all out. It's a sticky subject because I don't want to contradict the Bible. But at the same time I think that believing that this entire planet has only existed for 6,000years is to be in denial. That point made by Roy is exactly what I'm talking about; simple and basic science has , at the very least, proven that this earth is a heck of alot older than 6,000 years. To be fair , Roy mad a good point about evolution. On day five God created the cells that eventually became animals. That makes more sense than thinking that on day 6 God created all animals, instantly and as we know them today. Believing it all happened in one day denies the ice age and dinosaurs. I seem to remember TWI teaching that "something happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2." 1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2. And the earth was without form and void. Well how can the earth be without form AND void if it was created in verse 1? How can something that is created be without form and void. Does anyone remember this? VPW added a word (isn't that a technique used by the serpent?) to make verse 2 : 2. THEN the earth was without for and void. This implies that something happened between verse 1 and 2. VP clamed that this is when the war with Lucifer and his angels took place and God's creation was altered during this "war". The ice age and dinosaurs are what happened between verse 1 and 2. Anyone buy this theory? I think it makes some sense, but also seems like a stretch. Seems like a way to defend the 7 day/6,000 year theory. Seems like a pseudo-theory "created" to justify Genesis, not an honest theory based on the scientific method, hypothesis and conjecture. Becasue I am suspicious of all things Wierwille, his changes and theories start with me thinking they're probably wrong. I spent way to much of my life thinking everything he said was right. Now I'm just trying to make sense of it all. Glow-ry!

The recent talk about CES got me thinking about J. Sheonheit (sp?). He was regarded as an expert in the areas of the Old Testament and defending Creation vs. Evolution. I saw him teach C vs. E st Teen Summer School in '84. Thing is I don't remember much about it except that I found it very convincing and it "blew my mind" "blessed my life" and "hit me real big". Anyone remember his main points? Personally I believe in both theories. There is so much undeniable scientific evidence of evolution that I think it's silly to write it all off. Heck I know Christians who think that dinosaurs never existed. I say , the Big Bang happened and it was God who made it happen. I believe both theories are actually all one theory but, because science loves to reject God and religion loves to reject science, it has been presented as an either/or as opposed to one thing. We all came from cells that evolved because God made the cells that way So: Did it really happen is 7 days? does my theory fly? What did Shoenhite (how DO you spell that!) have to say? anyone? Glow-ry!

Well first of all I AM a Christian whether CES says so or not. And indeed I was told by one of their founding members, who I have known for over 20 years, that marriage is for Christians only. If they are using this as a reason to not do my wedding , they are telling me they doubt my Christianity. That seriously ticked me off. How arrogant can you be? I know I'm not a member and haven't taken their classes. But until that moment I respected that man as a man of God, even through his seriously weak times and poor human and spiritual performances towards his end of TWI1. He was vital in helping me see the light and get out of TWI. Now I'm not a Christian? Screw you buddy, I stood by you through it all and you turn your back on me for the biggest day of my life? I would have accepted any reason for him to not do my wedding, but the reason given was CULTish BS. Will the real me walk away? Yes! And the new name is so awkward, I think it's lame. Why even use the words "International" and "Fellowship"? Sound familiar? What was wrong with the old name? Not to mention I don't want to be part of a church that can be pronounced "stiffy". I was already in a cult where the stiffy made the rules. no thanks. But other than that I'm a happy, not bitter and Christian! Glow-ry!

Anyone here ever taught that Goliath was hit in the knee, not the forhead? We were taught that in The Bronx, then I taught it in Manhatten and started a holy war like the neavellites vs. the non navelites. Mind you, I was like 10 years old. Bronx people (circa 1979) were sure it was the knee. The real question is: Who cares? It doesn't change a thing. Silliness at it's finest. Glow-ry!

Happy Ho Ho Relo to all! Glow-ry!

No pressure unless you ask someone you've known for 20 years from CES to officiate your wedding. Then you have to join, attend meetings, buy tapes and pass a test. Of course , if you're already a member then it's all good. Did you know marriage is for Christians ONLY (sorry all you jews and muslims but God doesn't recognize your marriage, ask CES) and you have to be able to prove your Christianity first. Don' tell my wife, she thimks we're married. And that new name is so much MORE culty than CES. Cult is as cult does. Glow-ry!

He was one of the funniest guys ever. And a great example of a marriage, those two. Good people. I used to babysit for them when I was a teenager. Glow-ry!

Mike said: "If you ARE going to read what I wrote, please be well rested (I learned this was important in the wee hours of Sunday this week" He also said that he only skims the replys. I guess that's why he totally ignored me. Mike do you realise how arrogant and condescending you come off? I mean telling people HOW to listen and comprehend? You can't be serious. In fact that's what I've decided. Mike isn't serious. he's one of those people who goes to a chat room and disagrees with the popular opinion even at the risk of contradicting himself and ignoring the arguments of others. This HAS to be a joke. I didn't know there were any VPW supporters left, let alone anyone THIS zealous. It can't be real. It defies logic, the bible, and even VPW himself. OLDIESMAN: I don't recall VP saying you were possesed if you have cancer. But I DID hear him say cancer was a devil spirit. Many times. And if by "chapter and verse" you mean "where in the bible does it say cancer is a devil spirit" it doesn't. If by that you mean "when did VP say that" please don't refer to anything that man made up as "chapter and verse". it makes it sound like VP's words were God breathed. It makes you sound like *GASP* Mike! And i doubt you want that! Mike is a hoax. He cannot be taken seriously. Finally for Mike (and I know that you are skimming so you might not see this and even if you do you won't respond): There's a difference between a guy who gets "lucky" allot and the head of a church telling a vulnarable lay person "God says he will meet all your needs. Sex falls under the catagory of need. So i am going to minister to you, since you don't get sex ever since your divorce" That REALLY happened, ok? VPW twisted the Word of god to get some action. Nice, huh? This is not "99% of men" invading Poland (a really really poor analogy BTW. You DO know who invaded Poland right?) This is a a man of God abusing women in the name of God. It's disgusting and I know me, my friends and the other 99% of men out there would never do such a thing. And there wasn't any summer snow in my backyard and no audible voice. I'm just a regular guy who would NEVER get laid in the name of God, by twisting the bible... Glory! [This message was edited by Georgio Jessio on January 06, 2003 at 17:12.]

Oh I almost forgot: Dr. was not a dr. My skin crawls everytime you call him "Dr.". Pike's Peak man. You can't deny the doctorate was bogus. But I bet you will. I am throughly completly, completly complete. Glory!

wow I just read this entire thread. took me 8 hours, but I have the flu and can't do much of anything else. Mike I'll tell you what I persoanlly know: -VPW propositioned my mother and also drunkenly exposed himself to her. On more than one occasion -VPW once told me when I was about 15 "when it come to girls there's a famous rule called the 5 F's: 1. find em 2. finger em 3. feel em 4. f**k em 5. Forget em These rules do not apply to our sisters in Christ. I don't care what you do with the unbelievers at school" VP gave me the green light to fornicate , but only with the girls at school! -If it snows in the summer someone would have noticed, no matter how freakishly small the storm was. It would have been in the papers, it would be on record at Town Hall. It's not there because it didn't happen. You said you looked deeper into it. PLEASE ellaborate and do so spesificly. -VPW did not invent the hookshot or give Ray Kroch the idea for McDonalds (yes I asked mr. Kroch myself when I met him at Padres game years ago) -VPW was a pervert and liar. Not exactly who my God would chose to be the greatest prophet since Paul. I know Paul was a bad boy himself (Saul) but he repented. Vic would teach one minute and screw someone's wife the next. I know you're gonna disagree but I am telling you the truth from my personal experience, not some rumour. I am throughly completly, completly complete. Glory!

Holy Flashback! I just was reminded, thanks to Karl Kahler's post ,that VP said he was wrong about "Why has't thou forsaken me" But looking back it was in a self serving way. Right before he died he spent allot of time with Ralph and Geer in New England. During this time he had several Corps meetings. At the last one, VERY breifly before his death, he was talking about POP and how one of the things that the Trustees did to shut him out was reject the "new research" that needed to be published to correct errors in PFAL. One of those things was "Why has't thou forsaken me" I cannot believe I forgot about that! I remember it blew my mind that he admitted an error. But looking back he wasn't , IMO, concerned about correcting doctrine. He was trying to make himself look good and secure loalty and maybe even pitty from us. He spent allot of time subtly dissing the Trustees in those last few weeks. On a side note, and speaking of self serving, has anyone ever pondered VP's tomb stone inscription? "I wish I was 1/2 the man I was known to be" Talk about a cop out. He was repenting in a passive way, I think. Admitting his flaws at long last. Trouble is, no one noticed it in that light. We all took it as "wow how HUMBLE of him" ha. I am throughly completly, completly complete. Glory!

as far as the intermediate class: "If your tounge is 30 seconds long, your interpretation should be 30 seconds long" Anyone who speaks two languages knows that some words are longer in one language than another. It would not be a *rule* that your tounge and interpretation are the same length. In fact the opposite is true. example: english: I like bakery bread spainish: Yo me gusto el pan de la panaderia This bothered me at the time but I was too meek to question anything. I am throughly completly, completly complete. Glory!